Did God restore Israel in 1948?

[dad1]

Israel must be back in the land in the end time according to the bible. Some people suggest that God brought them back, and that they are now fulfilling prophesy such as the desert blooming like a rose etc. Can anyone support that idea? Several denominations do make such claims.

In the end, after the remnant repents and Jesus returns, is when God restores believing Israel to the land. Not, as far as I can tell, in 1948. So, there are good bible teaching preachers that seem to think otherwise (Jack Hibbs, Behold Israel, Jan Markell, James Kaddis, Bret meador, etc etc). The thread is for someone to support their claims. In other threads I have not seen this done yet.

[JehovahsWitness]

Sorry, I don't think the law is abolished.

Then could you please explain what the following passages are saying with regard to the law ?

COLOSSIANS 2:13, 14

God .... erased the handwritten document that consisted of decrees and was in opposition to us. He has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the torture stake

ROMANS 10:4

For Christ is the end of the Law, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness

ROMANS 6:15

Are we to commit a sin because we are not under law but under undeserved kindness? Certainly not!

GALATIANS 3:13

Christ purchased us, releasing us from the curse of the Law ...

Notices Paul includes the TEN COMANDEMENTS as examples of the specific laws from which the Jews have been freed ....

ROMANS 7: 6-8

So my brothers, you also were made dead to the Law through the body of the Christ, ... we have been released from the Law, ...7 What, then, are we to say? Is the Law sin? Certainly not! Really, I would not have come to know sin had it not been for the Law. For example, I would not have known covetousness if the Law had not said: “You must not covet.” 8 But sin, finding the opportunity afforded by the commandment, worked out in me covetousness of every sort, for apart from law sin was dead.

[1213]

Sorry, I don't think the law is abolished.

Then could you please explain what the following passages are saying with regard to the law ? ...

I think the meaning is, before Jesus people obeyed the law, because they had to. They did in against their will, because they were under it and basically forced to do so. After Jesus people are not under the law, meaning, they don't have to do it against their will, they want to live freely according to it, because they understand it is good.

Ending the enmity of the law means, there is not anymore the conflict between people and the law.

You say the law is not valid anymore, so, how do you explain that Jesus said he didn't come to destroy it?

Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. For most assuredly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter{literally, iota} or one tiny pen stroke{or, serif} shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished. Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least command-ments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Matt. 5:17-19

[JehovahsWitness]

Ending the enmity of the law means, there is not anymore the conflict between people and the law.

Firstly Paul did not merely write about ending the emnity of the law , but ending the emnity which IS the law. Notice the King James ....

New King James Version
having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,

In short scripture does not merely speak about ending an effect of the law but ending the law itself. Indeed I would really like a response to post 110 using the actual words in the bible as support viewtopic.php?p=1148360#p1148360

COLOSSIANS 2:13, 14

God .... erased the handwritten document that consisted of decrees and was in opposition to us. He has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the torture stake

ROMANS 10:4

For Christ is the end of the Law, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness

I an genuinely puzzeled how the words "God .... erased the handwritten document..." can be understood that God did not erase the law. How the words " Christ is the end of the Law, " means the law has not ended. These are not rhetorical questions, I am sincerely curious as to how one reads words on the page and understands the exact opposite to what they appear to say.

Please indulge me.

JW

[1213]

...ROMANS 10:4

For Christ is the end of the Law, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness[/color]

I an genuinely puzzeled how the words "God .... erased the handwritten document..." can be understood that God did not erase the law. How the words " Christ is the end of the Law, " means the law has not ended. These are not rhetorical questions, I am sincerely curious as to how one reads words on the page and understands the exact opposite to what they appear to say.

Interesting, for example Green's literal translation says that like this:

For Christ is the end of law for righteousness to everyone that believes.
Romans 10:4

I understand the meaning is, Christ is the end for that people try to become righteous by obeying the law. I think Paul is correct, person doesn't become righteous, by just trying to obey the law.

Paul says that love is the fulfillment of the law. Do you think people should love others as told in the Bible, or is this not valid?

Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not give false testimony," "You shall not covet,"{TR adds "You shall not give false testimony,"} and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love doesn't harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10

[JehovahsWitness]

I understand the meaning is, Christ is the end for that people try to become righteous by obeying the law.

Okay. Now think , REALLY think about what you just said:

I understand the meaning is, Christ is the end for that people try to become righteous by obeying the law. I think Paul is correct, person doesn't become righteous, by just trying to obey the law.

What you said us correct, but what does that imply?

- For those that want to be considered righteous by God the law is no longer the way

- ergo: The law (being the way to be considered righteous ) has ceased in its purpose; it has become obsolete

Out with the old ...

- there is, since Christ a "new" way to obtain a righteous standing for people try to become righteous by obeying the law ( ie . the Jews)

To illustrate: A Jew is observing the Laws on what to eat, keeping the festivals (including the weekly Sabbath) and wearing a blue thread around the hem of his garments. Why? Because this is what God commanded and the only way to obtain a righteous standing before God for a Jew.

Then one day, he meet you, a Christian and you tell him " Christ is the end for that people [The Jews*] try[ing] to become righteous by obeying the law." He respond "Thats me! I what do I have to do if the law is no longer the way to become righteous [biblically imperfect humans dont obtain righteousness , they are attributed a righteous standing in Gods eyes because they love and obey him]. You respond , since the law no longer serves its purpose (namely to become righteous [be counted as a righteous person by God], turn to Christ and leave behind the law [whose purpose has been rendered obsolete ]"

He asks can I still observe a deeply sabbath, grow my heard and avoid eels ? You say, "You can if you like... but it serves no religious purpose [since the purpose of religion is to obtain a righteous standard before God] and your religion no longer serves that purpose. The religion, which is based on these laws, has ended for you Jews the people try to become righteous by obeying the laws

Paul said the Jews have been released from the law. If a prisoner is released why should he choose to return? Only by accepting the reality of the end of the Mosaic law can anyone grasp the full scope of the good news of Christ!

[JehovahsWitness]

Paul says that love is the fulfillment of the law. Do you think people should love others as told in the Bible, or is this not valid?

People should always love othets but are you suggesting that because people should always love others we need to ignore certain scriptures? Paul who wrote entire books on the subject of the law and the Hebrew religious system, should we ignore what the words on the page say because love is a universal principle?

In short are you suggesting that because we must continue to love each other the Mosaic law cannot have been abolished?

The Jews (and even certain first century Christians in Pauls day) could not bear to accept that the entire Mosaic law had been abolished. They held on to certain aspects of it because they felt these laws were needed to please God.

It is for this reason that Paul explained that the essence of what please God (faith and love) PRECEDED the laws. Paul pointed out that Abraham was declared righteous long before the Mosaic law existed and nothing essential would cease with the ABOLISHMENT of the Mosaic law.


I really feel if you can understand this, the revulsion you seem to feel to the sentence" God .... erased"/".. abolished the law" and "the end of the Law" will cease , and you will understand that it does not equate to love, faith or goodness having been abolished.

EPHESIANS 2:15

By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees,.

COLOSSIANS 2:13,

God .... erased the handwritten document that consisted of decrees ...by nailing it to the torture stake

ROMANS 10:4

For Christ is the end of the Law ...

And here the point... If the law is abolished the special relationship the Israelites had with God is abolished and they can ONLY obtain it now through faith in Christ.

JOHN 14:6

Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me

JW

To learn more please go to other posts related to ...

BIBLICAL LAW, THE MOSAIC LAW COVENANT and ...THE ABRAHAMIC CONVENANT

[1213]

People should always love othets but are you suggesting that because people should always love others we need to ignore certain scriptures?

Nice, I agree that we should not ignore any scriptures.

...I really feel if you can understand this, the revulsion you seem to feel to the sentence" God .... erased"/".. abolished the law" and "the end of the Law" will cease , and you will understand that it does not equate to love, faith or goodness having been abolished....

Sorry, I don't think Bible says the law is abolished. It says "he abolished the enmity, the Law " and " the end of law for righteousness".

I think the law is still good and true. People should not murder, steal, lie... ...and if person doesn't brake it, it is a sign of love.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

The difference between old and the new is, in the old time people obeyed the law, because they had to, not because of love. In new people want to obey the law, because they love, not because they must do so.

In any case, I think it is interesting, if the law is not valid, nothing is sin, and then there is no need for saving anyone. It makes Jesus also obsolete then?

[Revelations won]

Did God restore Israel in 1948?

To all respondents,

The most obvious answer is ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Let us get the facts straight. God did not restore “Israel“ in 1948.

“Israel” constitutes all twelve tribes of Israel. In 1948 only one tribe was given a place or nation that was in part of their homeland. This is clearly applied “ONLY” to the tribe of “JUDAH”

A country was established which was eventually named “ISRAEL”’

Wherein is there any account whatever that the other eleven tribes of Israel have had any record of each of them also being gathered as well as the tribe of Judah?

If so wherein is the record? If so how have each of the tribes been identified?

[JehovahsWitness]

Sorry, I don't think Bible says the law is abolished. It says "he abolished the enmity, the Law " ...

This has already been addressed ... why don't you take each grammatical /lexical point in my response and present counterarguement (to my counterargument )

Post 110 --> viewtopic.php?p=1148360#p1148360

This is language, its like maths, it operates according to certain rules . You cant just say a verb does not apply to a certain noun because you dont want it to, you have to recognise the structure the writer used. So explain how, respecting the grammatical structure of the sentence, you come to your conclusion.




JW

[JehovahsWitness]

Sorry, I don't think Bible says the law is abolished. It says ... " the end of law for righteousness".

Can you please address the response to the above , here -->viewtopic.php?p=1148434#p1148434