"Slavery" in the Bible

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"Slavery" in the Bible

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Post by POI »

Allow us readers to be very careful. We must make sure we identify the proper context here, to assure against hasty and/or self-serving conclusions.

Exodus 21:2-3:

"2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him." <-- Okay, this seems clear enough, if you are a purchased Hebrew, with a wife, you are both to go free in year 7. :ok:

Exodus 21:4:

"4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free." <-- Here is where things start to look sketchy for the modern-day believer. If the slave is provided with a wife, and they have kids, the wife and kids are to stay with the slave master. They are not to go free.

Exodus 21:5-6:

"5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life." <-- More uncomfortability for the Christian here. Without getting into the weeds, common sense suggests a special rule is made to trick the male Hebrew into remaining a slave for life.

Leviticus 25:44-46:

"44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." <-- More awkwardness for the believer, as the Bible reader clammers to find a rationale to make this passage not read the way it does.

Here is a basic definition of chattel slavery --> "Chattel slavery is full slavery in its traditional form whereby slaves are the complete property of their master, can be bought and sold by him and treated in any way that he wishes, which may include torture and other brutality, excessively bad working conditions, and sexual exploitation"

Looks like all the ingredients fit the given Bible description here, minus the torture. Wait a minute, this is covered in the rest of Exodus 21. (i.e.):

"20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." <-- So basically, since the slave is your property, beatings with impunity are acceptable. Just don't kill them.

For debate:

By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery?

Again, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves?

************************

Before you answer, consider this.... Since the NT does not mention the abolition of 'slavery', and yet the Bible makes further proclamation(s) and/or addendums (in favor of retaining 'slavery',) this means the Bible is not against chattel slavery either. Further, the Christian may want to introduce the importance of the 'golden rule'. However, the specifics outweigh the generals. The specifics of the rules for engagement of slavery are outside the 'golden rule'. Otherwise, the Bible would be a one-pager. 'Slavery' is an expressed exception to the general rule. Thus, anytime a specific scenario is not invoked, yes, 'golden rule.'
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #381

Post by marke »

POI wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 5:38 am
marke wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 5:00 am God did not instruct ancient people to buy or sell slaves as a matter of wealth generation and God does not instruct modern Christians to traffick in slaves for pleasure or profit.
The Bible endorses/condones what I have demonstrated the Bible to endorse/condone, which I've listed in the OP. Which is a) lifetime chattel slavery and b) slave breeding. Assuming you are not down with such practices as well, then why do you follow a book which does not align with your own personal moral compass?
The New Testament does not instruct Christians to engage in slave trafficking or breeding, no matter how badly you wish it did.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #382

Post by POI »

servant1 wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:13 pm [Replying to POI in post #370]


Love=1+1=2 one with Love would never enslave a human family member.( forced slavery) No need to say anything.
Indentured slaves sold themselves as workers basically, until the wages were paid off, thus not slaves as forced slavery is.
The bible as well says if one is a slave, do their best, not for the slave master perse, but to bring honor to Gods name, and the slave master would have no need to whip or punish that one making the situation even worse on the slave.
I covered all this in the OP. Only a portion are indentured servants. The rest are not. Many are enslaved for life. It is not the choice of the slave, but the master. The 'golden rule' was also already established in the OT, alongside the many rules relating to enslavement. Many are instructed to be kept for life. Beating with impunity are also instructed. The slave is the master's labor. Killing them would be counterproductive. Whipping them on the back is right in line with the instructions given in Exodus 21.

Sorry buddy. Your Bible book endorses lifetime chattel slavery and slave breeding. Why do you stay behind a book which does not align with your own moral standards?
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #383

Post by POI »

marke wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:37 pm
POI wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 5:38 am
marke wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 5:00 am God did not instruct ancient people to buy or sell slaves as a matter of wealth generation and God does not instruct modern Christians to traffick in slaves for pleasure or profit.
The Bible endorses/condones what I have demonstrated the Bible to endorse/condone, which I've listed in the OP. Which is a) lifetime chattel slavery and b) slave breeding. Assuming you are not down with such practices as well, then why do you follow a book which does not align with your own personal moral compass?
The New Testament does not instruct Christians to engage in slave trafficking or breeding, no matter how badly you wish it did.
As I already stated, Jesus has no problem telling folks what he does not like. He knew his dad provided many rules to allow for lifetime chattel slavery and slave breeding. Jesus was either negligent, in ignoring the rules in which his dad made. Or, is complicit and agrees with his dad's given rules. Why are you on board with a doctrine which does not align with your own personal morals?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #384

Post by benchwarmer »

POI wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 5:36 pm
marke wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:37 pm
POI wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 5:38 am
marke wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 5:00 am God did not instruct ancient people to buy or sell slaves as a matter of wealth generation and God does not instruct modern Christians to traffick in slaves for pleasure or profit.
The Bible endorses/condones what I have demonstrated the Bible to endorse/condone, which I've listed in the OP. Which is a) lifetime chattel slavery and b) slave breeding. Assuming you are not down with such practices as well, then why do you follow a book which does not align with your own personal moral compass?
The New Testament does not instruct Christians to engage in slave trafficking or breeding, no matter how badly you wish it did.
As I already stated, Jesus has no problem telling folks what he does not like. He knew his dad provided many rules to allow for lifetime chattel slavery and slave breeding. Jesus was either negligent, in ignoring the rules in which his dad made. Or, is complicit and agrees with his dad's given rules. Why are you on board with a doctrine which does not align with your own personal morals?
It also doesn't matter that the NT doesn't have any rules regarding slaves.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
This means that current day Christians are saddled with the boat anchor of the OT laws whether they like it or not. Of course most simply resort to cafeteria style Christianity and simply pick and choose which parts of the Bible to conveniently ignore.

In cases like this, I actually respect the Bible literalists more than the 'pick and choose' types. Though they have to contort the text into an logically confusing mess, at least they try and take all of it.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #385

Post by servant1 »

[Replying to POI in post #382]

Yes enslaved by wicked hearted mortals. To Gods view 99% on earth today are wicked.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #386

Post by POI »

servant1 wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 8:37 pm [Replying to POI in post #382]

Yes enslaved by wicked hearted mortals. To Gods view 99% on earth today are wicked.
But the Bible does not think such acts are wicked. You do. Why do you follow a book which disagrees with your own morals?
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #387

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:33 am
1213 wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:18 am
POI wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2025 2:38 pm ... And whipping them on the back, at will, rendered NO punishment, as long as they did not die....
Have you ever wondered why is there no specific rule against whipping anyone in the Bible? When you ignore the love your neighbor part, you could as well whip any person, not just slaves.
In regard to the care of slaves, masters are instructed not to be punished as long as their slaves do not lose teeth or eyes. That's it. I think whipping was the safest and most effective way to keep slaves productive, since this was the slave master's workforce for free and/or cheap labor.
There is no punishment for whipping any person. So, why do you make this a slave issue, when it is not only slaves that could be whipped, if you ignore the second highest commandment from the Bible?

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #388

Post by marke »

benchwarmer wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 7:56 pm
POI wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 5:36 pm
marke wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:37 pm
POI wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 5:38 am
marke wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 5:00 am God did not instruct ancient people to buy or sell slaves as a matter of wealth generation and God does not instruct modern Christians to traffick in slaves for pleasure or profit.
The Bible endorses/condones what I have demonstrated the Bible to endorse/condone, which I've listed in the OP. Which is a) lifetime chattel slavery and b) slave breeding. Assuming you are not down with such practices as well, then why do you follow a book which does not align with your own personal moral compass?
The New Testament does not instruct Christians to engage in slave trafficking or breeding, no matter how badly you wish it did.
As I already stated, Jesus has no problem telling folks what he does not like. He knew his dad provided many rules to allow for lifetime chattel slavery and slave breeding. Jesus was either negligent, in ignoring the rules in which his dad made. Or, is complicit and agrees with his dad's given rules. Why are you on board with a doctrine which does not align with your own personal morals?
It also doesn't matter that the NT doesn't have any rules regarding slaves.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
This means that current day Christians are saddled with the boat anchor of the OT laws whether they like it or not. Of course most simply resort to cafeteria style Christianity and simply pick and choose which parts of the Bible to conveniently ignore.

In cases like this, I actually respect the Bible literalists more than the 'pick and choose' types. Though they have to contort the text into an logically confusing mess, at least they try and take all of it.
God tells Christians how to deal with tyrannical government oppression but that does not mean that God supports tyrannical oppression. God tells Christians how to deal with divorce but God does not approve of divorce. The elephant in the room that critics of God refuse to acknowledge is the fact that God nowhere instructs Christians to buy or abuse slaves.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #389

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 12:15 am
POI wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:33 am
1213 wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:18 am
POI wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2025 2:38 pm ... And whipping them on the back, at will, rendered NO punishment, as long as they did not die....
Have you ever wondered why is there no specific rule against whipping anyone in the Bible? When you ignore the love your neighbor part, you could as well whip any person, not just slaves.
In regard to the care of slaves, masters are instructed not to be punished as long as their slaves do not lose teeth or eyes. That's it. I think whipping was the safest and most effective way to keep slaves productive, since this was the slave master's workforce for free and/or cheap labor.
There is no punishment for whipping any person. So, why do you make this a slave issue, when it is not only slaves that could be whipped, if you ignore the second highest commandment from the Bible?
You, of all people, should understand context. Christians accuse non-Christians of taking things out of context all the time, you included. I suggest you start at my original post, and start over. Masters are instructed not to be punished, unless they knock out the slave's eye(s)/teeth. Free humans are not instructed of the same specifics.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #390

Post by POI »

marke wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am God tells Christians how to deal with tyrannical government oppression but that does not mean that God supports tyrannical oppression. God tells Christians how to deal with divorce but God does not approve of divorce. The elephant in the room that critics of God refuse to acknowledge is the fact that God nowhere instructs Christians to buy or abuse slaves.
Exactly. The Bible tells readers that God does not like divorce. Where does the Bible state that God does not like slavery? See the difference yet?

4th request... Why follow a book which does not align with your own moral standards?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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