Questions about Jesus and JW’s

[MissKate13]

1. Jehovah’s Witnesses say Jesus was “a god.” This is how the NWT reads (John 1:1).

Do JW’s believe Jesus was a true or false god?

2. JW’s say Jesus is a created being.

When was Jesus (capital or lower case g) created?

I look forward to your responses to one or both questions.

MissKate13

[JehovahsWitness]

Relational subordination is simply a term to describe the relationship that exists among God the Father and Son Jesus.

So is the glorified Jesus today, now that he has returned to heaven in "relational subordination" to his Father? If so, why? Upon what basis?

Yes, Jesus is still the Son and the Father is still the Father, that is still their relationship.

When you say "still in their relationship" just to clarify, Jesus is still in "relational subordination" to his Father? Correct?

[Capbook]

Relational subordination is simply a term to describe the relationship that exists among God the Father and Son Jesus.

So is the glorified Jesus today, now that he has returned to heaven in "relational subordination" to his Father? If so, why? Upon what basis?

Yes, Jesus is still the Son and the Father is still the Father, that is still their relationship.

When you say "still in their relationship" just to clarify, Jesus is still in "relational subordination" to his Father? Correct?

Correct, Jesus remains in a relational subordination to the Father (God the Father) eternally in heaven, even while fully God, sharing the same divine nature, yet with distinct roles and functions within the Trinity.

[JehovahsWitness]

Correct, Jesus remains in a relational subordination to the Father (God the Father) eternally in heaven, ...

Why? Upon what basis does one get to be dominant and the other eternally subordinate?

SUBORDINATE

• lower in rank or position .

• a person under the authority or control of another within an organization

• treat or regard as of lesser importance than something else

- Definitions from Oxford Languages ·

[onewithhim]

Relational subordination is simply a term to describe the relationship that exists among God the Father and Son Jesus.

So is the glorified Jesus today, now that he has returned to heaven in "relational subordination" to his Father? If so, why? Upon what basis?

Yes, Jesus is still the Son and the Father is still the Father, that is still their relationship.

When you say "still in their relationship" just to clarify, Jesus is still in "relational subordination" to his Father? Correct?

Correct, Jesus remains in a relational subordination to the Father (God the Father) eternally in heaven, even while fully God, sharing the same divine nature, yet with distinct roles and functions within the Trinity.

I was under the impression that Trinitarians believe that the members of the Trinity are all equal. But you say that Christ is subordinate to the Father. He is not equal to the Father. How can Christ be "fully God"? It doesn't add up.

[Capbook]

Relational subordination is simply a term to describe the relationship that exists among God the Father and Son Jesus.

So is the glorified Jesus today, now that he has returned to heaven in "relational subordination" to his Father? If so, why? Upon what basis?

Yes, Jesus is still the Son and the Father is still the Father, that is still their relationship.

When you say "still in their relationship" just to clarify, Jesus is still in "relational subordination" to his Father? Correct?

Correct, Jesus remains in a relational subordination to the Father (God the Father) eternally in heaven, even while fully God, sharing the same divine nature, yet with distinct roles and functions within the Trinity.

I was under the impression that Trinitarians believe that the members of the Trinity are all equal. But you say that Christ is subordinate to the Father. He is not equal to the Father. How can Christ be "fully God"? It doesn't add up.

Subordinate as obedient to the Father but the same in the nature of being God.
Does your son not obey to your advises? Obedient or not you both are the same as human.

[JehovahsWitness]

Subordinate as obedient to the Father but the same in the nature of being God.
Does your son not obey to your advises? Obedient or not you both are the same as human.

A human Father is older, wiser, has more power and authority than his son and on this basis has the right to be obeyed. My QUESTION is: Upon what basis is Jesus subordinate to the Father. What is the difference between the two that makes one the subordinate and one the dominant?

SUBORDINATE

• lower in rank or position .

• a person under the authority or control of another within an organization

• treat or regard as of lesser importance than something else

- Definitions from Oxford Languages ·

[Bible_Student]

I was under the impression that Trinitarians believe that the members of the Trinity are all equal. But you say that Christ is subordinate to the Father. He is not equal to the Father. How can Christ be "fully God"? It doesn't add up.

Good point.

Some have decided they must worship Jesus as if he were God himself instead of worshiping his Father and God, but the real reason why is still unclear.

I would like to know if their reasoning for doing so stems from the belief that Jesus is "equally divine" as his Father in "essence," or if they maintain that Jesus possesses a level of authority and power that is on par with his Father's (???). Regardless, this issue is of such gravity that it must be crystal clear to both the practitioners of their faith and those who witness the actions of believers.

[Capbook]

Subordinate as obedient to the Father but the same in the nature of being God.
Does your son not obey to your advises? Obedient or not you both are the same as human.

A human Father is older, wiser, has more power and authority than his son and on this basis has the right to be obeyed. My QUESTION is: Upon what basis is Jesus subordinate to the Father. What is the difference between the two that makes one the subordinate and one the dominant?

SUBORDINATE

• lower in rank or position .

• a person under the authority or control of another within an organization

• treat or regard as of lesser importance than something else

- Definitions from Oxford Languages ·

All humans are equal refers to moral or legal equality, meaning that everyone possesses inherent dignity and rights regardless of their background, abilities, or circumstances.
The concept often referred to as "relational subordination" describes the relationship between the Father and the Son within the Trinity, in the context of their unique roles and relationships within the Godhead, not in a way that diminishes His divine nature. Jesus was given all the power and authority whom was from the Father. And Jesus seat is positioned in the right hand of the Father. If a human father says to the son, you are my right hand. Is the son's role the same with his father?


Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
(ASV)Mat 28:19 And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth.
(KJV) Mat 28:19 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

[onewithhim]

Subordinate as obedient to the Father but the same in the nature of being God.
Does your son not obey to your advises? Obedient or not you both are the same as human.

A human Father is older, wiser, has more power and authority than his son and on this basis has the right to be obeyed. My QUESTION is: Upon what basis is Jesus subordinate to the Father. What is the difference between the two that makes one the subordinate and one the dominant?

SUBORDINATE

• lower in rank or position .

• a person under the authority or control of another within an organization

• treat or regard as of lesser importance than something else

- Definitions from Oxford Languages ·

All humans are equal refers to moral or legal equality, meaning that everyone possesses inherent dignity and rights regardless of their background, abilities, or circumstances.
The concept often referred to as "relational subordination" describes the relationship between the Father and the Son within the Trinity, in the context of their unique roles and relationships within the Godhead, not in a way that diminishes His divine nature. Jesus was given all the power and authority whom was from the Father. And Jesus seat is positioned in the right hand of the Father. If a human father says to the son, you are my right hand. Is the son's role the same with his father?


Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
(ASV)Mat 28:19 And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth.
(KJV) Mat 28:19 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

You said yourself that all the authority that Jesus has was GIVEN to him by his Father. The Father did not have to give His Son anything, and, after giving it, He could take it back, couldn't He? There is subordination on Jesus' part, with the definition brought out by JehovahsWitness. He is not equal to the Father, God, even though he is sitting at God's right hand.

[Capbook]

Subordinate as obedient to the Father but the same in the nature of being God.
Does your son not obey to your advises? Obedient or not you both are the same as human.

A human Father is older, wiser, has more power and authority than his son and on this basis has the right to be obeyed. My QUESTION is: Upon what basis is Jesus subordinate to the Father. What is the difference between the two that makes one the subordinate and one the dominant?

SUBORDINATE

• lower in rank or position .

• a person under the authority or control of another within an organization

• treat or regard as of lesser importance than something else

- Definitions from Oxford Languages ·

All humans are equal refers to moral or legal equality, meaning that everyone possesses inherent dignity and rights regardless of their background, abilities, or circumstances.
The concept often referred to as "relational subordination" describes the relationship between the Father and the Son within the Trinity, in the context of their unique roles and relationships within the Godhead, not in a way that diminishes His divine nature. Jesus was given all the power and authority whom was from the Father. And Jesus seat is positioned in the right hand of the Father. If a human father says to the son, you are my right hand. Is the son's role the same with his father?


Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
(ASV)Mat 28:19 And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth.
(KJV) Mat 28:19 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

You said yourself that all the authority that Jesus has was GIVEN to him by his Father. The Father did not have to give His Son anything, and, after giving it, He could take it back, couldn't He? There is subordination on Jesus' part, with the definition brought out by JehovahsWitness. He is not equal to the Father, God, even though he is sitting at God's right hand.

Yes, though they are equal in power and authority, who was the giver and the recipient in Mat 28:18?
Being Divine, they are equal. In salvation roles they are different, Jesus obedient to the Father as in "relational subordination". In Heaven Jesus sit at the right hand of the Father. Just like what I've said, if a human father said to his son, you are my right hand. Do they have the same role? Though they are equal in terms of human dignity and rights.