According to What or Who?

[POI]

Otseng has asserted the following: "God also has many other attributes - love, patient, just, merciful, etc."

For debate: By what standard(s) does one measure these above said attributes of love, patience, being just, and being merciful? In other words, how do we know God actually possesses all these attributes?

[1213]

It's the other way around. The modern person does not usually think this way.

Why then assume the ancient Jews thought so?

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Mae von H in post #70]

Garbage. A string of faithclaims.

As an atheist, materialist and humanist, I say that I think humans evolved, along with other critters, and our morals and ethics are evolved, naturally or 'designed' by us. Which is why they are not too perfect and selfishness and co -operation are a constant conflict.

There is no reason at all to credit that any particular god is anything to do with it, nor to credit the faithclaims of any particular religion or holy book.#


Now, why don't you give me a single, solitary, good and valid reason why I should credit any other hypothesis.

[Mae von H]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #72]

When you start with insulting childish name calling, I don’t read further. It’s apparent there won’t be a mature adult intellectual exchange. The ability to appeal to reason had left so I move on. Sometimes your posts are quite astute and sometimes they devolve into merely lobbing insults. Makes you feel better I assume. Nevertheless, I’m free not to read them and am exercising that privilege.

I used to deal with my misbehaving children in a manner which I will apply now. Your choice of words is not fit to exchange with people. Come back when you’re able to
control yourself and you’ve decided you’re now fit to exchange with people. (We’ll decide if that level of respect has actually been achieved.)

[benchwarmer]

You never heard of veneral disease? Try looking up the plague of syphilis that hit Europe after sailors returned from Haiti. Sexual purity prevented one from getting this. How come you guys never think of the obvious?

I finally found at least one source for this particular line of apologetics. It was so absurd I thought maybe it was AIG, but couldn't find it on there. Finally found it:

https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/ ... led-in-num

It never ceases to amaze me what some Christians will come up with to explain why warriors, who after wiping out an entire town except the virgins they were to keep for themselves, somehow makes any kind of moral sense. Basically, don't focus on all the people just killed or the slavery that's being described, focus on the fact they chose virgins to avoid STDs.

What I'm really curious about is how in the world the warriors determined the girl's virginity. Even today with modern medical knowledge there's no fool proof way to determine that. No, you can't tell based on the state of their hymen:

https://health.osu.edu/health/ob-gyn/my ... 20exercise.

So what did they do, just pick the girls that looked to be young enough? Ick. Maybe God put a small, visible halo over them for easy identification? I mean, God ordered the slaughter and subsequent wife allocation, so He must have had some hand in it? Again, ick....

[POI]

Otseng has asserted the following: "God also has many other attributes - love, patient, just, merciful, etc."

For debate: By what standard(s) does one measure these above said attributes of love, patience, being just, and being merciful? In other words, how do we know God actually possesses all these attributes?

Can you please tell us the answer to your own question? By what standard(s) do you measure the above attributes in anyone?

Logic and reason. When we examine these 4 terms, God's commands do not logically follow. As I told another, take the term "mercy" for example. Would a "merciful" God do the many things he ordered in the OT? Unless you perform mental gymnastics, and redefine these terms, reason and logic do not follow the claims that this expressed God possesses true "mercy", just for starters.

[POI]

You never heard of veneral disease? Try looking up the plague of syphilis that hit Europe after sailors returned from Haiti. Sexual purity prevented one from getting this. How come you guys never think of the obvious?

LOL! Is this why these warriors spared the virgins? I didn't realize these warriors were aware of such STD's? During this bronze age, such afflictions were more apt to be believed to be caused by 'evil'.

[POI]

You point blank refuse to tell us how you know those qualities are present in anyone. Absolutely refuse. Since I wrote you a gentle mail, I am paying attention to learn more about your thinking. Anyway, I will be compliant despite you refusing to do so.

Wrong. See post 75.

God is merciful but not unjust.

Now, you do not bringing any particular example which is disingenuous of you, but as I know all of them, I can answer anyway.

I'm already aware we both know the Bible. This is why you responded here like you have, in bold.

God is also the Judge of all the Earth and in order for there to be justice, there has to be an end of patiently waiting for repentance.

Even from the infants?

God punished those who did wrong and refused point blank to stop doing so.

Even the infants?

Can you see that this is kindness to the victims?

To the infants?

God is very merciful to those who repent.

Can infants repent?

He even waits for them to repent enduring the evil they do to other people for a time. But the victims sometimes cry to Him for justice and an end to their suffering.

How is that possible when he commands the killing of infants?

What you are doing is pointing to the one part of the story ignoring the rest. Do you think a judge who sends a serial killer to jail unjust? Ought he to be merciful and let them out? This is what you are suggesting.

I'm pointing out (the parts) which do not reasonably or logically follow the claims of God's "mercy".

Now, if you ever want to understand how He works you are going to have to make yourself read the whole story, not just the bits that prove what you want Him to be.

I have read the entire story, and my above observation(s) still stand.

You are going to have to make yourself love truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. If you choose to parse out bits so that you can feel free to accuse Him of evil, you will never arrive at understanding. If you want to be God's prosecutor, accusing Him of evil, you belong to the wrong team. You might want to think about that strategy.

It is YOU, who is "parsing out the bits". This is called Christian apologetics. I acknowledge that it's not ALL "bad". Some is "good", some is "bad", some is weird, some is strange, and some does not make logical sense. I'm pointing out the questionable parts, and I'm reading, as you make excuses for them, when they are pointed out.

[POI]

So what did they do, just pick the girls that looked to be young enough? Ick. Maybe God put a small, visible halo over them for easy identification? I mean, God ordered the slaughter and subsequent wife allocation, so He must have had some hand in it? Again, ick....

Maybe you can shed light on this thread?

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... hp?t=38525

[Mae von H]

You never heard of veneral disease? Try looking up the plague of syphilis that hit Europe after sailors returned from Haiti. Sexual purity prevented one from getting this. How come you guys never think of the obvious?

I finally found at least one source for this particular line of apologetics. It was so absurd I thought maybe it was AIG, but couldn't find it on there. Finally found it:

https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/ ... led-in-num

It never ceases to amaze me what some Christians will come up with to explain why warriors, who after wiping out an entire town except the virgins they were to keep for themselves, somehow makes any kind of moral sense. Basically, don't focus on all the people just killed or the slavery that's being described, focus on the fact they chose virgins to avoid STDs.

What I'm really curious about is how in the world the warriors determined the girl's virginity. Even today with modern medical knowledge there's no fool proof way to determine that. No, you can't tell based on the state of their hymen:

https://health.osu.edu/health/ob-gyn/my ... 20exercise.

So what did they do, just pick the girls that looked to be young enough? Ick. Maybe God put a small, visible halo over them for easy identification? I mean, God ordered the slaughter and subsequent wife allocation, so He must have had some hand in it? Again, ick....

I guess you want to think as you do. Nothing will cause you to doubt your chosen position.