Do patterns of phylogenesis show evolution?

[Difflugia]

Question for debate: Are the patterns seen in molecular phylogenies sufficient to show that biological evolution occurred?

For reference and easier Googling, the science of generating evolutionary trees is known as cladistics or phylogenetic systematics. Using DNA sequence data to generate the trees is molecular phylogeny.

The standard of evidence I'll be discussing is reasonable doubt. Even that's pretty broad, but if your argument hinges on "possible," you should be able to at least quantify that.

I've generated phylogenies using online tools previously and discussed them in this post. I tried to start a tutorial in this thread. If someone wants to discuss how to actually use the tools and data, feel free to ask questions in the tutorial thread and I'll pick it back up.

This debate question is a response to this comment.

[The Barbarian]

You did not provide answers. If you had, you would fully use this opportunity to put me in my place. You didn't earlier and you fail again. You can now really make me look dumb since I have doubled down, all you have to do is show where you answered this:
"name even one feature of birds that are not found in some other dinosaurs."

I don't answer loaded questions.

Or ones that expose the failure of YE creationism, I see. If you can't even do that, what makes you think birds didn't evolve from other dinosaurs? Wouldn't a population with no way to distinguish it from another population, put them both in the same "kind?"

A belief in an invisible, blind, random, creative force that created the universe, life, species, and consciousness.

No wonder you hate evolution. If I thought it was that, I'd hate it too.
"People are down on things they aren't up on." - Everette Dirkson

Sounds like a religion to me, if I'd ever see one.

If that's your definition of Darwin's theory (or any other theory of biological evolution), then we've located the problem.

I explained why evolution is a religion.

It seems that you've just invented some odd ideas and projected that on evolution.

[SiNcE_1985]

Or ones that expose the failure of YE creationism, I see. If you can't even do that, what makes you think birds didn't evolve from other dinosaurs? Wouldn't a population with no way to distinguish it from another population, put them both in the same "kind?"

So, it seems you ignored my request of you to explain what does YE have to do with this discussion...just like you ignored the point I made about how belief in evolution (as a Christian) contradicts scripture.

I'll respond in kind by ignoring your points as well..as I'm doing, even now.

[marke]

You did not provide answers. If you had, you would fully use this opportunity to put me in my place. You didn't earlier and you fail again. You can now really make me look dumb since I have doubled down, all you have to do is show where you answered this:
"name even one feature of birds that are not found in some other dinosaurs."

I don't answer loaded questions.

Or ones that expose the failure of YE creationism, I see. If you can't even do that, what makes you think birds didn't evolve from other dinosaurs? Wouldn't a population with no way to distinguish it from another population, put them both in the same "kind?"

A belief in an invisible, blind, random, creative force that created the universe, life, species, and consciousness.

No wonder you hate evolution. If I thought it was that, I'd hate it too.
"People are down on things they aren't up on." - Everette Dirkson

Sounds like a religion to me, if I'd ever see one.

If that's your definition of Darwin's theory (or any other theory of biological evolution), then we've located the problem.

I explained why evolution is a religion.

It seems that you've just invented some odd ideas and projected that on evolution.

Evolution is a theory supported by secular speculations, secular interpretations of data, and mountains of flawed argumentation widely propagated by the ignorant masses, but not on actual scientific observation.

[The Barbarian]

Or ones that expose the failure of YE creationism, I see. If you can't even do that, what makes you think birds didn't evolve from other dinosaurs? Wouldn't a population with no way to distinguish it from another population, put them both in the same "kind?"

So, it seems you ignored my request of you to explain

I don't think gaslighting is going to work for you, now. As you see, by YE creationist standards, birds and other dinosaurs are the same "kind."

what does YE have to do with this discussion...

It's a new doctrine among some religious people, some of them Christians, denying phylogeny and evolution.

just like you ignored the point I made about how belief in evolution (as a Christian) contradicts scripture.

I merely showed that your interpretation is not orthodox Christian doctrine. So, being Christian, I rejected your interpretation.

I'll respond in kind by ignoring your points as well..as I'm doing, even now.

We'll just note that you are unable to answer the questions for the obvious reasons.

[The Barbarian]

Evolution is a theory supported by secular speculations,

Direct observation. I'm thinking that you have confused biological evolution (which we observe in all living populations) with common descent, which is merely a consequence of evolution. This goes back to your misunderstanding of what evolution is.

As you learned, even knowledgeable YE creationists admit that the evidence supports evolution. The ignorant masses of YE creationists do not, for the obvious reason. Would you like me to show you again?

[SiNcE_1985]

I don't think gaslighting is going to work for you, now. As you see, by YE creationist standards, birds and other dinosaurs are the same "kind."

It's a new doctrine among some religious people, some of them Christians, denying phylogeny and evolution.

Um, no.

You're assuming that just because a person doesn't believe in evolution, that they are under a default position of YEC.

Non sequitur.

It doesn't logically follow.

So, kill that noise.

[Jose Fly]

Evolution is a theory supported by secular speculations, secular interpretations of data, and mountains of flawed argumentation widely propagated by the ignorant masses, but not on actual scientific observation.

It's times like this when I wonder if creationists realize just how.....well....dumb that sounds.

It really is no different at all than a flat-earther saying "there are no upside down Australians" and thinking they've made some sort of profound point.

[The Barbarian]

I don't think gaslighting is going to work for you, now. As you see, by YE creationist standards, birds and other dinosaurs are the same "kind."

It's a new doctrine among some religious people, some of them Christians, denying phylogeny and evolution.

Um, no.

It is. Fact is, if you can't come up with even one difference between birds and other dinosaurs, they are, by default, one "kind." No way to dodge it.

You're assuming that just because a person doesn't believe in evolution, that they are under a default position of YEC.

Wrong. No one here "believes in" evolution. We take it as true, based on evidence. Non sequitur.

It doesn't logically follow.

There are OE people who don't accept evolution, but you don't seem to be one of them.

[SiNcE_1985]

It is. Fact is, if you can't come up with even one difference between birds and other dinosaurs, they are, by default, one "kind." No way to dodge it.

I can, actually.

But, any answer I give will only breed more fantasy...more cheap tickets to Fantasy Island...more opportunity for you to spew your "locked and loaded" biobabble.

I get it.

Wrong. No one here "believes in" evolution. We take it as true, based on evidence. Non sequitur.

Hey, whatever is gonna make you sleep good tonight

There are OE people who don't accept evolution, but you don't seem to be one of them.

Ohh, now you bring up OE?

Smh.

[The Barbarian]

It is. Fact is, if you can't come up with even one difference between birds and other dinosaurs, they are, by default, one "kind." No way to dodge it.

I can, actually.

But, any answer I give will only breed more fantasy...more cheap tickets to Fantasy Island...more opportunity for you to spew your "locked and loaded" biobabble.

So you could answer the question, but the Evil Barbarian won't let you? We all get it. It's not a matter of ignorance. No one else can find one, either.

No one here "believes in" evolution. We take it as true, based on evidence. Non sequitur.

There are OE people who don't accept evolution, but you don't seem to be one of them.

Ohh, now you bring up OE?

(Barbarian checks) Actually, you brought it up.