Did God restore Israel in 1948?

[dad1]

Israel must be back in the land in the end time according to the bible. Some people suggest that God brought them back, and that they are now fulfilling prophesy such as the desert blooming like a rose etc. Can anyone support that idea? Several denominations do make such claims.

In the end, after the remnant repents and Jesus returns, is when God restores believing Israel to the land. Not, as far as I can tell, in 1948. So, there are good bible teaching preachers that seem to think otherwise (Jack Hibbs, Behold Israel, Jan Markell, James Kaddis, Bret meador, etc etc). The thread is for someone to support their claims. In other threads I have not seen this done yet.

[1213]

I don't think the state of Israel would exist today without God supporting it.

Why do you say this? Where do you perceive Gods support in the State of Israel?

I say it because world seems to be very anti-Jewish. For example majority of Middle-East seems to want Jews driven to Mediterranean sea. I believe they would have been successful already, if God would not be on the side of Israel.

[JehovahsWitness]

I don't think the state of Israel would exist today without God supporting it.

Why do you say this? Where do you perceive Gods support in the State of Israel?

I say it because world seems to be very anti-Jewish. For example majority of Middle-East seems to want Jews driven to Mediterranean sea. I believe they would have been successful already, if God would not be on the side of Israel.

I don't think that surviving oppression in this world is of itself enough to claim the divine backing. The people of black Africa have suffered much at the hand of foreign colonisers to eventually gain their independence, but that does not mean those nations are divinely ordained. The march of world powers means most nations have at one time or another suffered oppression and even the threat of total extermination, some have been wiped out, others through military force or powerful alliances, have survive even thrived.

While surviving against the odds might be an indication of divine support, scripturally this would not be so if the nation ...

i) had no a covenant (legal contract) that established such special national relationswith God [for example the nations of the African continent were not extended any such arrangement - compare Psalm 147:20]
ii) an explicit or implicit declaration that any existing contract was terminate (the Mosaic law covenant between God and the nation if Israel was abolished - Ephesians 2:15)
iii) the lack of evidence that nation worships True God [pagan nations and apostate Israel deviated from the worship of the True God YHWH /Jehovah - Matthew 23:37 ]
iv) behaviours that indicate the nation is part of Satan's political system [engaging in war, politics and the oppression of other peoples] - compare Rev 6:4
v) Failure to recognise and hand over their rulership during these last days to God's chosen representative, namely the risen Christ presently enthroned as the King of God's kingdom. - Psalm 2:6-10

Satan owns "all the kingdoms of this world" and the political state of Isarel is included in that number. Modern Israel has not produced the fruits that indicate they are different to any other nation. On the contrary they have and continue to find security in wars and military conflict in direct opposition to the commands of the Prince of peace.


JW

[JehovahsWitness]

I don't think the state of Israel would exist today without God supporting it.

Why do you say this? Where do you perceive Gods support in the State of Israel?

I say it because world seems to be very anti-Jewish. For example majority of Middle-East seems to want Jews driven to Mediterranean sea. I believe they would have been successful already, if God would not be on the side of Israel.

I don't think that surviving oppression in this world is of itself enough to claim the divine backing. The people of black Africa have suffered much at the hand of foreign colonisers to eventually gain their independence, but that does not mean those nations are divinely ordained. The march of world powers means most nations have at one time or another suffered oppression and even the threat of total extermination, some have been wiped out, others through military force or powerful alliances, have survive even thrived.

While surviving against the odds might be an indication of divine support, scripturally this would not be so if the nation ...

i) had no a covenant (legal contract) that established such special national relationswith God [for example the nations of the African continent were not extended any such arrangement - compare Psalm 147:20]
ii) an explicit or implicit declaration that any existing contract was terminate (the Mosaic law covenant between God and the nation if Israel was abolished - Ephesians 2:15)
iii) the lack of evidence that nation worships True God [pagan nations and apostate Israel deviated from the worship of the True God YHWH /Jehovah - Matthew 23:37 ]
iv) behaviours that indicate the nation is part of Satan's political system [engaging in war, politics and the oppression of other peoples] - compare Rev 6:4
v) Failure to recognise and hand over their rulership during these last days to God's chosen representative, namely the risen Christ presently enthroned as the King of God's kingdom. - Psalm 2:6-10

Satan owns "all the kingdoms of this world" and the political state of Isarel is included in that number. Modern Israel has not produced the fruits that indicate they are different to any other nation. On the contrary they have and continue to find security in wars and military conflict in direct opposition to the commands of the Prince of peace.


JW

[1213]

...
ii) an explicit or implicit declaration that any existing contract was terminate (the Mosaic law covenant between God and the nation if Israel was abolished - Ephesians 2:15)
...

That scripture says:
in His flesh causing to cease the enmity, the Law of the commandments in decrees, that He might in Himself create the two into one new man, making peace,
Ephesians 2:15

I don't think that is the same as God would have withdrawn His support from Israel, especially because it is said:

Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them; for I am Yahweh their God; but I will for their sake remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God. I am Yahweh.
Lev. 26:44-45
It shall happen, when all these things are come on you, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before you, and you shall call them to mind among all the nations, where Yahweh your God has driven you, and shall return to Yahweh your God, and shall obey his voice according to all that I command you this day, you and your children, with all your heart, and with all your soul; that then Yahweh your God will turn your captivity, and have compassion on you, and will return and gather you from all the peoples, where Yahweh your God has scattered you. If [any of] your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of the heavens, from there will Yahweh your God gather you, and from there will he bring you back:
Deut. 30:1-4

Satan owns "all the kingdoms of this world" and the political state of Isarel is included in that number. Modern Israel has not produced the fruits that indicate they are different to any other nation. On the contrary they have and continue to find security in wars and military conflict in direct opposition to the commands of the Prince of peace.

I don't think Satan owns anything. But, many people serve him and does his will, knowingly, or without understanding.

[JehovahsWitness]

EPHESIANS 2:15

By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law ...

I don't think that is the same as God would have withdrawn His support from Israel...

Thats because you fail to recognise the purpose and fonction of the law. I have read enough of your posts to see you are an intelligent and sincere Christian but Paul was trying to explain something about why the law existed and what would happen when it was replaced, listen to him!

Paul explains that those decrees and commandement not only made The nation of Israel stand out (seperate them) from other peoples, it kept them clean and made them Gods special property. As such God put himself under obligation to protect them as his own. The two are inseperable.

DEUTERONOMY 7: 6-11

For you are a holy people to Jehovah your God, and Jehovah your God has chosen you to become his people, his special property,* out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. 7 “It was not because you were the most numerous of all the peoples that Jehovah showed affection for you and chose you,+ for you were the smallest of all the peoples.+ 8 Rather, it was because of Jehovah’s love for you and because he kept the oath that he had sworn to your forefathers+ that Jehovah brought you out with a mighty hand, to redeem you from the house of slavery,+ from the power* of Pharʹaoh king of Egypt. 9 You well know that Jehovah your God is the true God, the faithful God, keeping his covenant and loyal love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commandments.+ 10 But those who hate him he will repay to their face with destruction.+ He will not be slow to deal with those who hate him; he will repay them to their face. 11 Therefore, take care to keep the commandments and the regulations and the judicial decisions that I am commanding you today, by observing them

.


Now look at what Paul explained to the Galatians as to WHY THE LAW EXISTED in the first place ...

GALATIANS 3:23-24 (NKJV)

Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith

In other words the purpose of all those laws (which lifted up the nation and afforded them that special relationship and guaranteed God would protect and support them as a people) was to bring them to Christ. Moses explained that there was nothing secial about the Israelites in themselves... God chose to MAKE THEM SPECIAL because he had promised their forefathers. HOW did he make them special? By giving them his laws. Thus the termination of the covenant (The laws) equaled the termination the benefits that covenant afforded them ( being special)

To illustrate: A marriage contract traditionally involves certain legal obligations. A man may promise to love and provide for his wife and the wife honor and respect her husband. Once they both keep these obligations they enter into a special relationship with excludes all others. They can of course choose to free themselves of these agreed obligations but in doing so they also terminate the exclusive and special relationship. The divorced man no longer has to provide for his wife and the divorcer woman is under no obligation to respect and obey her ex. They can continue as friends if they want but the obligation to support and protect ends.

The abolishment of that law terminated God's obligation to support and protect Israel as a nation.

Once you can understand the above, you can begin to understand why Paul then focused on the Abrahamic promise and the fact that that promise PREDATED the Mosaic law. And you can start to understand what all this means for the descendants of Abraham. In short the law finished, the special relationship that ensured support based on the geneology ENDED but a NEW COVENANT would fill the void which would not be based on genetics replaced it.

This wasnt a divorce. .. it was a death!

EPHESIANS 2:15, 16

By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, in order to make the two groups in union with himself into one new man+ and to make peace, 16 and to reconcile fully both peoples in one body to God through the torture stake,+ because he had killed off the enmity by means of himself.

[Stewardofthemystery]

Israel must be back in the land in the end time according to the bible. Some people suggest that God brought them back, and that they are now fulfilling prophesy such as the desert blooming like a rose etc. Can anyone support that idea? Several denominations do make such claims.

In the end, after the remnant repents and Jesus returns, is when God restores believing Israel to the land. Not, as far as I can tell, in 1948. So, there are good bible teaching preachers that seem to think otherwise (Jack Hibbs, Behold Israel, Jan Markell, James Kaddis, Bret meador, etc etc). The thread is for someone to support their claims. In other threads I have not seen this done yet.

It would be hard for me to imagine that God did not have foreknowledge of Israel becoming a nation again because it is written the powers that be in place both in heaven and earth are all ordained by God.

Romans 13:1-4
King James Version
13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.“

Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:”

[1213]

The abolishment of that law terminated God's obligation to support and protect Israel as a nation.

Sorry, I don't think the law is abolished.

Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. For most assuredly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter{literally, iota} or one tiny pen stroke{or, serif} shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished. Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least command-ments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Matt. 5:17-19

But, I agree that the status of Israel is not based on the law, but on their ancestors did.

Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them; for I am Yahweh their God; but I will for their sake remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God. I am Yahweh.
Lev. 26:44-45

[JehovahsWitness]

The abolishment of that law terminated God's obligation to support and protect Israel as a nation.

Sorry, I don't think the law is abolished.

But that is exactly what Paul said happened. How do explain this?

EPHESIANS 2:15, 16

By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, in order to make the two groups in union with himself into one new man+ and to make peace, 16 and to reconcile fully both peoples in one body to God through the torture stake,+ because he had killed off the enmity by means of himself.

COLOSSIANS 2:13, 14

God .... erased the handwritten document that consisted of decrees and was in opposition to us. He has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the torture stake

ROMANS 10:4

For Christ is the end of the Law, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness

ROMANS 6:15

Are we to commit a sin because we are not under law but under undeserved kindness? Certainly not!

GALATIANS 3:13

Christ purchased us, releasing us from the curse of the Law ...

Notices Paul includes the TEN COMANDEMENTS as examples of the specific laws from which the Jews have been freed ....

ROMANS 7: 6-8

So my brothers, you also were made dead to the Law through the body of the Christ, ... we have been released from the Law, ...7 What, then, are we to say? Is the Law sin? Certainly not! Really, I would not have come to know sin had it not been for the Law. For example, I would not have known covetousness if the Law had not said: “You must not covet.” 8 But sin, finding the opportunity afforded by the commandment, worked out in me covetousness of every sort, for apart from law sin was dead.

[1213]

But that is exactly what Paul said happened. How do explain this?

EPHESIANS 2:15, 16

By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, in order to make the two groups in union with himself into one new man+ and to make peace, 16 and to reconcile fully both peoples in one body to God through the torture stake,+ because he had killed off the enmity by means of himself.

I would read that like this ...he abolished the enmity... ...not the law.

I have understood that, as also Paul says, the law is good. And the idea is that the law would be written in our hearts, as in the promise of the new Covenant. The idea is that the law should not be obeyed because one must do so, but because one understands it is good and wants to freely do so, because loves God.

But we know that the law is good, if a man uses it lawfully, as knowing this, that law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for the sexually immoral, for homosexuals, for slave-traders, for liars, for perjurers, and for any other thing contrary to the sound doctrine;
1 Tim. 1:8-10

“For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days,” says the Lord; “I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be their God, and they will be my people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all will know me, from their least to their greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more.
Heb. 8:10-12 (Jer. 31:31-34)

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

[JehovahsWitness]

.... How do explain this?

EPHESIANS 2:15, 16

By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, in order to make the two groups in union with himself into one new man+ and to make peace, 16 and to reconcile fully both peoples in one body to God through the torture stake,+ because he had killed off the enmity by means of himself.

I would read that like this ...he abolished the enmity... ...not the law.

But that is not even respecting the words on the page: It would leave the appositive * "the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, " without a function, rendering the clause nonsensical.

[ * ] An appositive is a noun or noun phrase that renames a nearby noun. For example : "We were joined for dinner by my boyfriend, Jeff." to say that my boyfriend joined us but JEFF did not, is simply ignoring the function of the words on the page; It also leaves "Jeff" by itself with no visible fonction.

I am not a Greek scholar but I understand and respect the work of those that are, and in this regard the noun phrase ("the Law of commandments consisting in decrees" ) by definition cannot stand alone. Whether the English translators use punctuation or word order, they have consistently applied the verb to BOTH "the emnity" AND "the law", for Paul is simply explaining WHAT "the emnity" is. We can only assume this to be a reflection of the constraints of the language used by the inspired writer.

King James Bible
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

New King James Version
having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,

New American Standard Bible
by abolishing in His flesh the hostility, which is the Law composed of commandments expressed in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two one new person, in this way establishing peace;

NASB 1995
by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

NASB 1977
by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

Legacy Standard Bible
by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might create the two into one new man, making peace,


American Standard Version
having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace;


English Revised Version
having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the twain one new man, so making peace;

New Heart English Bible
having abolished in the flesh the hostility, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man of the two, making peace;

Webster's Bible Translation
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances: to make in himself of two one new man, so making peace;

World English Bible
having abolished in his flesh the hostility, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man of the two, making peace,

Young's Literal Translation
the enmity in his flesh, the law of the commands in ordinances having done away, that the two he might create in himself into one new man, making peace,