Paradise on Earth

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 9280
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1275 times
Been thanked: 331 times

Paradise on Earth

Post #1

Post by onewithhim »

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

Capbook
Scholar
Posts: 368
Joined: Sat May 04, 2024 7:12 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #3041

Post by Capbook »

onewithhim wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 8:50 pm
Wootah wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 7:04 am
Capbook wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 4:19 am
Wootah wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 8:28 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #3035]

Does God put new wine in old wineskins?
I believe God would, to those who overcomes God will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God. And as EDNT define paradise as mentioned in Rev 2:7;
"for all the victor sayings have an eschatological thrust, and the fruit of the tree of life is a privilege of the last paradise (cf. Jerusalem in 22:1-2, Jerusalem being the center of the renewed earth).
(from Theological Dictionary of the New Testament)
I think we are born again.

I think God will create a new heaven and a new earth as well.
You think that God will destroy the heavens and the earth? What would be the reason? There is nothing wrong with the heavens, and the earth can rejuvenate itself from all the pollution and destruction. Our earth is beautiful and will be even more so after Armageddon.
The earth was destroyed together with the wicked, Satan and demons in verse 10.
The rest of the dead in verse 5 are the wicked, (nations in verse 8) that will be resurrected after 1,000 years.
Those who take part of the first resurrection in verse 6 are the saints shall reign with Christ in 1,000 years.
After 1,000 years Satan will be released and deceived the nations (rest of the dead in verse 5 resurrected)
to compassed (battle) the saints and the Holy City (New Jerusalem) which come down from heaven.
All of them will be destroyed by the lake of fire in verse 10 that also destroyed the earth.
Revelation 21:1-4 follows. New heaven and new earth, no more tears, death etc, for the former things have passed away.

Rev 20:5-10
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
KJV

Revelation 21:1-4
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.(NKJV)
Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."(NKJV)

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 9280
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1275 times
Been thanked: 331 times

Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #3042

Post by onewithhim »

Capbook wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 3:45 am
onewithhim wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 8:50 pm
Wootah wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 7:04 am
Capbook wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 4:19 am
Wootah wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 8:28 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #3035]

Does God put new wine in old wineskins?
I believe God would, to those who overcomes God will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God. And as EDNT define paradise as mentioned in Rev 2:7;
"for all the victor sayings have an eschatological thrust, and the fruit of the tree of life is a privilege of the last paradise (cf. Jerusalem in 22:1-2, Jerusalem being the center of the renewed earth).
(from Theological Dictionary of the New Testament)
I think we are born again.

I think God will create a new heaven and a new earth as well.
You think that God will destroy the heavens and the earth? What would be the reason? There is nothing wrong with the heavens, and the earth can rejuvenate itself from all the pollution and destruction. Our earth is beautiful and will be even more so after Armageddon.
The earth was destroyed together with the wicked, Satan and demons in verse 10.
Where does it say that the earth was destroyed? (What verse 10 are you referring to?)

kjw47
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1096
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:37 pm
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 95 times

Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #3043

Post by kjw47 »

Wootah wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 7:04 am
Capbook wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 4:19 am
Wootah wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 8:28 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #3035]

Does God put new wine in old wineskins?
I believe God would, to those who overcomes God will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God. And as EDNT define paradise as mentioned in Rev 2:7;
"for all the victor sayings have an eschatological thrust, and the fruit of the tree of life is a privilege of the last paradise (cf. Jerusalem in 22:1-2, Jerusalem being the center of the renewed earth).
(from Theological Dictionary of the New Testament)
I think we are born again.

I think God will create a new heaven and a new earth as well.

The new earth= Gods kingdom rule in full control, no more mortal govts ever( Dan 2:44) no more satan influences. All things made back to perfection.
New heavens = Gods kingdom rule in full control forever.) Satan and his angels were booted out to the earth in 1914( never allowed back in) at the war in heaven( Rev 6:2) Jesus received his crown. Rev 12 explains the war in heaven and the birth of Gods kingdom rule in heaven. Time is short.
The prophecy at Daniel 4 points clearly to Rev 6 being 1914--It says a king will sit on Gods throne after 2520 days of the removal of the last king( 607 bce)--no king sat on the throne after 2520 days, so applying the bible rule-a year for a day--607 + 2520( years)= 1914--Rev 6:4 proves its accurate--Peace will be taken from the(earth=not a single war a world war=ww1. Mr Russell said in 1879--peace will be taken from the earth in 1914. From God revealing that prophecy only through him.

Capbook
Scholar
Posts: 368
Joined: Sat May 04, 2024 7:12 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #3044

Post by Capbook »

onewithhim wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 7:16 pm
Capbook wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 3:45 am
onewithhim wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 8:50 pm
Wootah wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 7:04 am
Capbook wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 4:19 am
Wootah wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 8:28 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #3035]

Does God put new wine in old wineskins?
I believe God would, to those who overcomes God will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God. And as EDNT define paradise as mentioned in Rev 2:7;
"for all the victor sayings have an eschatological thrust, and the fruit of the tree of life is a privilege of the last paradise (cf. Jerusalem in 22:1-2, Jerusalem being the center of the renewed earth).
(from Theological Dictionary of the New Testament)
I think we are born again.

I think God will create a new heaven and a new earth as well.
You think that God will destroy the heavens and the earth? What would be the reason? There is nothing wrong with the heavens, and the earth can rejuvenate itself from all the pollution and destruction. Our earth is beautiful and will be even more so after Armageddon.
The earth was destroyed together with the wicked, Satan and demons in verse 10.
Where does it say that the earth was destroyed? (What verse 10 are you referring to?)
Satan deceive the nations (wicked) in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore, will devoured by fire from heaven and the lake of fire in verse 10, can it not destroy the earth?
So why there is new heaven and earth in Rev 21? And in verse 4, God shall wipe all tears, no more death, sorrow, no more crying, pain, for the former things are passed away.
Barnes understand the underlined below as destroyed.

Revelation 20:10
[And shall be tormented day and night forever] Compare the notes on Rev 14:11. All the great enemies of the church are destroyed, and henceforward there is to be no array of hostile forces; no combination of malignant powers against the kingdom of God. The gospel triumphs; the way is prepared for the final consummation.
(from Barnes' Notes, Electronic Database Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 9280
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1275 times
Been thanked: 331 times

Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #3045

Post by onewithhim »

Capbook wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 3:34 am
onewithhim wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 7:16 pm
Capbook wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 3:45 am
onewithhim wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 8:50 pm
Wootah wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 7:04 am
Capbook wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 4:19 am
Wootah wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 8:28 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #3035]

Does God put new wine in old wineskins?
I believe God would, to those who overcomes God will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God. And as EDNT define paradise as mentioned in Rev 2:7;
"for all the victor sayings have an eschatological thrust, and the fruit of the tree of life is a privilege of the last paradise (cf. Jerusalem in 22:1-2, Jerusalem being the center of the renewed earth).
(from Theological Dictionary of the New Testament)
I think we are born again.

I think God will create a new heaven and a new earth as well.
You think that God will destroy the heavens and the earth? What would be the reason? There is nothing wrong with the heavens, and the earth can rejuvenate itself from all the pollution and destruction. Our earth is beautiful and will be even more so after Armageddon.
The earth was destroyed together with the wicked, Satan and demons in verse 10.
Where does it say that the earth was destroyed? (What verse 10 are you referring to?)
Satan deceive the nations (wicked) in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore, will devoured by fire from heaven and the lake of fire in verse 10, can it not destroy the earth?
So why there is new heaven and earth in Rev 21? And in verse 4, God shall wipe all tears, no more death, sorrow, no more crying, pain, for the former things are passed away.
Barnes understand the underlined below as destroyed.

Revelation 20:10
[And shall be tormented day and night forever] Compare the notes on Rev 14:11. All the great enemies of the church are destroyed, and henceforward there is to be no array of hostile forces; no combination of malignant powers against the kingdom of God. The gospel triumphs; the way is prepared for the final consummation.
(from Barnes' Notes, Electronic Database Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
You ADDED something to the verses! Nowhere does it actually say that the earth was destroyed. The "new heaven and new earth" does not mean being replaced, as the earth and heavens having been destroyed. The earth we have now is made new because all the wickedness is gone from it and it can rejuvenate itself with the aid now of God's true worshipers who are alive after Armageddon and have made it to the new system of things. The new heavens could not be the literal heavens because the universe has done nothing wrong either and need not be destroyed.

The deeper meaning of the phrase actually means that the new heavens is a new government by Jesus Christ over the earth, and the new earth is a new society of people living on the earth. People have been referred to when saying "the earth," such as at Genesis 11:1. So a new "earth" would mean a different set of people inhabiting the earth.

Capbook
Scholar
Posts: 368
Joined: Sat May 04, 2024 7:12 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #3046

Post by Capbook »

onewithhim wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 10:53 am
Capbook wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 3:34 am
onewithhim wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 7:16 pm
Capbook wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 3:45 am
onewithhim wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 8:50 pm
Wootah wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 7:04 am
Capbook wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 4:19 am
Wootah wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 8:28 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #3035]

Does God put new wine in old wineskins?
I believe God would, to those who overcomes God will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God. And as EDNT define paradise as mentioned in Rev 2:7;
"for all the victor sayings have an eschatological thrust, and the fruit of the tree of life is a privilege of the last paradise (cf. Jerusalem in 22:1-2, Jerusalem being the center of the renewed earth).
(from Theological Dictionary of the New Testament)
I think we are born again.

I think God will create a new heaven and a new earth as well.
You think that God will destroy the heavens and the earth? What would be the reason? There is nothing wrong with the heavens, and the earth can rejuvenate itself from all the pollution and destruction. Our earth is beautiful and will be even more so after Armageddon.
The earth was destroyed together with the wicked, Satan and demons in verse 10.
Where does it say that the earth was destroyed? (What verse 10 are you referring to?)
Satan deceive the nations (wicked) in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore, will devoured by fire from heaven and the lake of fire in verse 10, can it not destroy the earth?
So why there is new heaven and earth in Rev 21? And in verse 4, God shall wipe all tears, no more death, sorrow, no more crying, pain, for the former things are passed away.
Barnes understand the underlined below as destroyed.

Revelation 20:10
[And shall be tormented day and night forever] Compare the notes on Rev 14:11. All the great enemies of the church are destroyed, and henceforward there is to be no array of hostile forces; no combination of malignant powers against the kingdom of God. The gospel triumphs; the way is prepared for the final consummation.
(from Barnes' Notes, Electronic Database Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
You ADDED something to the verses! Nowhere does it actually say that the earth was destroyed. The "new heaven and new earth" does not mean being replaced, as the earth and heavens having been destroyed. The earth we have now is made new because all the wickedness is gone from it and it can rejuvenate itself with the aid now of God's true worshipers who are alive after Armageddon and have made it to the new system of things. The new heavens could not be the literal heavens because the universe has done nothing wrong either and need not be destroyed.

The deeper meaning of the phrase actually means that the new heavens is a new government by Jesus Christ over the earth, and the new earth is a new society of people living on the earth. People have been referred to when saying "the earth," such as at Genesis 11:1. So a new "earth" would mean a different set of people inhabiting the earth.
When fire came down from heaven Rev 20:9, and lake of fire that will destroy the devil and others, (v10) It is clear that this will happen on earth. See 2 Pet 3:10, elements will melt due to fervent heat and also burned up the earth. And see Barnes' exegesis of Rev 21:1, mentioned fire and making new heaven and new earth.

2 Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 21:1
[And I saw a new heaven and a new earth] Such a heaven and earth that they might properly be called new; such transformations, and such changes in their appearance, that they seemed to be just created. He does not say that they were created now, or anew; that the old heavens and earth were annihilated; but all that he says is, that there were such changes that they seemed to be new. If the earth is to be renovated by fire, such a renovation will give an appearance to the globe as if it were created anew, and might be attended with such an apparent change in the heavens that they might be said to be new.

[For the first heaven and the first earth were passed away] They had passed away by being changed, and a renovated universe had taken their place.
(from Barnes' Notes)

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 9280
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1275 times
Been thanked: 331 times

Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #3047

Post by onewithhim »

Capbook wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 4:36 am
onewithhim wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 10:53 am
Capbook wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 3:34 am
onewithhim wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 7:16 pm
Capbook wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 3:45 am
onewithhim wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 8:50 pm
Wootah wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 7:04 am
Capbook wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 4:19 am
Wootah wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 8:28 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #3035]

Does God put new wine in old wineskins?
I believe God would, to those who overcomes God will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God. And as EDNT define paradise as mentioned in Rev 2:7;
"for all the victor sayings have an eschatological thrust, and the fruit of the tree of life is a privilege of the last paradise (cf. Jerusalem in 22:1-2, Jerusalem being the center of the renewed earth).
(from Theological Dictionary of the New Testament)
I think we are born again.

I think God will create a new heaven and a new earth as well.
You think that God will destroy the heavens and the earth? What would be the reason? There is nothing wrong with the heavens, and the earth can rejuvenate itself from all the pollution and destruction. Our earth is beautiful and will be even more so after Armageddon.
The earth was destroyed together with the wicked, Satan and demons in verse 10.
Where does it say that the earth was destroyed? (What verse 10 are you referring to?)
Satan deceive the nations (wicked) in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore, will devoured by fire from heaven and the lake of fire in verse 10, can it not destroy the earth?
So why there is new heaven and earth in Rev 21? And in verse 4, God shall wipe all tears, no more death, sorrow, no more crying, pain, for the former things are passed away.
Barnes understand the underlined below as destroyed.

Revelation 20:10
[And shall be tormented day and night forever] Compare the notes on Rev 14:11. All the great enemies of the church are destroyed, and henceforward there is to be no array of hostile forces; no combination of malignant powers against the kingdom of God. The gospel triumphs; the way is prepared for the final consummation.
(from Barnes' Notes, Electronic Database Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
You ADDED something to the verses! Nowhere does it actually say that the earth was destroyed. The "new heaven and new earth" does not mean being replaced, as the earth and heavens having been destroyed. The earth we have now is made new because all the wickedness is gone from it and it can rejuvenate itself with the aid now of God's true worshipers who are alive after Armageddon and have made it to the new system of things. The new heavens could not be the literal heavens because the universe has done nothing wrong either and need not be destroyed.

The deeper meaning of the phrase actually means that the new heavens is a new government by Jesus Christ over the earth, and the new earth is a new society of people living on the earth. People have been referred to when saying "the earth," such as at Genesis 11:1. So a new "earth" would mean a different set of people inhabiting the earth.
When fire came down from heaven Rev 20:9, and lake of fire that will destroy the devil and others, (v10) It is clear that this will happen on earth. See 2 Pet 3:10, elements will melt due to fervent heat and also burned up the earth. And see Barnes' exegesis of Rev 21:1, mentioned fire and making new heaven and new earth.

2 Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 21:1
[And I saw a new heaven and a new earth] Such a heaven and earth that they might properly be called new; such transformations, and such changes in their appearance, that they seemed to be just created. He does not say that they were created now, or anew; that the old heavens and earth were annihilated; but all that he says is, that there were such changes that they seemed to be new. If the earth is to be renovated by fire, such a renovation will give an appearance to the globe as if it were created anew, and might be attended with such an apparent change in the heavens that they might be said to be new.

[For the first heaven and the first earth were passed away] They had passed away by being changed, and a renovated universe had taken their place.
(from Barnes' Notes)
I won't laugh. The whole universe needs to be renovated?? It does not, just as the earth doesn't need to be destroyed. It is the wicked people that will be destroyed. The "earth" stands for a society of people, as we can see at Genesis 11:1. The "heavens" stands for governments of humans which will be eradicated. 2 Peter 3:10 has a much deeper meaning than what you are saying. Again, "ungodly men" will be destroyed, not the earth (2 Peter 3:7). The physical earth was not destroyed in Noah's day, and Jesus likened the end times to Noah's day (Matthew 24:37). It makes sense for wicked people to be destroyed, rather than the literal earth, and then the earth can heal from what they have done to it.

Another version of 2Peter 3:10 renders "the works therein shall be burned up" as the works therein will be revealed, or as a footnote in the NASB says, "its works will be discovered." Not really the meaning many people think of when reading this verse. "Burned up" is not the only rendering of that verse, and "revealed" and "discovered" implies the exposure of men's evil works for what they are.

Capbook
Scholar
Posts: 368
Joined: Sat May 04, 2024 7:12 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #3048

Post by Capbook »

onewithhim wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 5:18 pm
Capbook wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 4:36 am
onewithhim wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 10:53 am
Capbook wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 3:34 am
onewithhim wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 7:16 pm
Capbook wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 3:45 am
onewithhim wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 8:50 pm
Wootah wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 7:04 am
Capbook wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 4:19 am
Wootah wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 8:28 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #3035]

Does God put new wine in old wineskins?
I believe God would, to those who overcomes God will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God. And as EDNT define paradise as mentioned in Rev 2:7;
"for all the victor sayings have an eschatological thrust, and the fruit of the tree of life is a privilege of the last paradise (cf. Jerusalem in 22:1-2, Jerusalem being the center of the renewed earth).
(from Theological Dictionary of the New Testament)
I think we are born again.

I think God will create a new heaven and a new earth as well.
You think that God will destroy the heavens and the earth? What would be the reason? There is nothing wrong with the heavens, and the earth can rejuvenate itself from all the pollution and destruction. Our earth is beautiful and will be even more so after Armageddon.
The earth was destroyed together with the wicked, Satan and demons in verse 10.
Where does it say that the earth was destroyed? (What verse 10 are you referring to?)
Satan deceive the nations (wicked) in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore, will devoured by fire from heaven and the lake of fire in verse 10, can it not destroy the earth?
So why there is new heaven and earth in Rev 21? And in verse 4, God shall wipe all tears, no more death, sorrow, no more crying, pain, for the former things are passed away.
Barnes understand the underlined below as destroyed.

Revelation 20:10
[And shall be tormented day and night forever] Compare the notes on Rev 14:11. All the great enemies of the church are destroyed, and henceforward there is to be no array of hostile forces; no combination of malignant powers against the kingdom of God. The gospel triumphs; the way is prepared for the final consummation.
(from Barnes' Notes, Electronic Database Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
You ADDED something to the verses! Nowhere does it actually say that the earth was destroyed. The "new heaven and new earth" does not mean being replaced, as the earth and heavens having been destroyed. The earth we have now is made new because all the wickedness is gone from it and it can rejuvenate itself with the aid now of God's true worshipers who are alive after Armageddon and have made it to the new system of things. The new heavens could not be the literal heavens because the universe has done nothing wrong either and need not be destroyed.

The deeper meaning of the phrase actually means that the new heavens is a new government by Jesus Christ over the earth, and the new earth is a new society of people living on the earth. People have been referred to when saying "the earth," such as at Genesis 11:1. So a new "earth" would mean a different set of people inhabiting the earth.
When fire came down from heaven Rev 20:9, and lake of fire that will destroy the devil and others, (v10) It is clear that this will happen on earth. See 2 Pet 3:10, elements will melt due to fervent heat and also burned up the earth. And see Barnes' exegesis of Rev 21:1, mentioned fire and making new heaven and new earth.

2 Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 21:1
[And I saw a new heaven and a new earth] Such a heaven and earth that they might properly be called new; such transformations, and such changes in their appearance, that they seemed to be just created. He does not say that they were created now, or anew; that the old heavens and earth were annihilated; but all that he says is, that there were such changes that they seemed to be new. If the earth is to be renovated by fire, such a renovation will give an appearance to the globe as if it were created anew, and might be attended with such an apparent change in the heavens that they might be said to be new.

[For the first heaven and the first earth were passed away] They had passed away by being changed, and a renovated universe had taken their place.
(from Barnes' Notes)
I won't laugh. The whole universe needs to be renovated?? It does not, just as the earth doesn't need to be destroyed. It is the wicked people that will be destroyed. The "earth" stands for a society of people, as we can see at Genesis 11:1. The "heavens" stands for governments of humans which will be eradicated. 2 Peter 3:10 has a much deeper meaning than what you are saying. Again, "ungodly men" will be destroyed, not the earth (2 Peter 3:7). The physical earth was not destroyed in Noah's day, and Jesus likened the end times to Noah's day (Matthew 24:37). It makes sense for wicked people to be destroyed, rather than the literal earth, and then the earth can heal from what they have done to it.

Another version of 2Peter 3:10 renders "the works therein shall be burned up" as the works therein will be revealed, or as a footnote in the NASB says, "its works will be discovered." Not really the meaning many people think of when reading this verse. "Burned up" is not the only rendering of that verse, and "revealed" and "discovered" implies the exposure of men's evil works for what they are.
We will visit lexicons to define what burned up means.
Strongs' define "burned up" to burn down, consume wholly.
EDNT define it as, "in an apocalyptic image of the end".
And Thayer define it as burn up, consume by fire.

NT:2618
from NT:2596 and NT:2545; to burn down (to the ground), i.e. consume wholly:
KJV - burn (up, utterly).
( New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. )

NT:2618
in an apocalyptic image of the end
(from Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament )

NT:2618 katakaioo): to burn up, consume by fire
(from Thayer's Greek Lexicon)


2 Peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.
NIV
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
NASB
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief; and in that day the heavens will be rolled up with a great noise, and the substance of the earth will be changed by violent heat, and the world and everything in it will be burned up.
(Bible in Basic English)

And even NIV, NASB and Bible in Basic English does not agree with your interpretation.

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21512
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 814 times
Been thanked: 1150 times
Contact:

Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #3049

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Capbook wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2024 2:34 am We will visit lexicons to define what burned up means.
You do better'or visit a dictionary to find out what the word literal / symbolic means.
Jesus and the bible writers often spoke in illustative or symbolic terms, for example The song of Solomon speaks of love like a burning flame. Love is not literally a little fire, it is an emotion
.

Anybody that fails to grasp the notion of something not being literal cannot even begin to properly understand the bible.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
onewithhim
Savant
Posts: 9280
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
Location: Norwich, CT
Has thanked: 1275 times
Been thanked: 331 times

Re: Paradise on Earth

Post #3050

Post by onewithhim »

Capbook wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2024 2:34 am
onewithhim wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 5:18 pm
Capbook wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 4:36 am
onewithhim wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 10:53 am
Capbook wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 3:34 am
onewithhim wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 7:16 pm
Capbook wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 3:45 am
onewithhim wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 8:50 pm
Wootah wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 7:04 am
Capbook wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 4:19 am

I believe God would, to those who overcomes God will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God. And as EDNT define paradise as mentioned in Rev 2:7;
"for all the victor sayings have an eschatological thrust, and the fruit of the tree of life is a privilege of the last paradise (cf. Jerusalem in 22:1-2, Jerusalem being the center of the renewed earth).
(from Theological Dictionary of the New Testament)
I think we are born again.

I think God will create a new heaven and a new earth as well.
You think that God will destroy the heavens and the earth? What would be the reason? There is nothing wrong with the heavens, and the earth can rejuvenate itself from all the pollution and destruction. Our earth is beautiful and will be even more so after Armageddon.
The earth was destroyed together with the wicked, Satan and demons in verse 10.
Where does it say that the earth was destroyed? (What verse 10 are you referring to?)
Satan deceive the nations (wicked) in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore, will devoured by fire from heaven and the lake of fire in verse 10, can it not destroy the earth?
So why there is new heaven and earth in Rev 21? And in verse 4, God shall wipe all tears, no more death, sorrow, no more crying, pain, for the former things are passed away.
Barnes understand the underlined below as destroyed.

Revelation 20:10
[And shall be tormented day and night forever] Compare the notes on Rev 14:11. All the great enemies of the church are destroyed, and henceforward there is to be no array of hostile forces; no combination of malignant powers against the kingdom of God. The gospel triumphs; the way is prepared for the final consummation.
(from Barnes' Notes, Electronic Database Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
You ADDED something to the verses! Nowhere does it actually say that the earth was destroyed. The "new heaven and new earth" does not mean being replaced, as the earth and heavens having been destroyed. The earth we have now is made new because all the wickedness is gone from it and it can rejuvenate itself with the aid now of God's true worshipers who are alive after Armageddon and have made it to the new system of things. The new heavens could not be the literal heavens because the universe has done nothing wrong either and need not be destroyed.

The deeper meaning of the phrase actually means that the new heavens is a new government by Jesus Christ over the earth, and the new earth is a new society of people living on the earth. People have been referred to when saying "the earth," such as at Genesis 11:1. So a new "earth" would mean a different set of people inhabiting the earth.
When fire came down from heaven Rev 20:9, and lake of fire that will destroy the devil and others, (v10) It is clear that this will happen on earth. See 2 Pet 3:10, elements will melt due to fervent heat and also burned up the earth. And see Barnes' exegesis of Rev 21:1, mentioned fire and making new heaven and new earth.

2 Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 21:1
[And I saw a new heaven and a new earth] Such a heaven and earth that they might properly be called new; such transformations, and such changes in their appearance, that they seemed to be just created. He does not say that they were created now, or anew; that the old heavens and earth were annihilated; but all that he says is, that there were such changes that they seemed to be new. If the earth is to be renovated by fire, such a renovation will give an appearance to the globe as if it were created anew, and might be attended with such an apparent change in the heavens that they might be said to be new.

[For the first heaven and the first earth were passed away] They had passed away by being changed, and a renovated universe had taken their place.
(from Barnes' Notes)
I won't laugh. The whole universe needs to be renovated?? It does not, just as the earth doesn't need to be destroyed. It is the wicked people that will be destroyed. The "earth" stands for a society of people, as we can see at Genesis 11:1. The "heavens" stands for governments of humans which will be eradicated. 2 Peter 3:10 has a much deeper meaning than what you are saying. Again, "ungodly men" will be destroyed, not the earth (2 Peter 3:7). The physical earth was not destroyed in Noah's day, and Jesus likened the end times to Noah's day (Matthew 24:37). It makes sense for wicked people to be destroyed, rather than the literal earth, and then the earth can heal from what they have done to it.

Another version of 2Peter 3:10 renders "the works therein shall be burned up" as the works therein will be revealed, or as a footnote in the NASB says, "its works will be discovered." Not really the meaning many people think of when reading this verse. "Burned up" is not the only rendering of that verse, and "revealed" and "discovered" implies the exposure of men's evil works for what they are.
We will visit lexicons to define what burned up means.
Strongs' define "burned up" to burn down, consume wholly.
EDNT define it as, "in an apocalyptic image of the end".
And Thayer define it as burn up, consume by fire.

NT:2618
from NT:2596 and NT:2545; to burn down (to the ground), i.e. consume wholly:
KJV - burn (up, utterly).
( New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. )

NT:2618
in an apocalyptic image of the end
(from Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament )

NT:2618 katakaioo): to burn up, consume by fire
(from Thayer's Greek Lexicon)


2 Peter 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.
NIV
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
NASB
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief; and in that day the heavens will be rolled up with a great noise, and the substance of the earth will be changed by violent heat, and the world and everything in it will be burned up.
(Bible in Basic English)

And even NIV, NASB and Bible in Basic English does not agree with your interpretation.
As I said, "burned up" can be translated as "discovered" or "revealed." The NASB has a note in the margin saying that very thing. Did you read the note in the margin?

Jesus said that the last days will be like the days of Noah. The earth was deluged with water, but was not destroyed. The same will occur in the end. The "ungodly men" will be what is destroyed, just not by water.

Your NIV even said instead of "burned up" the meaning is "laid bare". That goes along with "discovered" or "revealed."

Post Reply