Athanasian Creed - The Man-Made Doctrine

[2timothy316]

For clarity, is the Athanasian Creed found here https://www.crcna.org/welcome/beliefs/c ... sian-creed the accepted belief of the trinity for all trinitarians?
If not what is? Who is reading this creed for the first time? Who considers it to be holy scripture?

The creed ends with "one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully."
If it isn't scripture...How do they have the authority to say such a thing?

[SiNcE_1985]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #60]

Cool, and here...

Take this L with you as you leave.

[onewithhim]

Whatever you need to tell yourself.

Here is what I am telling myself, and you.

I do not believe that belief in the Trinity is necessary for salvation, as the Athanasian Creed seems to suggest.

However, I agree 100% with the Creed's breakdown of what the concept of the Trinity entails, as I am a Trinitarian myself.

I can accept the truth value of X, while also denying the falsehood of Y.

Just still following others I see. Is that how you worship God? "If they do this then I'll do that"...

We all interpret what we read.

That shouldn't be a point that we have to sit here and argue about.

I don't care what you think of the JW doctrine.

And I don't care what you think about my assessment of the Athanasian creed.

I said what I said.

This thread isn't about that.

Yeah, it is. It is exposed hypocrisy.

Your own organization is full of interpretations (and false, at that).

But now you are putting up a front because I made a factual statement that everyone must interpret what they read?

Tsk, tsk.

Start your own thread or add to the hundreds of other threads. Just changing the subject tell me what you're going to reject doesn't make a good defense. Actually its not a defense at all.

I clearly stated my position on the subject, more than once, actually.

And got a few JW jabs in there, as well.

Your responses to what I've been saying makes no sense at all.

It isn't rocket science.

One can believe in the Trinity doctrine while also not believing that salvation requires a belief in it.

Plain and simple.

I will, as soon as I help them uproot the man-made Athanaian Creed. John 4:24 says that God must be worshiped in truth.

And I say amen to that.

But is it saying/suggesting that one needs to have absolutely, positively 100% accurate knowledge of God's ways, or his nature?

No.

Because to have that is to actually be God.

Are you God?

No, you aren't.

So you yourself will be in violation of John 4:24.

God leaves room for finite human beings with finite knowledge and finite understandings...we don't have to get everything right, as that would be a standard that no human being can live up to and we would all be doomed.

Trinitarians have taught me on this thread that the Athanaian Creed isn't scripture. They feel a part of it is false and that to believe it isn't necessary to be saved. All this tells me that its a complete waste of time to consider the Athanaian Creed. Its amazing people spend to much time trying to defend something that at the end of the day is worthless. Well, thanks for your input!

I leave on my understanding of what the Bible say, and if there is an argument against the Trinity, I haven't seen it yet.

Post is too long, placing itself in the form of a rant.

If you haven't seen an argument against the trinity, you haven't read anything on the thread of "Jesus is not God." Kindly check that out.

[2timothy316]

Post is too long, placing itself in the form of a rant.

If you haven't seen an argument against the trinity, you haven't read anything on the thread of "Jesus is not God." Kindly check that out.

There are indeed plenty of threads about the trinity. This thread isn't really about an argument against the trinity but its about addressing it's origin. This thread is asking if the doctrine is man-made and so far what I'm getting from actual trinitarians, it IS man-made and they are completely fine with that. They admit the Athanasian creed has things in it that are not true and that the creed isn't scripture. Thus if it is not scripture, then it is man-made. Why put so much stock and push so hard for an interpretation of scripture that isn't God breathed?

[The Tanager]

There are indeed plenty of threads about the trinity. This thread isn't really about an argument against the trinity but its about addressing it's origin. This thread is asking if the doctrine is man-made and so far what I'm getting from actual trinitarians, it IS man-made and they are completely fine with that. They admit the Athanasian creed has things in it that are not true and that the creed isn't scripture. Thus if it is not scripture, then it is man-made. Why put so much stock and push so hard for an interpretation of scripture that isn't God breathed?

No trinitarian has said (or would say) that the doctrine of the trinity is man-made. No trinitarian has even said that the bulk of what the Athanasian creed claims isn't true. We've claimed that the part about how you must believe it to be saved is not true.

As far as being man-made, what do you mean by that term? False? Something else?

And as far as being God-breathed, what do you mean? Do you think any written interpretation of scripture is God breathed?

[2timothy316]

There are indeed plenty of threads about the trinity. This thread isn't really about an argument against the trinity but its about addressing it's origin. This thread is asking if the doctrine is man-made and so far what I'm getting from actual trinitarians, it IS man-made and they are completely fine with that. They admit the Athanasian creed has things in it that are not true and that the creed isn't scripture. Thus if it is not scripture, then it is man-made. Why put so much stock and push so hard for an interpretation of scripture that isn't God breathed?

No trinitarian has said (or would say) that the doctrine of the trinity is man-made. No trinitarian has even said that the bulk of what the Athanasian creed claims isn't true. We've claimed that the part about how you must believe it to be saved is not true.

As far as being man-made, what do you mean by that term? False? Something else?

And as far as being God-breathed, what do you mean? Do you think any written interpretation of scripture is God breathed?

Question: does the Athansian Creed, the source of the trinity, come from God? Whatever you answer here should answer all of your questions.

[SiNcE_1985]

Post is too long, placing itself in the form of a rant.

I said what I said.

If you haven't seen an argument against the trinity, you haven't read anything on the thread of "Jesus is not God." Kindly check that out.

I've seen enough.

Too much, tbh.

[The Tanager]

Question: does the Athansian Creed, the source of the trinity, come from God? Whatever you answer here should answer all of your questions.

The Athanasian creed speaks about more doctrines than just the Trinity. Regarding the doctrine of the Trinity, it is NOT the source of the Trinity but a reflection of it, from its source, which is the Bible which is from God.

[SiNcE_1985]

[Replying to The Tanager in post #64]

Yeah and notice he said that this thread is about addressing it's (the Trinity's) origin.

The origin of the Trinity is not found in some creed, it is found in the Bible..and the creed is based upon the information received from the Bible.

So, the entire thread is based on a misconception...and is unlikely to recover from that blunder.

[2timothy316]

Question: does the Athansian Creed, the source of the trinity, come from God? Whatever you answer here should answer all of your questions.

The Athanasian creed speaks about more doctrines than just the Trinity. Regarding the doctrine of the Trinity, it is NOT the source of the Trinity but a reflection of it, from its source, which is the Bible which is from God.

We will circle back to where does everyone get their trinity doctrine later.
Can I finally get an answer to ' as a whole is the Athanasian Creed man-made or not'? Don't cut it up into bits a pieces. Once you do that, you're no longer referring to the creed as a whole.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to The Tanager in post #64]

Yeah and notice he said that this thread is about addressing it's (the Trinity's) origin.

The origin of the Trinity is not found in some creed, it is found in the Bible..and the creed is based upon the information received from the Bible.

So, the entire thread is based on a misconception...and is unlikely to recover from that blunder.

Show me where in the Bible the Holy Spirit is called "God." While you're at it, show me where it says that Jesus is "God."

It's almost funny that you can't see---Jesus himself said that his Father alone was God (John 17:3). He referred to the Father as being his God (John 20:17).