Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

[POI]

Seems there exists an unresolved topic amongst Christians... Seems as though the way to salvation is not unified among the many in which I engage. I'd wager they all have a case to support their position(s).?.?

For debate: How does one get to Heaven? What is God's criteria for His selection process? Is it by grace alone, belief/faith alone, works alone; or it is a combination of the three? Or is it maybe other? Please, not only present your case, but please also explain why the other asserted methods are incorrect.

[Capbook]

Answer key:

A) Everyone now goes because Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice. All fall short, so Jesus paved the way.
B) You are saved if you have belief/faith
C) You are saved if you perform the desired works/deeds/acts (as specified by the Bible God).
D) B) and C)
E) No one is worthy, so no one goes.
F) Something else?

A) My response mentioned "repentance of the believer," (that is faith). You won't repent if you do not believe in God. And regrets for those unable to believe is the result of conscience which I believe the work of the Holy Spirit.

B) I firmly believe Eph 2:8-10. And to those unable to believe will be judge by their works.

C) Yes repentance is the result to those who have faith except to those unable to believe.

Because Christ is the way, the truth and the life, no one goes to the except through Jesus.

We've already been over this. Most/all Christians will not repent of ALL. Most/all unbelievers will not regret all. Hence, repentance and regret are irrelevant. God makes exceptions based upon 'heart', according to you. Does this mean your answer is F) desired intent = the correct heart?

As I've said to to you before my belief is not confined to your made choices.
My answer is;
B) By God's grace through faith to believers.
C) To those unable to believe.

B) To those who not repent all, who fell but continue to stand through faith and grow spiritually, I believe can avail God's grace thru faith.
C) To those who not regret all, who fell but continue to do good works through conscience, HS working, I believe can avail God's grace.

And no grace to those who have no faith/do bad works continually, no repent/no regret, no grow spiritually/no conscience.

[POI]

Answer key:

A) Everyone now goes because Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice. All fall short, so Jesus paved the way.
B) You are saved if you have belief/faith
C) You are saved if you perform the desired works/deeds/acts (as specified by the Bible God).
D) B) and C)
E) No one is worthy, so no one goes.
F) Something else?

A) My response mentioned "repentance of the believer," (that is faith). You won't repent if you do not believe in God. And regrets for those unable to believe is the result of conscience which I believe the work of the Holy Spirit.

B) I firmly believe Eph 2:8-10. And to those unable to believe will be judge by their works.

C) Yes repentance is the result to those who have faith except to those unable to believe.

Because Christ is the way, the truth and the life, no one goes to the except through Jesus.

We've already been over this. Most/all Christians will not repent of ALL. Most/all unbelievers will not regret all. Hence, repentance and regret are irrelevant. God makes exceptions based upon 'heart', according to you. Does this mean your answer is F) desired intent = the correct heart?

As I've said to to you before my belief is not confined to your made choices.
My answer is;
B) By God's grace through faith to believers.
C) To those unable to believe.

B) To those who not repent all, who fell but continue to stand through faith and grow spiritually, I believe can avail God's grace thru faith.
C) To those who not regret all, who fell but continue to do good works through conscience, HS working, I believe can avail God's grace.

And no grace to those who have no faith/do bad works continually, no repent/no regret, no grow spiritually/no conscience.

Then the criteria is not being a Christian, or repenting, or regretting. It is instead the "heart." God judges one's heart. And yet, I do not see where the Bible says this? And even if it does state this somewhere, you would need to ignore other verse(s) which conflict.

Further, after reading your argument, it seems you are stating the Bible is saying... In regard to salvation, "it depends". Meaning, the standard depends on the circumstances. But the Bible does not really drive this point home either, if at all?

[Capbook]

Answer key:

A) Everyone now goes because Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice. All fall short, so Jesus paved the way.
B) You are saved if you have belief/faith
C) You are saved if you perform the desired works/deeds/acts (as specified by the Bible God).
D) B) and C)
E) No one is worthy, so no one goes.
F) Something else?

A) My response mentioned "repentance of the believer," (that is faith). You won't repent if you do not believe in God. And regrets for those unable to believe is the result of conscience which I believe the work of the Holy Spirit.

B) I firmly believe Eph 2:8-10. And to those unable to believe will be judge by their works.

C) Yes repentance is the result to those who have faith except to those unable to believe.

Because Christ is the way, the truth and the life, no one goes to the except through Jesus.

We've already been over this. Most/all Christians will not repent of ALL. Most/all unbelievers will not regret all. Hence, repentance and regret are irrelevant. God makes exceptions based upon 'heart', according to you. Does this mean your answer is F) desired intent = the correct heart?

As I've said to to you before my belief is not confined to your made choices.
My answer is;
B) By God's grace through faith to believers.
C) To those unable to believe.

B) To those who not repent all, who fell but continue to stand through faith and grow spiritually, I believe can avail God's grace thru faith.
C) To those who not regret all, who fell but continue to do good works through conscience, HS working, I believe can avail God's grace.

And no grace to those who have no faith/do bad works continually, no repent/no regret, no grow spiritually/no conscience.

Then the criteria is not being a Christian, or repenting, or regretting. It is instead the "heart." God judges one's heart. And yet, I do not see where the Bible says this? And even if it does state this somewhere, you would need to ignore other verse(s) which conflict.

Further, after reading your argument, it seems you are stating the Bible is saying... In regard to salvation, "it depends". Meaning, the standard depends on the circumstances. But the Bible does not really drive this point home either, if at all?

Did I mention "heart" in my latest reply?

Yes it depends to the faith/good works, cause I don't believe in OSAS.
You say, "but the Bible does not really drive this point home either, if at all"?
So my belief differs to what you understand what the Bible is saying about how to be save.
May I know that?

[POI]

Did I mention "heart" in my latest reply?

Yes it depends to the faith/good works, cause I don't believe in OSAS.
You say, "but the Bible does not really drive this point home either, if at all"?
So my belief differs to what you understand what the Bible is saying about how to be save.
May I know that?

I'm going to cut right to the chase here. In reading your response(s) about what it take to be saved, it would read like this.

Q: Dear Jesus, what does it take to be saved?
A: Well my son, it depends.

And yet, when Jesus is plainly asked, this is not his response.

What has seemed to be ruled out, is that you do not need to be a Christian, since all Christians believe and possess faith. Further, the Bible also alludes to your "works" falling short. So, if it's not belief/faith, nor, is it your deeds/works/acts, than WHAT is it? According to you, it is the person's intent or heart. Meaning, if they are "well-meaning" enough.

In applying the answer key, would you then choose F)?

[TRANSPONDER]

As our pal 1213 convincingly set out, inb his view, works rather than Faith (in Jesus as Paul etc makes clear) is what saves. So the only reason why Christianity is even needed is that Jesus -belief makes one do good works. more so, it would seem than other religions, or one would have to find the religion that makes one do good works, or even invent one.

Or even a secularist religion that made people do good works. But the belief clearly is that one has to be a Christian to be motivated to do Good, and heaven forbid that good works done by a Christian should be given extra marks for belonging to the right religion, as that would be Faith rather than Works again.

That, as well as a debate about whether being a Christian really did make for better behaviour without extra marks for doing Christian things like going to church or praying, was where it ended as i recall.

But the fact is that belief persists (even amongst atheists) is that being a churchgoer does make people better and behave better (1). This of course is open to discussion, like whether religious faith makes one behave better or become more hypocritical "I'm as much a sinner, but I am forgiven" Which is Faith rather than works again.

(1) the required watching Tracie Harris 'religious family values' vid. questions this as 'stellar PR', rather actual better behaviour.

[Capbook]

Did I mention "heart" in my latest reply?

Yes it depends to the faith/good works, cause I don't believe in OSAS.
You say, "but the Bible does not really drive this point home either, if at all"?
So my belief differs to what you understand what the Bible is saying about how to be save.
May I know that?

I'm going to cut right to the chase here. In reading your response(s) about what it take to be saved, it would read like this.

Q: Dear Jesus, what does it take to be saved?
A: Well my son, it depends.

And yet, when Jesus is plainly asked, this is not his response.

What has seemed to be ruled out, is that you do not need to be a Christian, since all Christians believe and possess faith. Further, the Bible also alludes to your "works" falling short. So, if it's not belief/faith, nor, is it your deeds/works/acts, than WHAT is it? According to you, it is the person's intent or heart. Meaning, if they are "well-meaning" enough.

In applying the answer key, would you then choose F)?

If there's a choice G) Eph 2:8-10 to believers and Romans 2:14 to not able to believe. I'll go for it.
As I've said again my belief is not confined to your specific made choices.

[TRANSPONDER]

As said before, it is not about what you personally (appealing to Bibletext or not, as though that proved anything) want to go for and believe, but what evidence - based and logical arguments you can post.

[Capbook]

As said before, it is not about what you personally (appealing to Bibletext or not, as though that proved anything) want to go for and believe, but what evidence - based and logical arguments you can post.

The thread is about Grace/Belief/Works, and how to be save. I believe it refer to Biblical teaching.

[TRANSPONDER]

As said before, it is not about what you personally (appealing to Bibletext or not, as though that proved anything) want to go for and believe, but what evidence - based and logical arguments you can post.

The thread is about Grace/Belief/Works, and how to be save. I believe it refer to Biblical teaching.

The forum is a debate forum, not about posting your beliefs and no arguments or evidence for. Preaching without anything more is against Tos.

[POI]

If there's a choice G) Eph 2:8-10 to believers and Romans 2:14 to not able to believe. I'll go for it.
As I've said again my belief is not confined to your specific made choices.

Option F) is already listed as 'something else'. You want me to mark you down for that option?