JESUS IS NOT GOD

[onewithhim]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Capbook in post #1589]

The Word is God:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

And God is a Spirit:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jesus is the Word made flesh:

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God is a Spirit, and Jesus is flesh, so Jesus is not God, but a man:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Before I go to your quoted verses, can you addressed Heb 1:8, the word of the Father that addressed Jesus as God?

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. (Hebrews 1:8)

This speaks to the future when the Word will rule forever over the earth which He created.

It actually must read, "Thy throne is God." See post #1588. And do you forget that Jesus hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, once all enemies have been placed under his feet? (I Corinthians 15:24-28)

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #1589]

The Word is God:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

And God is a Spirit:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jesus is the Word made flesh:

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God is a Spirit, and Jesus is flesh, so Jesus is not God, but a man:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Before I go to your quoted verses, can you addressed Heb 1:8, the word of the Father that addressed Jesus as God?

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. (Hebrews 1:8)

This speaks to the future when the Word will rule forever over the earth which He created.

It actually must read, "Thy throne is God." See post #1588. And do you forget that Jesus hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, once all enemies have been placed under his feet? (I Corinthians 15:24-28)

I did offer you a challenge, I suppose you missed to read it. It's below.
Do you agree to settle this Heb 1:8, as what majority Bible version understand it. Not just a few?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Capbook in post #1589]

The Word is God:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

And God is a Spirit:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jesus is the Word made flesh:

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God is a Spirit, and Jesus is flesh, so Jesus is not God, but a man:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Before I go to your quoted verses, can you addressed Heb 1:8, the word of the Father that addressed Jesus as God?

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. (Hebrews 1:8)

This speaks to the future when the Word will rule forever over the earth which He created.

It actually must read, "Thy throne is God." See post #1588. And do you forget that Jesus hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, once all enemies have been placed under his feet? (I Corinthians 15:24-28)

I did offer you a challenge, I suppose you missed to read it. It's below.
Do you agree to settle this Heb 1:8, as what majority Bible version understand it. Not just a few?

I answered that. The majority of Bible versions' take on that are wrong. You haven't said anything about my post #1588.

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #1589]

The Word is God:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

And God is a Spirit:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jesus is the Word made flesh:

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God is a Spirit, and Jesus is flesh, so Jesus is not God, but a man:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Before I go to your quoted verses, can you addressed Heb 1:8, the word of the Father that addressed Jesus as God?

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. (Hebrews 1:8)

This speaks to the future when the Word will rule forever over the earth which He created.

It actually must read, "Thy throne is God." See post #1588. And do you forget that Jesus hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, once all enemies have been placed under his feet? (I Corinthians 15:24-28)

I did offer you a challenge, I suppose you missed to read it. It's below.
Do you agree to settle this Heb 1:8, as what majority Bible version understand it. Not just a few?

I answered that. The majority of Bible versions' take on that are wrong. You haven't said anything about my post #1588.

And even the prior verse 3 says Jesus is God.
Barnes and Adam Clark believes that Jesus is equal with Father and of the same essence with the Father.

Hebrews 1:3
The drift of the argument is, to show his dignity as "he has spoken to us" (Heb 1:1), and not in the period antecedent to his incarnation. It is to show his claims to our reverence as sent from God-the last and greatest of the messengers which God bas sent to man. But, then it is a description of him "as he actually is" - the incarnate Son of God; the equal of the Father in human flesh;
(from Barnes' Notes)

Hebrews 1:3
From these words it is evident:
1. That the apostle states Jesus Christ to be of the same essence with the Father, as the
apaugasma or proceeding splendour, must be the same with the augasma, or inherent splendour,
2. That Christ, though proceeding from the Father, is of the same essence; for if one
augee, or splendour, produce another
augee, or splendour, the produced splendour must be of the same essence with that which produces it.
(from Adam Clarke's Commentary)

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Capbook in post #1589]

The Word is God:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

And God is a Spirit:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jesus is the Word made flesh:

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God is a Spirit, and Jesus is flesh, so Jesus is not God, but a man:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Before I go to your quoted verses, can you addressed Heb 1:8, the word of the Father that addressed Jesus as God?

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. (Hebrews 1:8)

This speaks to the future when the Word will rule forever over the earth which He created.

It actually must read, "Thy throne is God." See post #1588. And do you forget that Jesus hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, once all enemies have been placed under his feet? (I Corinthians 15:24-28)

I did offer you a challenge, I suppose you missed to read it. It's below.
Do you agree to settle this Heb 1:8, as what majority Bible version understand it. Not just a few?

I answered that. The majority of Bible versions' take on that are wrong. You haven't said anything about my post #1588.

And even the prior verse 3 says Jesus is God.

No it does not say that at all. How do you get that out of what the verse actually says? Jesus is the express image of God's person, not God. An image is not the thing that is reflected. And Jesus sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on High, which is God. So he could not sit down next to himself.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Capbook in post #1589]

The Word is God:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

And God is a Spirit:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jesus is the Word made flesh:

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God is a Spirit, and Jesus is flesh, so Jesus is not God, but a man:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Before I go to your quoted verses, can you addressed Heb 1:8, the word of the Father that addressed Jesus as God?

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. (Hebrews 1:8)

This speaks to the future when the Word will rule forever over the earth which He created.

It actually must read, "Thy throne is God." See post #1588. And do you forget that Jesus hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, once all enemies have been placed under his feet? (I Corinthians 15:24-28)

I did offer you a challenge, I suppose you missed to read it. It's below.
Do you agree to settle this Heb 1:8, as what majority Bible version understand it. Not just a few?

I answered that. The majority of Bible versions' take on that are wrong. You haven't said anything about my post #1588.

And even the prior verse 3 says Jesus is God.
Barnes and Adam Clark believes that Jesus is equal with Father and of the same essence with the Father.

Hebrews 1:3
The drift of the argument is, to show his dignity as "he has spoken to us" (Heb 1:1), and not in the period antecedent to his incarnation. It is to show his claims to our reverence as sent from God-the last and greatest of the messengers which God bas sent to man. But, then it is a description of him "as he actually is" - the incarnate Son of God; the equal of the Father in human flesh;
(from Barnes' Notes)

Who has spoken to us in verse 1? It is God, not Jesus. In verse two it states that God has spoken to us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things. There is nothing to tell us that Jesus is the equal of the Father. If Jesus is God, why would he have to be appointed by anyone? He would already have the privilege. Someone's imagination has taken off into left field.

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #1589]

The Word is God:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

And God is a Spirit:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jesus is the Word made flesh:

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God is a Spirit, and Jesus is flesh, so Jesus is not God, but a man:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Before I go to your quoted verses, can you addressed Heb 1:8, the word of the Father that addressed Jesus as God?

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. (Hebrews 1:8)

This speaks to the future when the Word will rule forever over the earth which He created.

It actually must read, "Thy throne is God." See post #1588. And do you forget that Jesus hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, once all enemies have been placed under his feet? (I Corinthians 15:24-28)

I did offer you a challenge, I suppose you missed to read it. It's below.
Do you agree to settle this Heb 1:8, as what majority Bible version understand it. Not just a few?

I answered that. The majority of Bible versions' take on that are wrong. You haven't said anything about my post #1588.

And even the prior verse 3 says Jesus is God.
Barnes and Adam Clark believes that Jesus is equal with Father and of the same essence with the Father.

Hebrews 1:3
The drift of the argument is, to show his dignity as "he has spoken to us" (Heb 1:1), and not in the period antecedent to his incarnation. It is to show his claims to our reverence as sent from God-the last and greatest of the messengers which God bas sent to man. But, then it is a description of him "as he actually is" - the incarnate Son of God; the equal of the Father in human flesh;
(from Barnes' Notes)

Who has spoken to us in verse 1? It is God, not Jesus. In verse two it states that God has spoken to us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things. There is nothing to tell us that Jesus is the equal of the Father. If Jesus is God, why would he have to be appointed by anyone? He would already have the privilege. Someone's imagination has taken off into left field.

You did not address verse 3's understanding of Barnes and Clark that describes Jesus as equal of the Father.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Capbook in post #1589]

The Word is God:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

And God is a Spirit:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jesus is the Word made flesh:

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God is a Spirit, and Jesus is flesh, so Jesus is not God, but a man:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Before I go to your quoted verses, can you addressed Heb 1:8, the word of the Father that addressed Jesus as God?

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. (Hebrews 1:8)

This speaks to the future when the Word will rule forever over the earth which He created.

It actually must read, "Thy throne is God." See post #1588. And do you forget that Jesus hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, once all enemies have been placed under his feet? (I Corinthians 15:24-28)

I did offer you a challenge, I suppose you missed to read it. It's below.
Do you agree to settle this Heb 1:8, as what majority Bible version understand it. Not just a few?

I answered that. The majority of Bible versions' take on that are wrong. You haven't said anything about my post #1588.

And even the prior verse 3 says Jesus is God.
Barnes and Adam Clark believes that Jesus is equal with Father and of the same essence with the Father.

Hebrews 1:3
The drift of the argument is, to show his dignity as "he has spoken to us" (Heb 1:1), and not in the period antecedent to his incarnation. It is to show his claims to our reverence as sent from God-the last and greatest of the messengers which God bas sent to man. But, then it is a description of him "as he actually is" - the incarnate Son of God; the equal of the Father in human flesh;
(from Barnes' Notes)

Who has spoken to us in verse 1? It is God, not Jesus. In verse two it states that God has spoken to us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things. There is nothing to tell us that Jesus is the equal of the Father. If Jesus is God, why would he have to be appointed by anyone? He would already have the privilege. Someone's imagination has taken off into left field.

You did not address verse 3's understanding of Barnes and Clark that describes Jesus as equal of the Father.

Yes I did, on one of these threads that you participated in. I got a little tired of repeating myself on every thread. Barnes' and Clark's opinions don't jive with the truth of the matter. I see you don't want to address my post above.

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #1589]

The Word is God:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

And God is a Spirit:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jesus is the Word made flesh:

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

God is a Spirit, and Jesus is flesh, so Jesus is not God, but a man:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Before I go to your quoted verses, can you addressed Heb 1:8, the word of the Father that addressed Jesus as God?

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. (Hebrews 1:8)

This speaks to the future when the Word will rule forever over the earth which He created.

It actually must read, "Thy throne is God." See post #1588. And do you forget that Jesus hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, once all enemies have been placed under his feet? (I Corinthians 15:24-28)

I did offer you a challenge, I suppose you missed to read it. It's below.
Do you agree to settle this Heb 1:8, as what majority Bible version understand it. Not just a few?

I answered that. The majority of Bible versions' take on that are wrong. You haven't said anything about my post #1588.

And even the prior verse 3 says Jesus is God.
Barnes and Adam Clark believes that Jesus is equal with Father and of the same essence with the Father.

Hebrews 1:3
The drift of the argument is, to show his dignity as "he has spoken to us" (Heb 1:1), and not in the period antecedent to his incarnation. It is to show his claims to our reverence as sent from God-the last and greatest of the messengers which God bas sent to man. But, then it is a description of him "as he actually is" - the incarnate Son of God; the equal of the Father in human flesh;
(from Barnes' Notes)

Who has spoken to us in verse 1? It is God, not Jesus. In verse two it states that God has spoken to us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things. There is nothing to tell us that Jesus is the equal of the Father. If Jesus is God, why would he have to be appointed by anyone? He would already have the privilege. Someone's imagination has taken off into left field.

You did not address verse 3's understanding of Barnes and Clark that describes Jesus as equal of the Father.

Yes I did, on one of these threads that you participated in. I got a little tired of repeating myself on every thread. Barnes' and Clark's opinions don't jive with the truth of the matter. I see you don't want to address my post above.

You state that in verse 1 and 2 "there is nothing to tell us that Jesus is the equal of the Father". But in verse 3 there is.
"Adam Clarke's commentary is a valuable resource for Christians seeking a deeper understanding of the Scriptures". (quoted online.)
"Charles Spurgeon recommended Barnes' notes, calling them “Thoroughly good.”(quote online)

Is it not good to seek deeper understanding of the Scriptures?

[onewithhim]

Before I go to your quoted verses, can you addressed Heb 1:8, the word of the Father that addressed Jesus as God?

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. (Hebrews 1:8)

This speaks to the future when the Word will rule forever over the earth which He created.

It actually must read, "Thy throne is God." See post #1588. And do you forget that Jesus hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, once all enemies have been placed under his feet? (I Corinthians 15:24-28)

I did offer you a challenge, I suppose you missed to read it. It's below.
Do you agree to settle this Heb 1:8, as what majority Bible version understand it. Not just a few?

I answered that. The majority of Bible versions' take on that are wrong. You haven't said anything about my post #1588.

And even the prior verse 3 says Jesus is God.
Barnes and Adam Clark believes that Jesus is equal with Father and of the same essence with the Father.

Hebrews 1:3
The drift of the argument is, to show his dignity as "he has spoken to us" (Heb 1:1), and not in the period antecedent to his incarnation. It is to show his claims to our reverence as sent from God-the last and greatest of the messengers which God bas sent to man. But, then it is a description of him "as he actually is" - the incarnate Son of God; the equal of the Father in human flesh;
(from Barnes' Notes)

Who has spoken to us in verse 1? It is God, not Jesus. In verse two it states that God has spoken to us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things. There is nothing to tell us that Jesus is the equal of the Father. If Jesus is God, why would he have to be appointed by anyone? He would already have the privilege. Someone's imagination has taken off into left field.

You did not address verse 3's understanding of Barnes and Clark that describes Jesus as equal of the Father.

Yes I did, on one of these threads that you participated in. I got a little tired of repeating myself on every thread. Barnes' and Clark's opinions don't jive with the truth of the matter. I see you don't want to address my post above.

You state that in verse 1 and 2 "there is nothing to tell us that Jesus is the equal of the Father". But in verse 3 there is.
"Adam Clarke's commentary is a valuable resource for Christians seeking a deeper understanding of the Scriptures". (quoted online.)
"Charles Spurgeon recommended Barnes' notes, calling them “Thoroughly good.”(quote online)

Is it not good to seek deeper understanding of the Scriptures?

That's what I say to you.

There is not anything in verse 3 to indicate that the Father and Son are equal. It says that Jesus is the exact representation of the Father, the Father's image. An image is not the thing that it is reflecting. And Jesus sat down at his Father's right hand, his Father being called "the Majesty." It is clear that Jesus is subordinate to the Father. This doesn't take anything away from Jesus. Being the Son of God is a high honor. He is just not God, but God's reflection.