Daniel Vision vs Constantine the Great

[mms20102]

Across my Biblical studies in the old testament there is a chapter named Daniel and this chapter has some visions that's supposed to represent the future events to come and in most of the time those visions are represented in real Historic facts, in this post I would like to discuss the vision of Daniel 7 https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Daniel-Chapter-7/
So I will make 4 main points in this post:

1- The 4 beasts
2- The 10 horns
3- The small horn
4- The time after the small horn

First point is the 4 beasts no one will had different interpretation of the beasts other than the 4 empires, 1- Babylon 2- Persian 3- Greek 4- Roman

Second point is the 10 horns.

23-Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24-And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

The Hakham Saadia Gaon said in his Book
The ten could be :
1- The greatest emperors.
2- The greatest fathers ( The earliest Emperors )
3- The greatest one of each family.
If we take any of the above conditions only 10 emperors will remain.

In my opinion they are the 10 emperors that conquered Jerusalem and killed both monotheists and Trinitarians and they are ten starting from Nero up to Diocletian 305 not just my humble opinion but also the opinion of many Christian theologians.

Now the small Horn

24 - and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

The small horn here should be also an emperor from the Romans and after 10 emperors and he shall conquer three and say great things against God and will be different from those 10 and the one matching the vision is Constantine the Great.
Constantine the Great in 313 made the Edict of Milan which declared tolerance for Christianity in the Roman Empire, he began to favor Christianity beginning in 312, finally becoming a Christian and being baptised by either Eusebius of Nicomedia an Arian bishop or Pope Saint Sylvester which is maintained by the Catholic Church and the Coptic Orthodox Church. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great).
he eliminated 3 emperors

In his book History of Christian Church, Philip Schaff mentioned

With his every victory, over his pagan rivals, Galerius, Maxentius, and Licinius, his personal leaning to Christianity and his confidence in the magic power of the sign of the cross increased; yet he did not formally renounce heathenism, and did not receive baptism until, in 337, he was laid upon the bed of his death

(https://worthychristianbooks.com/histor ... an-empire/)

The very brightest period of his reign is stained with gross crimes, which even the spirit of the age and the policy of an absolute monarch cannot excuse. After having reached, upon the bloody path of war, the goal of his ambition, the sole possession of the empire, yea, in the very year in which he summoned the great council of Nicaea, he ordered the execution of his conquered rival and brother-in-law, Licinius, in breach of a solemn promise of mercy (324). Not satisfied with this, he caused soon afterwards, from political suspicion, the death of the young Licinius, his nephew, a boy of hardly eleven years. But the worst of all is the murder of his eldest son, Crispus, in 326

Also in their book (The Complete Book of When and Where) E. Michael Rusten · Sharon O. Rusten wrote

But there was a darker side to Constantine. In 326, he had his wife, the sister of Maxentius, and one son executed under suspicious circumstances. He also never relinquished his position as chief priest of the pagan state religion, and his coins proclaimed his allegiance to the sun god. He delayed Christian baptism until shortly before his death.

https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/m ... nstantine/

His conversion was not accompanied by a sharp break with his former paganism. Rather, a transition is discernible from the worship of the divine Sun to the service of the one true Christian God. When, in 321, he made the first day of the week a holiday, he described it as the day of the sun (but so do Christians today!).

https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/m ... rly-church

What Constantine did about Christmas further suggests he had Christianity in mind. Early Christians, of course, had no information that would help the, calculate the date of Christ's birth. The earliest evidence for the observance of December 25 as the birthday of Christ appears in the Philocalian Calendar, composed at Rome in 336. For many years this date was observed only in the west ; the eastern churchs observed Jan 6, Epiphany. Curiously, pagan holidays lay behind both of these dates. December 25 was the Natalis Soli Invicti, the birthday of the Unconquered Sun. Jan 6 was the feast of Dionysus.

so regarding the quotations above we can say for sure the small horn is Constantine the Great

Now before going to 4th point we need to highlight some points
1- His converting to Christianity was political issue
2- He eliminated monotheists and declared trinitarians
3- He was never baptized until his death
4- He killed many of his family members
5- He mixed Christianity and paganism
6- He killed anyone owned Arian books


Now we move to point 4, the point that Christians ,Muslims and other theologians have interpreted differently

He will speak words against the Most High [God] and wear down the saints of the Most High, and he will intend to change the times and the law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, [two] times, and half a time [three and one-half years].

https://biblehub.com/daniel/7-25.htm

we need to ask first who ended the Ruling of Constantine and his followers, and the answer is clear, Muslims ended the ruling of Constantine and his followers over Jerusalem ( Kingdom of God). Constantine and his followers reigned over Jerusalem from 305 up 636 means 331 years which is by lunar years 640 and which is almost 3.5 portions of time ( 1 portion = 100 years )

This post was nothing but a personal view to the vision.

Edit Important note: -
Main researcher ( Ahmed Spea )
The post is a modified English version of the main research.

[GoldenCup]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #119]

Please answer this question:
If the Harlot is DESTROYED by the 10 crowned Horns on the SEA BEAST, how is it she is seen riding the "image of the beast" which supposedly comes AFTER the Sea beast?

[JehovahsWitness]

If the Harlot is DESTROYED by the 10 crowned Horns on the SEA BEAST, how is it she is seen riding the "image of the beast" which supposedly comes AFTER the Sea beast?

I don't believe that the HARLOT is destroyed by the 10 crowned Horns on the SEA BEAST, she is I believe, destroyed by the ten uncrowned horns on the IMAGE BEAST.




Your question is based on an unproven premise, namely that the harlot is indeed killed by the sea beast, and is thus circular. Please review --> post #106

[GoldenCup]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #122]

Simply stating that you have no answer would be enough. Will you concede the possibility that the Scarlet beast in Rev. 17 isn't the IMAGE of the Sea beast, but in actuality is the Sea beast of Rev.13? and we're being shown two different stages/timeframes of this Scarlet Sea Beast?

Your question is based on an unproven premise, namely that the harlot is indeed killed by the sea beast, and is thus circular. Please review --> post #106

Really? I thought I posted all the scriptures that prove that the 10 crowned horns are on the Sea beast, which represent the 10 horns having authority as kings with the sea beast, and then they destroy the Harlot. I guess you didn't read those...

I guess I will end my side of the discussion here. Thank you JW for taking the time to discuss bible prophecy with me. Iron sharpens iron.

Be blessed and peace be with you.

GC

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #122]

Simply stating that you have no answer would be enough.

Simply not posting circular questions would be enough.

. The reason you don't see [crowns on the ] horns on the SCARLET BEAST in Rev. 17, is because the scene where she sits on the scarlet beast happens PRIOR to the horns being crowned on the Sea beast.

This assumes that she is indeed sitting on the SEA BEAST .


]

... the "proof"/ conclusion => [ that the scarlet beast isnt the IMAGE beast] depends on the premise [that she is sitting on the SEA beast ] CONCLUSION Circular reasoning.

[JehovahsWitness]

. Will you concede the possibility that the Scarlet beast in Rev. 17 isn't the IMAGE of the Sea beast, but in actuality is the Sea beast of Rev.13?

While that, of course remains a possibility, given the facts it, in my opinion, would be scripturally and contextually illogical and contradictory, and thus not a sound conclusion to come to.

For supporting scriptural evidence for the above --> see post #106

NOTE : KEY: What the Beasts represent (sees post --> # 129 )

[GoldenCup]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #125]

So the "proof"/ conclusion => [ that the scarlet beast isnt the IMAGE beast] depends on the premise [that she is sitting on the SEA beast ] CONCLUSION Circular reasoning.

Let's not be disingenuous by attacking strawman.
"What is the straw man fallacy of manipulation? This fallacy occurs when, in attempting to refute another person's argument, you address only a weak or distorted version of it."

You have the harlot appearing after she's destroyed. Fallacious reasoning. Until you can sort that out, your theory is invalidated. Reposting your refuted articels and images a thousand times isn't going to change that.

[JehovahsWitness]

You have the harlot appearing after she's destroyed.

This is an untrue statement. I did not present anything in any of my posts which amount to "harlot appearing after she's destroyed" , I can only presume your erroneous assumption is based on your supperimposing your own interpretation of the chronology of events onto something I have written.

In either case your misunderstanding is your own and claim no ownership of it. Is that understood?


Clarification below ...

[JehovahsWitness]

To clarify :

1. A crowned SEA BEAST emerges from the sea. There is no way to know when this sea beast receieved its crowns but we can reasonably assume it was upon its creation by the Dragon.

2. Another beast , an EARTH BEAST emerges from the earth.

3. The EARTH BEAST makes a similar, but not identical third beast ¤ , an IMAGE of the sea beast

4. The HARLOT is first seen [ * ] riding a beast. We can reasonably assume the beast to be the IMAGE BEAST. It (The image beast) has seven heads, ten horns but no crowns

5. At a certain point during this ride, the "ten kings" on the on the image beast' s head, give their power to the (uncrowned) IMAGE BEAST for a short time

NOTE: The horns on the IMAGE BEAST represent "ten kings" , whose the kingdoms did not yet exist in John's day but would exist during the time of the fulfimment of the revelation visions - see Rev 17:12

6. The IMAGE BEAST then uses this additional authority to turn on the HARLOT on its back and destroy her.

¤ Different colour, no crowns but the same seven heads and ten horns

[ * ] The revelation gives no indication when chronologically the HARLOT mounted the IMAGE BEAST but it obviously must have been after the IMAGE BEAST was created. It is conceivable she mounted the image beast AFTER it reemerged from the abyss

NOTE : For An OVERVIEW and rundown of the key players and events of REVELATION CHAPTERS 13 &17 see KEY: post --> # 129 )

[JehovahsWitness]

BIBLICAL SYMBOLES OF 20TH & 21ST CENTURY REALITIES

What do they represent?

DRAGON : Satan the Devil

• THE SEA BEAST: World's political system

• THE TEN HORNS/KINGS : The various souvereign states

• THE SEVEN HEADS: The successive world governments*

• THE EARTH BEAST: The Anglo-American world power

• THE IMAGE / SCARLET BEAST: The United Nations

• THE TEN KINGS ON THE IMAGE BEAST: The various souvereign states in existence post 1945

• THE HARLOT: All the World's false Religions

* that play a role in persecuting God's people

KEY EVENTS

• THE EARTH BEAST CREATES THE IMAGE BEAST : The Anglo-American world power plays a key role in setting up the League of Nation (later re-named the United Nations) - 1920

• THE ABYSSING AND REEMERGENCE OF IMAGE / SCARLET BEAST : The League of Nation is "inactivated" only to be reactivated in a new form as the UNITED NATIONS some years later 1945 (ses NOTE below)

• THE RIDE OF THE HARLOT : The relationship between organised [false] religion and the United Nations circa 1945 onwards

• THE SCARLET [IMAGE] BEAST DESROYS THE HARLOT : The United Nation eventually receives the authority inferred on it by the member states to attack and destroy organised religion future event

NOTE: The SCARLET /IMAGE BEAST is prophecied to go into an abysses (meaning cease activity for a period of time). This "period of inactivity" was between 1939-1945/6

"... the League entered on the very active, if not always very successful, existence which ended in fact with the outbreak of World War II in 1939, though its formal demise did not take place until April 1946.26" - https://www.britannica.com/topic/League-of-Nations

FURTHER READING : The Book of Revelation​—What Does It Mean?
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... evelation/

[JehovahsWitness]

INDEX

How does John describe the SEA BEAST ?
viewtopic.php?p=1151669#p1151669

Should de assume the SEA BEAST is RED because it is ultimately controlled by the Devil ?
viewtopic.php?p=1151700#p1151700

Is there really a second 7-headed wild beast in Revelation chapter 13?
viewtopic.php?p=1151676#p1151676

Why do the descriptions of the BEASTS in Rev 13 and Rev 17 share certain characteristics?
viewtopic.php?p=1151702#p1151702

Do the descriptions of the BEASTS in Rev 13 and Rev 17 correspond? [CROWNS]
viewtopic.php?p=1151704#p1151704

Does the narrative indicate which beast the harlot is riding in Revelation chapter 17?
viewtopic.php?p=1151708#p1151708

What do the HARLOT and THE SCARLET BEAST of Revelation chapter 17 represent?
viewtopic.php?p=1151609#p1151609

FURTHER READING : The Book of Revelation​—What Does It Mean?
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... evelation/

To learn more please go to other posts related to

DANIEL'S PROPHECIES , .THE SECOND COMING * and ... THE BOOK OF REVELATION

*The Return of Christ