Jesus Christ has a God that he worships

[onewithhim]

Jesus said that we all must love Jehovah our God and worship only Him. He stated clearly that his Father was the only true God (John 17:3); he didn't say that we are the only true God. In many places in the Scriptures he calls the Father "my God."

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3, KJV)

"Jesus saith unto her [Mary], Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father, but go to my brethren and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God. (John 20:17, KJV)

"At the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted: My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Mark 15:34, KJV)

"Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall no more go out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is New Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." (Revelation 3:12, KJV)

I think Jesus wants us to recognize that his Father, Jehovah, is God, and he is God's Son. (John 10:36) What do you make of this?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to SiNcE_1985 in post #12]
Thank you for commenting on my post #7. How about #11 and #14?

[onewithhim]

Because Jesus is Thomas' God. He's just not his AMLIGHTY God.

See, that is where you are WRONG, JW.

Rev 1:8
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

This is obviously Jesus
....

Rev 4:8
Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty who was, and is, and is to come.”

Same thing. Obviously Jesus being referred to.

No, it is not "obvious" that Jesus is being referred to as the Almighty. It is Jehovah, the Father, who is referred to there. The Scripture says also that the "first and the last" died. (Rev. 1:17, 18) Almighty God cannot die.

You might notice that "the first and the last" in an Interlinear Bible is not translated from the actual Greek letters. The other "Alpha and Omega" references are translated from the Greek letters. To me this shows the difference between "first and last" and "Alpha and Omega." And all the "Alpha and Omega" references are references to the Father, Jehovah.

[SiNcE_1985]

No, it is not "obvious" that Jesus is being referred to as the Almighty. It is Jehovah, the Father, who is referred to there.

It is quite obvious that it is Jesus, especially when you look at the preceding verse (7).

7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;

Keywords: "Pierce him".

Hmm.

Zech 12:10

“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Who is being referred to here?

JESUS!!

And who was pierced in John 19:34?

34 However, one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.

JESUS!!

Repeat after me, onewithhim...

"JESUS".

I know it is hard to digest...but..

"JESUS"!!

The Scripture says also that the "first and the last" died. (Rev. 1:17, 18) Almighty God cannot die.

Wellll, I understand that your view of death (and what it means to die) is far different than mines.

So, no need in going down that rabbit hole.

At least not now.

You might notice that "the first and the last" in an Interlinear Bible is not translated from the actual Greek letters. The other "Alpha and Omega" references are translated from the Greek letters. To me this shows the difference between "first and last" and "Alpha and Omega." And all the "Alpha and Omega" references are references to the Father, Jehovah.

But Jesus is called Alpha and Omega in Rev 1:8.

No way to wiggle around it.

[onewithhim]

No, it is not "obvious" that Jesus is being referred to as the Almighty. It is Jehovah, the Father, who is referred to there.

It is quite obvious that it is Jesus, especially when you look at the preceding verse (7).

7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;

Keywords: "Pierce him".

Hmm.

Zech 12:10

“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Who is being referred to here?

JESUS!!

And who was pierced in John 19:34?

34 However, one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.

JESUS!!

Repeat after me, onewithhim...

"JESUS".

I know it is hard to digest...but..

"JESUS"!!

The Scripture says also that the "first and the last" died. (Rev. 1:17, 18) Almighty God cannot die.

Wellll, I understand that your view of death (and what it means to die) is far different than mines.

So, no need in going down that rabbit hole.

At least not now.

You might notice that "the first and the last" in an Interlinear Bible is not translated from the actual Greek letters. The other "Alpha and Omega" references are translated from the Greek letters. To me this shows the difference between "first and last" and "Alpha and Omega." And all the "Alpha and Omega" references are references to the Father, Jehovah.

But Jesus is called Alpha and Omega in Rev 1:8.

No way to wiggle around it.

I don't have to wiggle. You cannot say unequivocally that Rev. 1:8 refers to Jesus. I say it refers to Jehovah, the only true God (John 17:3). There is no way you can prove that the verse refers to Jesus. After all, the Revelation was given to us by God. God gave it to Jesus (Rev.1:1), so the Revelation is actually from the mouth of Jehovah God. If He supplied the Revelation to Jesus then it would be a no-brainer that Rev.1:8 is God referring to Himself.

[SiNcE_1985]

I don't have to wiggle. You cannot say unequivocally that Rev. 1:8 refers to Jesus. I say it refers to Jehovah, the only true God (John 17:3). There is no way you can prove that the verse refers to Jesus.

Hmm.

So, take Rev 1:8, and compare it to Rev 20:22.

I want you to read Rev 20:22 and then go back to Rev 1:8..and tell me what is going on.

Or do I need to share the link of the dozens of scriptures in the NT (not including Rev 1:8) that speaks of Jesus as returning/coming...and not the Father.

So yes, I can say unequivocally that Rev 1:8 is referring to Jesus.

Because that is what the NT says throughout.

If you say Rev 1:8 doesn't refer to Jesus within the context of "who is to come", while accepting all the other scriptures which speak of Jesus' return/coming...that is a textbook example of the taxi cab fallacy...and it is just downright bad Bible hermeneutics altogether.

After all, the Revelation was given to us by God. God gave it to Jesus (Rev.1:1), so the Revelation is actually from the mouth of Jehovah God. If He supplied the Revelation to Jesus then it would be a no-brainer that Rev.1:8 is God referring to Himself.

Hmm..so God gave Jesus the revelation, which means that Jesus did not know what was to be revealed, correct?

And after all, Jesus clearly said that the Son does not know the hour, correct (Matt 24:36)?

Yet, John 21:17 tells us that Jesus knows all things..

The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Feed my sheep.

Hmm.

Sounds to me as if Jesus (according to Phil 2:5-9) can willfully give up his divine powers and get it back anytime he wants.

How he does this? I don't know.

I don't profess to know everything about God.

But I do know what the scriptures say.
....

Btw, I'd like to talk to you in private.

Please kindly pm me.

[onewithhim]

I don't have to wiggle. You cannot say unequivocally that Rev. 1:8 refers to Jesus. I say it refers to Jehovah, the only true God (John 17:3). There is no way you can prove that the verse refers to Jesus.

Hmm.

So, take Rev 1:8, and compare it to Rev 20:22.

I want you to read Rev 20:22 and then go back to Rev 1:8..and tell me what is going on.

Or do I need to share the link of the dozens of scriptures in the NT (not including Rev 1:8) that speaks of Jesus as returning/coming...and not the Father.

So yes, I can say unequivocally that Rev 1:8 is referring to Jesus.

Because that is what the NT says throughout.

If you say Rev 1:8 doesn't refer to Jesus within the context of "who is to come", while accepting all the other scriptures which speak of Jesus' return/coming...that is a textbook example of the taxi cab fallacy...and it is just downright bad Bible hermeneutics altogether.

After all, the Revelation was given to us by God. God gave it to Jesus (Rev.1:1), so the Revelation is actually from the mouth of Jehovah God. If He supplied the Revelation to Jesus then it would be a no-brainer that Rev.1:8 is God referring to Himself.

Hmm..so God gave Jesus the revelation, which means that Jesus did not know what was to be revealed, correct?

And after all, Jesus clearly said that the Son does not know the hour, correct (Matt 24:36)?

Yet, John 21:17 tells us that Jesus knows all things..

The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Feed my sheep.

Hmm.

Sounds to me as if Jesus (according to Phil 2:5-9) can willfully give up his divine powers and get it back anytime he wants.

How he does this? I don't know.

I don't profess to know everything about God.

But I do know what the scriptures say.
....

Btw, I'd like to talk to you in private.

Please kindly pm me.

The way you look at it, there is a contradiction there. Jesus doesn't know certain things and yet he knows all things. Hmm. How can that be resolved? I can only think that God gave Jesus the power to know all things that pertain to mankind and what will happen, what is in their hearts, etc., but not when the end will actually come. For Peter to say that he knew all things, those things that Jesus does know would be "all things" to Peter.

Jesus didn't take back his "divine powers" when he went from earth back to heaven. He was subordinate to God and he continues subordinate to God.

"But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3, Revised Standard Version)

[Revelations won]

I post herewith a response to the JW man made doctrines

John 11:22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.

My comment: Christ is here teaching us that if we ask in faith nothing doubting nd such is asked is according to the spirit and not asking amiss that such will be granted.


John 14:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

My comments: Christ is herein teaching us that though our body of flesh and bones shall die, that our spirit body will never die and that our body of “flesh and bones“ will come forth in the resurrection with an immortal body of flesh and bone as was demonstrated by his resurrection.


John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20
For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21
For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

My comment: Christ makes it very clear that he is doing the very works that he has heretofore seen the Father do. ()We are not told how many eons ago the Father has done the very works that Christ has done and is now doing.

25
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26
For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27
And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
30

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

My comments: Christ makes it very clear that even though their physical body is dead, the their spirit body is very much alive and will hear his voice.

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

My comments regarding Revelation 1:8 : In this powerful verse Christ is testifying that he is the very (I am, Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.) So we have the very testimony from Christ himself that he is also the Almighty. My personal testimony is 100% in harmony with his!

You JW’s fail to accept that Jesus Christ is Immanuel or God with us, that Christ is the creator of this earth. That the great creator himself has come down among men into a mortal state as the great exemplar to fulfill his divine mission to perform the mighty atonement for the sins of all mankind, which would then would also allow us to likewise receive an immortal resurrection of our bodies of “flesh and bone” exactly as his body which he so aptly taught his disciples.

You JW’s have created a “man made doctrine” that Jehovah is God the Father.

You JW’s also deny the Holy Ghost who is God’s minister who is a revelator who will teach us ALL THINGS pertaining to God and godliness. By your very position, you relegate you understanding of heavenly things to nothing but your own man made deductive reasoning.



John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

My comment on the above: You JW’s have no priesthood authority and power to do the works Christ is speaking of.


13
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14
If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

My comment: Again I so state that you JW’s have rejected the revelations of heavenly things that are being taught by the Holy Ghost, who as stated in the scriptures may by this power we may learn the truth of all things.


17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18
I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19
Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22
Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24
He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25
These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

My comments: Wherein in JW doctrine do you accept the latter day revelations of the Holy Ghost?

Revelation 14:
6
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

My comments:

If the fullness of the gospel was not lost, then why would there be any need for a heavenly messenger to bring back to earth this “everlasting gospel which was to be be preached to all who live on this earth?


Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

My final comment on this post:

I think it is an understatement that you JW’s reject Jesus Christ,s witness that He is “Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending” that he is also the “Almighty.” As he so testified in Revelation 1:8.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #57]

It is not Jesus who speaks in Revelation 1:8. It is the Father, Jehovah.

After all, it is the Father who gave these words to Jesus to give to John. The Father speaks throughout the book, unless it clearly says that Jesus is speaking.

"The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show ...the things which must soon take place." (Revelation 1:1, NASB)

"This is the revelation which God gave to Jesus Christ...He sent it by means of symbols through His angel, to his slave, John. (21st Century New Testament)

So it is reasonable to view the Revelation as the Father's words to John and those that follow Himself and Christ.