Why Was Satan . . .

[Miles]

.


. . . given power to tempt man, thus leading man into sin and eventually causing him to go to hell?


.............................


Couldn't god have done it without Satan's help?


.

[Purple Knight]

Re the biblical God.

In the Hebrew Bible, Satan appears less like an embodiment of pure evil ...

I have difficulties to see him anything else than embodiment of evil, because he deceives people right from the beginning and leads them to death.

It depends on what he's trying to prove.

Imagine playing a MMORPG (a massively multiplayer online roleplaying game).

You make your character. But soon you see there is this weird rule that allows people to hurt you and you can't hurt them back. So you say, there should not be this rule.

Well, people laugh at you. They use the rule to hurt others. They get ahead using this rule, so they say the rule is fine and should not be changed.

You could use the rule too, to hurt them in the same way, but you don't. An eye for an eye makes the world blind.

Someone else, who has named their character Satan, decides to use the rule to hurt those who use it to hurt others. Soon those who once enjoyed the ability to hurt others consequence-free, are now being hurt by that same rule. Now they cry, "Let us not have this rule anymore, it is very bad for everyone."

And now the rule is finally changed. This happy ending might not come about in reality. But for all we know, the rule Satan is protesting is to let people deceive one another. Maybe he wants everyone to have maximum intellect. And maybe the only way God will do this, is if enough people are punished when they have been only trying to do good, because someone else deceived them.

[William]

Re the biblical God.

In the Hebrew Bible, Satan appears less like an embodiment of pure evil ...

I have difficulties to see him anything else than embodiment of evil, because he deceives people right from the beginning and leads them to death.

It depends on what he's trying to prove.

Imagine playing a MMORPG (a massively multiplayer online roleplaying game).

You make your character. But soon you see there is this weird rule that allows people to hurt you and you can't hurt them back. So you say, there should not be this rule.

Well, people laugh at you. They use the rule to hurt others. They get ahead using this rule, so they say the rule is fine and should not be changed.

You could use the rule too, to hurt them in the same way, but you don't. An eye for an eye makes the world blind.

Someone else, who has named their character Satan, decides to use the rule to hurt those who use it to hurt others. Soon those who once enjoyed the ability to hurt others consequence-free, are now being hurt by that same rule. Now they cry, "Let us not have this rule anymore, it is very bad for everyone."

And now the rule is finally changed. This happy ending might not come about in reality. But for all we know, the rule Satan is protesting is to let people deceive one another. Maybe he wants everyone to have maximum intellect. And maybe the only way God will do this, is if enough people are punished when they have been only trying to do good, because someone else deceived them.

Perhaps to understand GOD, one has to understand Satan.

Perhaps GOD is as much an alter-ego of Satan as Satan is of GOD.

[Purple Knight]

[Replying to William in post #232]

Often what appears to be bad writing - maybe a character who appears to act against his own interests seemingly just to further the story, but maybe also something about the worldbuilding doesn't make sense - can simply be looked at another way.

[Tcg]

.


. . . given power to tempt man, thus leading man into sin and eventually causing him to go to hell?


.............................


Couldn't god have done it without Satan's help?


.

In order to pretend that there exists a benevolent god, there must be a character who takes the blame for all the bad that happens in the world. Satan is that scapegoat.


Tcg

[JehovahsWitness]

.


. . . given power to tempt man, thus leading man into sin and eventually causing him to go to hell?


.............................


Couldn't god have done it without Satan's help?


.

Request for clarification:


Is your focus on and behaviours or motivations of said characters as recorded in any given texts, it being irrelevant if the chatacters are historical or fictional and if so, would you accept a contribution that does NOT contain a formal statement of belief one way or the other ?

In short does your question require the posters first prove that the characters refered in your OP in reality exist.


Clarification appreciated

[onewithhim]

You're not being very clear. What was the question I missed?

I colored it red now, see above.

Jehovah God had the final decision as to whether or not Job and mankind would be tested to prove their loyalty to Him. He ALLOWED Satan to attack Job with all kinds of problems. I believe I have already said this in my posts.

I don't see you've already answered about God as has the final decision.
Is "allowing" not taking part of the attack?

No. Jehovah allows Satan to run the present world. Jehovah is not part of Satan's rule. He's giving the Devil the opportunity to prove that the world doesn't need God and can run itself without Him. How is Satan measuring up? It won't be long before Jehovah says, "Enough!" and will bring Satan's rule to an end.

If you allow your child to to take the exam and passed.
Are you not part of the child's success by allowing?

Not necessarily. Satan has the non-success of his lousy rule squarely on his own shoulders. Jehovah has allowed Satan to prove his own legitimacy and he has failed. Now there can never be another accusation against Jehovah, the only true God and Sovereign.

You did not answer the question about the child.
Do you thing your child would passed the exam if you did not allow him/her to take the exam?

Of course not. How would he "pass" if he didn't even take the test?

Yes, by allowing you are part of the result then? Yes or no.

What is your point? What you are asking is not clear.

[Capbook]

I colored it red now, see above.

Jehovah God had the final decision as to whether or not Job and mankind would be tested to prove their loyalty to Him. He ALLOWED Satan to attack Job with all kinds of problems. I believe I have already said this in my posts.

I don't see you've already answered about God as has the final decision.
Is "allowing" not taking part of the attack?

No. Jehovah allows Satan to run the present world. Jehovah is not part of Satan's rule. He's giving the Devil the opportunity to prove that the world doesn't need God and can run itself without Him. How is Satan measuring up? It won't be long before Jehovah says, "Enough!" and will bring Satan's rule to an end.

If you allow your child to to take the exam and passed.
Are you not part of the child's success by allowing?

Not necessarily. Satan has the non-success of his lousy rule squarely on his own shoulders. Jehovah has allowed Satan to prove his own legitimacy and he has failed. Now there can never be another accusation against Jehovah, the only true God and Sovereign.

You did not answer the question about the child.
Do you thing your child would passed the exam if you did not allow him/her to take the exam?

Of course not. How would he "pass" if he didn't even take the test?

Yes, by allowing you are part of the result then? Yes or no.

What is your point? What you are asking is not clear.

By allowing your child to take the test, are you not part of the result then? Yes or no.
Cause not allowing no result then.

[1213]

...But for all we know, the rule Satan is protesting is to let people deceive one another. Maybe he wants everyone to have maximum intellect. And maybe the only way God will do this, is if enough people are punished when they have been only trying to do good, because someone else deceived them.

By what I see, Satan wants to ruin God's creation, not everyone to have maximum intellect.

In any case, I think people should not let anyone to deceive them.

[Purple Knight]

...But for all we know, the rule Satan is protesting is to let people deceive one another. Maybe he wants everyone to have maximum intellect. And maybe the only way God will do this, is if enough people are punished when they have been only trying to do good, because someone else deceived them.

By what I see, Satan wants to ruin God's creation, not everyone to have maximum intellect.

In any case, I think people should not let anyone to deceive them.

I wish it was a matter of letting. The only way I can see that it is, is if everyone just follows their conscience, refuses to let anyone else convince them that their conscience is wrong, and that might be disastrous in other ways.

[onewithhim]

Jehovah God had the final decision as to whether or not Job and mankind would be tested to prove their loyalty to Him. He ALLOWED Satan to attack Job with all kinds of problems. I believe I have already said this in my posts.

I don't see you've already answered about God as has the final decision.
Is "allowing" not taking part of the attack?

No. Jehovah allows Satan to run the present world. Jehovah is not part of Satan's rule. He's giving the Devil the opportunity to prove that the world doesn't need God and can run itself without Him. How is Satan measuring up? It won't be long before Jehovah says, "Enough!" and will bring Satan's rule to an end.

If you allow your child to to take the exam and passed.
Are you not part of the child's success by allowing?

Not necessarily. Satan has the non-success of his lousy rule squarely on his own shoulders. Jehovah has allowed Satan to prove his own legitimacy and he has failed. Now there can never be another accusation against Jehovah, the only true God and Sovereign.

You did not answer the question about the child.
Do you thing your child would passed the exam if you did not allow him/her to take the exam?

Of course not. How would he "pass" if he didn't even take the test?

Yes, by allowing you are part of the result then? Yes or no.

What is your point? What you are asking is not clear.

By allowing your child to take the test, are you not part of the result then? Yes or no.
Cause not allowing no result then.

I would say no.

Wouldn't it be like a child who wanted to take a project to school that the parent didn't think was very good. Even so the parent let the child take it to school. Is the parent responsible because the child got an F for the project? No, it's all on the child and how he constructed the project.