SABBATH...

[Capbook]

Is the Lord's Sabbath in the OT still for God's people in the NT?

Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment

[JehovahsWitness]

Lexicon define apostles as in broader sense applied to other eminent Christian teachers.

G652 (Thayer) ἀπόστολος apostolos
Thayer Definition:
1) a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders
1a) specifically applied to the twelve apostles of Christ
1b) in a broader sense applied to other eminent Christian teachers

Yes, the 12 APOSTLES were chosen by Christ to teach. So? So WHAT? What is your point?

Are they dedicated Christians or not?

They were born into a dedicated nation but They were not adopted as born again dedicated Christians until they were anointed as such at PENTECOST 33 CE

ACTS 1:8a

But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you, and you will be my witnesses

[1213]

What do you think is being communicated by the following words?

ROMANS 10:4

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth - KJV

End of the law for righteousness = End for that people try to obey the law to become righteous.

1. Please support that with scripture.

... end of the law for righteousness...
Romans 10:4

It does not say end of law, it says end of law for righteousness.

2. Since the words " Christ is the end of the law " are in your opinion , not enough, what words would Paul needed to have written to communicate that Christ ['s death] marked the actual end of the literal law, ie that the law had been rendered obsolete?

It is not about what Jesus should have said, it is more about what Jesus should not have said, if the law is obsolete. Jesus said it is "until heaven and earth pass away". I don't think that has happened yet, therefore I think the law is not obsolete. However, this doesn't mean people must be under the law. When person is under the law, it means he obeys it because he must do so. In the new covenant people obey the law freely, because they understand it is good, not because they have to do so, or because they try to achieve salvation or reward.

[JehovahsWitness]

2. Since the words " Christ is the end of the law " are in your opinion , not enough, what words would Paul needed to have written to communicate that Christ ['s death] marked the actual end of the literal law, ie that the law had been rendered obsolete?

It is not about what Jesus should have said, it is more about what Jesus should not have said, if the law is obsolete.

I did not say Jesus I said PAUL. Unless we are rejecting 13 books of the bible as uninspired, I take it we are accepting all the words in the bible as from God. Please confirm if you reject certain books or passages as not the word of God.

I repeat my question.. .

2. Since the words " Christ is the end of the law " are in your opinion , not enough, what words would Paul needed to have written to communicate that Christ ['s death] marked the actual end of the literal law, ie that the law had been rendered obsolete?

[JehovahsWitness]

ROMANS 10:4 KJV

For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Does Romans mean that the law ONLY "ended" for those that obeyed it out of bad or questionable motives?

The wording in some bible translations has lead some people to conclude that the law continued on a voluntary basis or that Christ's coming meant that those that were badly motivated (and only obeyed because they were obliged to) were now permitted to stop following the law and those that were rightly motivated could continue to follow the Mosaic law and be viewed as righteous by God for doing so. Granted, the wide variety of translational choices indicates this verse has been quite challanging to translate, but let's try and unpack these ideas and examine them in the light of scripture and context to get a better understanding of what Paul was saying under inspiration.

THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS

Firstly, let's examine the expression * "law for righteousness" ? Is he talking about the "misuse" of the law? Paul explained that the people of Israel could not gain righteousness through faith because they were under a law that required certain works. Notice however that there is no mention of motivation, nor did Paul speak of "self-righteousness". Indeed scripture is clear, even the most loyal and well meaning Jew could not attain perfect righteousness through the law since it was based on the blood of animals. Further, notice in Romans 9:31 Paul refers to the Mosaic law as "The/A law of righteousness" so the righteousness in verse 31 is the righteousness of the law itself, not the delusional self-righteousness of those failing to honestly keep it.





Now look at the sentence structure in Romans 10 verse 4. Does it look the same? Right away we see that the reference to the law is separated from the mention of "righteousness" Indeed Paul doesn't write the words "of righteousness" he says "ies dikaiosynēn" meaning "for" or "for the purpose of ..." righteousness. So Christ is the end of the law is one thought and "for righteousness for everyone" is a separate related thought.

Note various translations ...

[font color="44984e"]
New International Version
Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Berean Standard Bible
For Christ is the end of the law, to bring righteousness to everyone who believes.

Amplified Bible
For Christ is the end of the law [it leads to Him and its purpose is fulfilled in Him], for [granting] righteousness to everyone who believes [in Him as Savior].

Contemporary English Version
But Christ makes the Law no longer necessary for those who become acceptable to God by faith.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Christ is the fulfillment of Moses' Teachings so that everyone who has faith may receive God's approval.

Good News Translation
For Christ has brought the Law to an end, so that everyone who believes is put right with God.

Majority Standard Bible
For Christ is the end of the law, to bring righteousness to everyone who believes.

New American Bible
For Christ is the end of the law for the justification of everyone who has faith.

NET Bible
For Christ is the end of the law, with the result that there is righteousness for everyone who believes.

New Revised Standard Version
For Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.


[/font]

it is illogical to introduce the notion of everyone benefiting if the point of contention was that some people kept the law from bad motives so Christ ended the law FOR THEM alone. Also the ransom does not cover the faithless, so any action that resulted from the ransom (ending the law) cannot possibly be for the benefit of removing the obligation of those with bad motives to keep that law. John the Baptist did appeal to his fellow Jews to repent of their sins against the law, but Paul is speaking about the "righteousness" not attained through law but through faith.


CONCLUSION There is nothing in Paul's narrative that indicates that he was discussing self-righteousness or indicating that Christ ended the misuse or abuse of the law. Christ is the end of the law itself and the sentence structure favors a reading that the law ended so that people everywhere could attain true righteousness through faith in him.





JW


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viewtopic.php?p=1154067#p1154067

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To learn more please go to other posts related to ...

BIBLICAL LAW, THE MOSAIC LAW COVENANT and ...THE ABRAHAMIC CONVENANT

[tam]

Peace to you both, and to you all,

...
WHICH LAWS do you think are prophecied to be written on hearts ? ...

(a) The laws from the ( "old" )Mosaic covenant will be written on hearts

(b) the NEW LAWS (initiated by Christ) will be written on hearts - see John 13:34

[ * ]NOTE: CODE/laws /law code => Commandements (compare 2 Cor 3:3-8)

I think it is at least the ten commandments. And I don't see why not all the other laws also. Is there some old law in OT that you think is not good? Why?

It is love. LOVE is the law of the new covenant, the law that is written upon the heart.

It is not a mere set of rules.

Love is itself the law.


Consider:

God is love. How could the law that comes from Him not also BE love.

Christ said that the law and prophets hang from the two greatest commandments (to love God with our whole heart, mind, body; and to love our neighbor as ourselves.) Matt 22:36-40

If we wish to be sons of our Father in heaven (and if we wish to be perfect), we must LOVE not only our neighbor but also our enemies. Matt 5:43-48

LOVE also covers over a multitude of sins. 1Peter 4:8; Proverbs 10:12

There is NO law AGAINST love. Galatians 5:22, 23

Consider what love motivates one to do: Love gives to the one in need. Love forgives. Love is merciful. Love does not commit adultery. Love does not commit murder.

Christ also commanded that we love one another as He has loved us. John 13:34


May anyone who wishes them be given ears to hear, so as to hear the truth of this - or any - matter from the One who IS the Truth: Christ Jaheshua. May you also be given ears to hear if you wish them, so that you may hear the Spirit and the Bride say to you, "Come!" May anyone who hears, also say "Come!" May anyone who thirsts, "Come! Take the FREE gift of the water of LIFE!"


Peace again to you both,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[rstrats]

[quote=tam

It is love.

Consider what love motivates one to do...Love does not commit adultery. Love does not commit murder.


[/quote]

Also:
Love does not commit the honoring of other gods.
Love does not commit the making of idols and the bowing down to them.
Love does not commit the taking of the Lord's name in vain.
Love does not commit the ignoring of the 7th day Sabbath.
Love does not commit the disrespecting of one's parents.
Love does not commit stealing.
Love does not commit bearing false witness,
Love does not commit coveting.

[1213]

... Please confirm if you reject certain books or passages as not the word of God.

I repeat my question.. .

2. Since the words " Christ is the end of the law " are in your opinion , not enough, what words would Paul needed to have written to communicate that Christ ['s death] marked the actual end of the literal law, ie that the law had been rendered obsolete?

Why do you cut the end part of what Paul says? He doesn't say just "the end of the law", he says "the end of the law for righteousness". That changes the meaning from what you say.

[Capbook]

Lexicon define apostles as in broader sense applied to other eminent Christian teachers.

G652 (Thayer) ἀπόστολος apostolos
Thayer Definition:
1) a delegate, messenger, one sent forth with orders
1a) specifically applied to the twelve apostles of Christ
1b) in a broader sense applied to other eminent Christian teachers

Yes, the 12 APOSTLES were chosen by Christ to teach. So? So WHAT? What is your point?

Are they dedicated Christians or not?

They were born into a dedicated nation but They were not adopted as born again dedicated Christians until they were anointed as such at PENTECOST 33 CE

ACTS 1:8a

But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you, and you will be my witnesses

Are they Christians or not?

[JehovahsWitness]

Why do you cut the end part of what Paul says? He doesn't say just "the end of the law", he says "the end of the law for righteousness". That changes the meaning from what you say.

Please see the explanation for this expression in my POST #74 above
LINK : viewtopic.php?p=1154295#p1154295

[tam]

Peace to you,

Is the Lord's Sabbath in the OT still for God's people in the NT?

Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment

Since you added a verse as an example, I assume you are referring to a Sabbath DAY. But what about Sabbath weeks, years, months, feasts?

**

What about Romans 14, Galatians 4, Colossians 2?

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6Romans 14:5

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Galatians 4:16-17

Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces[d]? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you. Colossians 2: 8-11


I'm just curious where people draw the line and why there?

**

I did see the term "The Lord's day" mentioned somewhere in this thread. If people are getting that term from Revelation, then perhaps some have not considered (or asked Christ) if:

The Lord's Day = the Day of the Lord.

John was in the spirit on the Lord's day (on the day of the Lord), and saw things that happen on that Day.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy