Moses wrote 3500 years ago and the writers of the New Testament 2000 years ago. Yet science appears only now to be catching up with God’s word. Following is proof that Jesus is God, the Son of God, and Son of man, and that he is without beginning.
The mother provides her unborn developing infant with the nutritive elements for building its physical body in her womb, but all the blood that forms in the unborn child is formed in the embryo itself and only as a result of the father’s contribution; therefore, not one drop of blood ever passes from the mother to the child.
And so goes the miracle of the conception of the virgin birth. Luke 1:30-35, the angel came to Mary and said --- “Behold, you shall conceive in your womb, and bring forth a son, and shall call his name Jesus.” --- “The Holy Ghost shall come upon you, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow you: therefore also that Holy One (Jesus) which shall be born of you shall be called the Son of God.”
This was a male sperm inserted into the womb of a virgin. Was this seed taken directly from the Father or the Son? Or was it created? If created, then it can be said Jesus was created like all men. Now, because Mary conceived by supernatural insemination of the Holy Spirit, and the seed was that of God, the child born of this seed was born without spot or blemish, and without a sinful nature.
So, Jesus was of Adam's race according to the flesh, but he did not inherit Adam's nature. Mary's geology is traced back to Adam, Luke 3:38.
This provides us with the evidence, that sin is NOT transmitted through the flesh but through the blood. And though Jesus was of the "seed of David” and of the "seed of Adam" through Mary according to the flesh" He was, 1 Timothy 3:16, “God manifest in the flesh, and as Matthew 1:23 states, “God with us.” That newborn child was born perfectly human in the flesh, and yet perfectly God. And because the seed was that of God, our faith, and his precious blood gave us victory over death and hell.
Romans 5:9, "Justified by His blood we shall be saved from wrath, through Him." The phrase, to be "saved from wrath, through Him"
With God, nothing is impossible.
Moderator: Moderators
-
- Sage
- Posts: 988
- Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2024 3:37 pm
- Been thanked: 72 times
-
- Guru
- Posts: 2113
- Joined: Sat May 04, 2024 7:12 am
- Has thanked: 41 times
- Been thanked: 60 times
Re: With God, nothing is impossible.
Post #81You just mentioned the translations but nowhere are the texts.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Mar 15, 2025 7:34 pmThey are not paraphrased translations. YOU put your confidence in paraphrased translations, translations that actually ADD words to the verses. The Interlinear Bible that I have translates word-for-word, as does the American Standard Bible, the Revised Standard Version, The New Testament in English by Msgr. R.A. Knox, The 21st Century New Testament, The James Moffett Translation, and others, render the verse:Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Mar 15, 2025 2:44 amThere are some who translates like your resource but mostly are paraphrase translations.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Mar 15, 2025 12:15 amThose are all biased and words are added in the NRSVAue+ which is also paraphrased. The Interlinear Bible in Hebrew, Greek and English translates John 1:18 this way: "No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he reveals Him."Capbook wrote: ↑Thu Mar 13, 2025 4:23 amAre the ESV translators not convincing to you?onewithhim wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 11:23 amI would say that it is, and so is the work of "evangelical" scholars. They all accept the teaching of hell-fire, the immortality of the soul, the Trinity, etc. Their work would be biased from the start, and they would translate that way.marke wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:08 pmMarke: The ESV is a flawed translation written by flawed scholars.Capbook wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 3:11 amGood point, but ESV is not a paraphrase translation.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 7:01 pmKing James Version: John 1:18: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Mar 08, 2025 10:33 pmWhy callest thou me good? not that He denied that He was so, for He was good, both as God and man, in His divine and human natures, Jesus was goodness itself, and did good and nothing else but good. But the reason of the question is, because this young man considered Him only as a mere man, and gave Him this character as such, and which in comparison of God, the fountain of all goodness, agrees with no mere man: wherefore our Lord's view is, by His own language; and from His own words, to instruct him in the knowledge of His proper deity. The only one who have seen the Father, the begotten God Jesus.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Mar 08, 2025 9:53 pm
That's weak. Jesus himself considered himself to not be as good as the Father. It was his assessment. I won't argue with him. It's a flimsy argument to use that verse to prove that Jesus is God. And I don't see you presenting a verse that refers to "God the Son."
Jhn 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known(ESV)
Jhn 1:18 (LSV) No one has ever seen God; the only begotten God who is on the bosom of the Father—He has expounded Him..
American Standard Version: John 1:18: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
Interlinear Bible, in Hebrew, Greek and English: John 1:18: "No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He reveals Him."
Your versions appear to be paraphrased. My versions are not.
The English Standard Version (ESV) is an "essentially literal" translation of the Bible in contemporary English. Created by a team of more than 100 leading evangelical scholars and pastors, the ESV Bible emphasizes "word-for-word" accuracy, literary excellence, and depth of meaning.
https://www.google.com/search?q=is+esv+ ... e&ie=UTF-8
Known word for word translations, (updated editions) together with ESV rendered the same substance.
(UASV+) No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God N7 who is in the bosom of the Father, N8 that one has made him fully known.
(NAS95) No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
(NRSVAue+) No one has ever seen God. It is the only Son, himself God, who N1 is close to the Father’s heart, N2 who has made him
known. R11
(NASB+) R1 No G3762 one G3762 has seen G3708 God G2316 at any G4455 time G4455 ; R2God G2316 the only G3439 Son, who is R3 in the N1 arms G2859 of the Father G3962 , R4 He has N2 explained G1834 Him.
"No one has ever seen God; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known."
-
- Banned
- Posts: 1079
- Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2025 1:42 am
- Has thanked: 36 times
- Been thanked: 24 times
Re: With God, nothing is impossible.
Post #82Marke: I have studied translations and therefore support the KJV but not the ESV.Capbook wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:48 amI beg to differ, below were the translators of ESV;marke wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:08 pmMarke: The ESV is a flawed translation written by flawed scholars.Capbook wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 3:11 amGood point, but ESV is not a paraphrase translation.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 7:01 pmKing James Version: John 1:18: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Mar 08, 2025 10:33 pmWhy callest thou me good? not that He denied that He was so, for He was good, both as God and man, in His divine and human natures, Jesus was goodness itself, and did good and nothing else but good. But the reason of the question is, because this young man considered Him only as a mere man, and gave Him this character as such, and which in comparison of God, the fountain of all goodness, agrees with no mere man: wherefore our Lord's view is, by His own language; and from His own words, to instruct him in the knowledge of His proper deity. The only one who have seen the Father, the begotten God Jesus.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Mar 08, 2025 9:53 pmThat's weak. Jesus himself considered himself to not be as good as the Father. It was his assessment. I won't argue with him. It's a flimsy argument to use that verse to prove that Jesus is God. And I don't see you presenting a verse that refers to "God the Son."marke wrote: ↑Fri Mar 07, 2025 5:22 pmMarke: There is none good but one, and that is Jesus and God.onewithhim wrote: ↑Fri Mar 07, 2025 10:31 amShow me where in the Bible the phrase "God the Son" appears. (There is none, and, conversely, "the Son of God" appears a number of times.)
Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Jhn 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known(ESV)
Jhn 1:18 (LSV) No one has ever seen God; the only begotten God who is on the bosom of the Father—He has expounded Him..
American Standard Version: John 1:18: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
Interlinear Bible, in Hebrew, Greek and English: John 1:18: "No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He reveals Him."
Your versions appear to be paraphrased. My versions are not.
The English Standard Version (ESV) is an "essentially literal" translation of the Bible in contemporary English. Created by a team of more than 100 leading evangelical scholars and pastors, the ESV Bible emphasizes "word-for-word" accuracy, literary excellence, and depth of meaning.
https://www.google.com/search?q=is+esv+ ... e&ie=UTF-8
Chaired by Dennis, the fourteen-member Translation Oversight Committee was aided by more than fifty biblical experts serving as review scholars. He also states that the translation committee meets approximately every 5–7 years to consider text revisions.
The original translation committee featured the following notable individuals:[26]
Wayne A. Grudem (Research Professor, Theology and Biblical Studies, Phoenix Seminary)
William D. Mounce (Professor of New Testament, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary)
J. I. Packer (Board of Governors Professor of Theology, Regent College, Vancouver, Canada)
Vern Sheridan Poythress (Professor of New Testament Interpretation, Westminster Theological Seminary; Editor, Westminster Theological Journal)
Gordon Wenham (Old Testament Tutor at Trinity College, Bristol; Emeritus Professor of Old Testament, University of Gloucestershire)
By 2011, Robert H. Mounce and William (Bill) Mounce had become emeritus members.[31] Having served as the ESV New Testament Chair, Bill Mounce's role was assigned to Vern Poythress.[14] Writing on his personal blog in 2009, Mounce described his relationship to the ESV, having accepted a position on the NIV translation committee:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Standard_Version
-
- Guru
- Posts: 2113
- Joined: Sat May 04, 2024 7:12 am
- Has thanked: 41 times
- Been thanked: 60 times
Re: With God, nothing is impossible.
Post #83ESV is being described as a word for word literal Bible translation, meaning aims to maintain close to the original languages (Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts), more accurate and readable translation than the KJV and was based on many manuscripts including the Dead Sea Scrolls. While the KJV was not mentioned as a word for word translation. See below;marke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 16, 2025 6:11 amMarke: I have studied translations and therefore support the KJV but not the ESV.Capbook wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:48 amI beg to differ, below were the translators of ESV;marke wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:08 pmMarke: The ESV is a flawed translation written by flawed scholars.Capbook wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 3:11 amGood point, but ESV is not a paraphrase translation.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 7:01 pmKing James Version: John 1:18: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Mar 08, 2025 10:33 pmWhy callest thou me good? not that He denied that He was so, for He was good, both as God and man, in His divine and human natures, Jesus was goodness itself, and did good and nothing else but good. But the reason of the question is, because this young man considered Him only as a mere man, and gave Him this character as such, and which in comparison of God, the fountain of all goodness, agrees with no mere man: wherefore our Lord's view is, by His own language; and from His own words, to instruct him in the knowledge of His proper deity. The only one who have seen the Father, the begotten God Jesus.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Mar 08, 2025 9:53 pmThat's weak. Jesus himself considered himself to not be as good as the Father. It was his assessment. I won't argue with him. It's a flimsy argument to use that verse to prove that Jesus is God. And I don't see you presenting a verse that refers to "God the Son."marke wrote: ↑Fri Mar 07, 2025 5:22 pmMarke: There is none good but one, and that is Jesus and God.onewithhim wrote: ↑Fri Mar 07, 2025 10:31 amShow me where in the Bible the phrase "God the Son" appears. (There is none, and, conversely, "the Son of God" appears a number of times.)
Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Jhn 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known(ESV)
Jhn 1:18 (LSV) No one has ever seen God; the only begotten God who is on the bosom of the Father—He has expounded Him..
American Standard Version: John 1:18: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
Interlinear Bible, in Hebrew, Greek and English: John 1:18: "No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He reveals Him."
Your versions appear to be paraphrased. My versions are not.
The English Standard Version (ESV) is an "essentially literal" translation of the Bible in contemporary English. Created by a team of more than 100 leading evangelical scholars and pastors, the ESV Bible emphasizes "word-for-word" accuracy, literary excellence, and depth of meaning.
https://www.google.com/search?q=is+esv+ ... e&ie=UTF-8
Chaired by Dennis, the fourteen-member Translation Oversight Committee was aided by more than fifty biblical experts serving as review scholars. He also states that the translation committee meets approximately every 5–7 years to consider text revisions.
The original translation committee featured the following notable individuals:[26]
Wayne A. Grudem (Research Professor, Theology and Biblical Studies, Phoenix Seminary)
William D. Mounce (Professor of New Testament, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary)
J. I. Packer (Board of Governors Professor of Theology, Regent College, Vancouver, Canada)
Vern Sheridan Poythress (Professor of New Testament Interpretation, Westminster Theological Seminary; Editor, Westminster Theological Journal)
Gordon Wenham (Old Testament Tutor at Trinity College, Bristol; Emeritus Professor of Old Testament, University of Gloucestershire)
By 2011, Robert H. Mounce and William (Bill) Mounce had become emeritus members.[31] Having served as the ESV New Testament Chair, Bill Mounce's role was assigned to Vern Poythress.[14] Writing on his personal blog in 2009, Mounce described his relationship to the ESV, having accepted a position on the NIV translation committee:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Standard_Version
The ESV (English Standard Version) is a modern, "essentially literal" translation of the Bible, aiming for clarity and accuracy in contemporary English. It is an "essentially literal" translation, meaning it strives to be as close to the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts as possible. As it aims to maintain the literal accuracy of the text while providing clarity in modern English. It is considered a more accurate and readable translation than the KJV, and it is based on a wider array of manuscripts, including the Dead Sea Scrolls and earlier Greek texts.
The KJV (King James Version) is a classic, 17th-century translation known for its poetic and majestic language. It was translated from the Masoretic Hebrew text for the Old Testament and the Greek Textus Receptus for the New Testament. The translators aimed to create a unified and accessible Bible for English-speaking believers. Its poetic and timeless style has made it a literary classic, and it is highly regarded for its historical significance. The archaic language can be difficult for modern readers to understand, and some may find it less accurate than newer translations.
https://www.google.com/search?q=esv+vs+ ... e&ie=UTF-8
-
Onlineonewithhim
- Savant
- Posts: 11096
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
- Location: Norwich, CT
- Has thanked: 1576 times
- Been thanked: 467 times
Re: With God, nothing is impossible.
Post #84Most Bible versions are considered to be, as much as possible, word-for-word translations. Most of the time, since Greek and Hebrew and English are different languages, words always have to be added to get across the meaning of a verse. You'll notice that the KJV itself has added a plethora of words to round out the meanings. (Wherever you see a word in italics, that is an added word.) For example: John 1:17 & 18 are rendered thusly: "For the Law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." "But" and "him" were added by translators to round out the meaning. It is a word-for-word translation as much as it is possible to get across the full intent of the verses. Look through the KJV and see all the words in italics. Other versions do this also, such as the American Standard Version, the NASB, and the Darby translation, but most will follow the KJV in whatever it says, without specifying the added words.Capbook wrote: ↑Mon Mar 17, 2025 2:30 amESV is being described as a word for word literal Bible translation, meaning aims to maintain close to the original languages (Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts), more accurate and readable translation than the KJV and was based on many manuscripts including the Dead Sea Scrolls. While the KJV was not mentioned as a word for word translation. See below;marke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 16, 2025 6:11 amMarke: I have studied translations and therefore support the KJV but not the ESV.Capbook wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:48 amI beg to differ, below were the translators of ESV;marke wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:08 pmMarke: The ESV is a flawed translation written by flawed scholars.Capbook wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 3:11 amGood point, but ESV is not a paraphrase translation.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 7:01 pmKing James Version: John 1:18: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Mar 08, 2025 10:33 pmWhy callest thou me good? not that He denied that He was so, for He was good, both as God and man, in His divine and human natures, Jesus was goodness itself, and did good and nothing else but good. But the reason of the question is, because this young man considered Him only as a mere man, and gave Him this character as such, and which in comparison of God, the fountain of all goodness, agrees with no mere man: wherefore our Lord's view is, by His own language; and from His own words, to instruct him in the knowledge of His proper deity. The only one who have seen the Father, the begotten God Jesus.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Mar 08, 2025 9:53 pmThat's weak. Jesus himself considered himself to not be as good as the Father. It was his assessment. I won't argue with him. It's a flimsy argument to use that verse to prove that Jesus is God. And I don't see you presenting a verse that refers to "God the Son."marke wrote: ↑Fri Mar 07, 2025 5:22 pmMarke: There is none good but one, and that is Jesus and God.onewithhim wrote: ↑Fri Mar 07, 2025 10:31 am
Show me where in the Bible the phrase "God the Son" appears. (There is none, and, conversely, "the Son of God" appears a number of times.)
Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Jhn 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known(ESV)
Jhn 1:18 (LSV) No one has ever seen God; the only begotten God who is on the bosom of the Father—He has expounded Him..
American Standard Version: John 1:18: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
Interlinear Bible, in Hebrew, Greek and English: John 1:18: "No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He reveals Him."
Your versions appear to be paraphrased. My versions are not.
The English Standard Version (ESV) is an "essentially literal" translation of the Bible in contemporary English. Created by a team of more than 100 leading evangelical scholars and pastors, the ESV Bible emphasizes "word-for-word" accuracy, literary excellence, and depth of meaning.
https://www.google.com/search?q=is+esv+ ... e&ie=UTF-8
Chaired by Dennis, the fourteen-member Translation Oversight Committee was aided by more than fifty biblical experts serving as review scholars. He also states that the translation committee meets approximately every 5–7 years to consider text revisions.
The original translation committee featured the following notable individuals:[26]
Wayne A. Grudem (Research Professor, Theology and Biblical Studies, Phoenix Seminary)
William D. Mounce (Professor of New Testament, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary)
J. I. Packer (Board of Governors Professor of Theology, Regent College, Vancouver, Canada)
Vern Sheridan Poythress (Professor of New Testament Interpretation, Westminster Theological Seminary; Editor, Westminster Theological Journal)
Gordon Wenham (Old Testament Tutor at Trinity College, Bristol; Emeritus Professor of Old Testament, University of Gloucestershire)
By 2011, Robert H. Mounce and William (Bill) Mounce had become emeritus members.[31] Having served as the ESV New Testament Chair, Bill Mounce's role was assigned to Vern Poythress.[14] Writing on his personal blog in 2009, Mounce described his relationship to the ESV, having accepted a position on the NIV translation committee:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Standard_Version
The ESV (English Standard Version) is a modern, "essentially literal" translation of the Bible, aiming for clarity and accuracy in contemporary English. It is an "essentially literal" translation, meaning it strives to be as close to the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts as possible. As it aims to maintain the literal accuracy of the text while providing clarity in modern English. It is considered a more accurate and readable translation than the KJV, and it is based on a wider array of manuscripts, including the Dead Sea Scrolls and earlier Greek texts.
The KJV (King James Version) is a classic, 17th-century translation known for its poetic and majestic language. It was translated from the Masoretic Hebrew text for the Old Testament and the Greek Textus Receptus for the New Testament. The translators aimed to create a unified and accessible Bible for English-speaking believers. Its poetic and timeless style has made it a literary classic, and it is highly regarded for its historical significance. The archaic language can be difficult for modern readers to understand, and some may find it less accurate than newer translations.
https://www.google.com/search?q=esv+vs+ ... e&ie=UTF-8
I wouldn't say that the ESV is a word-for-word translation. It takes liberty with sentences, such as "No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known." In a footnote it admits that some manuscripts say "the only Son," instead of the only God. The Greek for John 1:18b is "in the bosom of the Father," not "who is at the Father's side," as the ESV has it. The ESV also takes the liberty of saying in a paragraph heading that "Jesus is equal with God." That is not what the following verse, John 5:18, actually says. It actually says that the Jews were accusing Jesus of making himself equal with God because Jesus claimed to be God's Son. In reality Jesus was not claiming to be God. The Jews considered his claiming to be God's Son as the same as claiming to be God, but they were in error. The ESV takes too many liberties.
-
- Guru
- Posts: 2113
- Joined: Sat May 04, 2024 7:12 am
- Has thanked: 41 times
- Been thanked: 60 times
Re: With God, nothing is impossible.
Post #85Capbook wrote: ↑Mon Mar 17, 2025 2:30 am ESV is being described as a word for word literal Bible translation, meaning aims to maintain close to the original languages (Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts), more accurate and readable translation than the KJV and was based on many manuscripts including the Dead Sea Scrolls. While the KJV was not mentioned as a word for word translation. See below;
The ESV (English Standard Version) is a modern, "essentially literal" translation of the Bible, aiming for clarity and accuracy in contemporary English. It is an "essentially literal" translation, meaning it strives to be as close to the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts as possible. As it aims to maintain the literal accuracy of the text while providing clarity in modern English. It is considered a more accurate and readable translation than the KJV, and it is based on a wider array of manuscripts, including the Dead Sea Scrolls and earlier Greek texts.
The KJV (King James Version) is a classic, 17th-century translation known for its poetic and majestic language. It was translated from the Masoretic Hebrew text for the Old Testament and the Greek Textus Receptus for the New Testament. The translators aimed to create a unified and accessible Bible for English-speaking believers. Its poetic and timeless style has made it a literary classic, and it is highly regarded for its historical significance. The archaic language can be difficult for modern readers to understand, and some may find it less accurate than newer translations.
https://www.google.com/search?q=esv+vs+ ... e&ie=UTF-8
They do not follow the KJV. If that is what you believe, do you accept how KJV rendered 1 John 5:7?onewithhim wrote:Most Bible versions are considered to be, as much as possible, word-for-word translations. Most of the time, since Greek and Hebrew and English are different languages, words always have to be added to get across the meaning of a verse. You'll notice that the KJV itself has added a plethora of words to round out the meanings. (Wherever you see a word in italics, that is an added word.) For example: John 1:17 & 18 are rendered thusly: "For the Law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." "But" and "him" were added by translators to round out the meaning. It is a word-for-word translation as much as it is possible to get across the full intent of the verses. Look through the KJV and see all the words in italics. Other versions do this also, such as the American Standard Version, the NASB, and the Darby translation, but most will follow the KJV in whatever it says, without specifying the added words.
It's not only ESV that says Jesus is God, many other literal word for word translations said so;onewithhim wrote:I wouldn't say that the ESV is a word-for-word translation. It takes liberty with sentences, such as "No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known." In a footnote it admits that some manuscripts say "the only Son," instead of the only God. The Greek for John 1:18b is "in the bosom of the Father," not "who is at the Father's side," as the ESV has it. The ESV also takes the liberty of saying in a paragraph heading that "Jesus is equal with God." That is not what the following verse, John 5:18, actually says. It actually says that the Jews were accusing Jesus of making himself equal with God because Jesus claimed to be God's Son. In reality Jesus was not claiming to be God. The Jews considered his claiming to be God's Son as the same as claiming to be God, but they were in error. The ESV takes too many liberties.
John 1:18
(Literal Standard Version)No one has ever seen God; the only begotten God who is on the bosom of the Father He has expounded Him.
(Updated ASV+) No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God N7 who is in the bosom of the Father, N8 that one has made him fully known.
(Lexham English Bible) No one has seen God at any time; the one and only, God, the one who is in the bosom of the Father—that one has made him known.
(Tree of Life Version) No one has ever seen God; but the one and only God, in the Father’s embrace, has made Him known.
(NRSV Updated Edition) No one has ever seen God. It is the only Son, himself God, who is close to the Father’s heart, who has made him known.
(NAS95) No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
- 1213
- Savant
- Posts: 12751
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:06 am
- Location: Finland
- Has thanked: 447 times
- Been thanked: 468 times
Re: With God, nothing is impossible.
Post #86Interesting, all translations I know say "begotten son". For example Greens' literal. Would be nice to know where do your translations get the word God, instead the word son.Capbook wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 3:54 am ....It's not only ESV that says Jesus is God, many other literal word for word translations said so;
John 1:18
(Literal Standard Version)No one has ever seen God; the only begotten God who is on the bosom of the Father He has expounded Him.
(Updated ASV+) No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God N7 who is in the bosom of the Father, N8 that one has made him fully known.
(Lexham English Bible) No one has seen God at any time; the one and only, God, the one who is in the bosom of the Father—that one has made him known.
(Tree of Life Version) No one has ever seen God; but the one and only God, in the Father’s embrace, has made Him known.
(NRSV Updated Edition) No one has ever seen God. It is the only Son, himself God, who is close to the Father’s heart, who has made him known.
(NAS95) No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, that One reveals Him .
John 1:18
But, if your translation is correct, does it mean no one has ever seen Jesus? Or do you mean Jesus is not the begotten God?
My new book can be read freely from here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rIkqxC ... xtqFY/view
Old version can be read from here:
http://web.archive.org/web/202212010403 ... x_eng.html
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rIkqxC ... xtqFY/view
Old version can be read from here:
http://web.archive.org/web/202212010403 ... x_eng.html
-
- Guru
- Posts: 2113
- Joined: Sat May 04, 2024 7:12 am
- Has thanked: 41 times
- Been thanked: 60 times
Re: With God, nothing is impossible.
Post #87My quoted translations are correct, and also yours, just acknowledge that the Son have the nature of God.1213 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 20, 2025 5:55 amInteresting, all translations I know say "begotten son". For example Greens' literal. Would be nice to know where do your translations get the word God, instead the word son.Capbook wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 3:54 am ....It's not only ESV that says Jesus is God, many other literal word for word translations said so;
John 1:18
(Literal Standard Version)No one has ever seen God; the only begotten God who is on the bosom of the Father He has expounded Him.
(Updated ASV+) No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God N7 who is in the bosom of the Father, N8 that one has made him fully known.
(Lexham English Bible) No one has seen God at any time; the one and only, God, the one who is in the bosom of the Father—that one has made him known.
(Tree of Life Version) No one has ever seen God; but the one and only God, in the Father’s embrace, has made Him known.
(NRSV Updated Edition) No one has ever seen God. It is the only Son, himself God, who is close to the Father’s heart, who has made him known.
(NAS95) No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, that One reveals Him .
John 1:18
But, if your translation is correct, does it mean no one has ever seen Jesus? Or do you mean Jesus is not the begotten God?
In addition here, it does have Strong's Concordance #G2316, and Wescott and Hort have that Greek "θεον G2316 and θεος G2316.
It refer to "theos" defined by Bible lexicon as Christ, the second person of the Trinity.
(NAS95+) R1 No G3762 one G3762 has seen G3708 God G2316 at any G4455 time G4455 ; R2 the only G3439 begotten G3439 God G2316 who is R3 in the bosom G2859 of the Father G3962 , R4 He has explained G1834 Him.
(Greek NT Wescott and Hort+) θεον G2316 N-ASM ουδεις G3762 A-NSM-N εωρακεν G3708 V-RAI-3S-ATT πωποτε G4455 ADV μονογενης G3439 A-NSM θεος G2316 N-NSM ο G3588 T-NSM ων G1510 V-PAP-NSM εις G1519 PREP τον G3588 T-ASM κολπον G2859 N-ASM του G3588 T-GSM πατρος G3962 N-GSM εκεινος G1565 D-NSM εξηγησατο G1834 V-ADI-3S
G2316 (Thayer)
θεός theos
Thayer Definition:
1) a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities
2) the Godhead, trinity
2a) God the Father, the first person in the trinity
2b) Christ, the second person of the trinity
2c) Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity
3) spoken of the only and true God
3a) refers to the things of God
3b) his counsels, interests, things due to him
-
Onlineonewithhim
- Savant
- Posts: 11096
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
- Location: Norwich, CT
- Has thanked: 1576 times
- Been thanked: 467 times
Re: With God, nothing is impossible.
Post #88The Son has the nature of God because they are BOTH SPIRITS. That is what their actual nature means. The angels are spirits also but are not God.Capbook wrote: ↑Thu Mar 20, 2025 6:40 amMy quoted translations are correct, and also yours, just acknowledge that the Son have the nature of God.1213 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 20, 2025 5:55 amInteresting, all translations I know say "begotten son". For example Greens' literal. Would be nice to know where do your translations get the word God, instead the word son.Capbook wrote: ↑Wed Mar 19, 2025 3:54 am ....It's not only ESV that says Jesus is God, many other literal word for word translations said so;
John 1:18
(Literal Standard Version)No one has ever seen God; the only begotten God who is on the bosom of the Father He has expounded Him.
(Updated ASV+) No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God N7 who is in the bosom of the Father, N8 that one has made him fully known.
(Lexham English Bible) No one has seen God at any time; the one and only, God, the one who is in the bosom of the Father—that one has made him known.
(Tree of Life Version) No one has ever seen God; but the one and only God, in the Father’s embrace, has made Him known.
(NRSV Updated Edition) No one has ever seen God. It is the only Son, himself God, who is close to the Father’s heart, who has made him known.
(NAS95) No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, that One reveals Him .
John 1:18
But, if your translation is correct, does it mean no one has ever seen Jesus? Or do you mean Jesus is not the begotten God?
In addition here, it does have Strong's Concordance #G2316, and Wescott and Hort have that Greek "θεον G2316 and θεος G2316.
It refer to "theos" defined by Bible lexicon as Christ, the second person of the Trinity.
(NAS95+) R1 No G3762 one G3762 has seen G3708 God G2316 at any G4455 time G4455 ; R2 the only G3439 begotten G3439 God G2316 who is R3 in the bosom G2859 of the Father G3962 , R4 He has explained G1834 Him.
(Greek NT Wescott and Hort+) θεον G2316 N-ASM ουδεις G3762 A-NSM-N εωρακεν G3708 V-RAI-3S-ATT πωποτε G4455 ADV μονογενης G3439 A-NSM θεος G2316 N-NSM ο G3588 T-NSM ων G1510 V-PAP-NSM εις G1519 PREP τον G3588 T-ASM κολπον G2859 N-ASM του G3588 T-GSM πατρος G3962 N-GSM εκεινος G1565 D-NSM εξηγησατο G1834 V-ADI-3S
G2316 (Thayer)
θεός theos
Thayer Definition:
1) a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities
2) the Godhead, trinity
2a) God the Father, the first person in the trinity
2b) Christ, the second person of the trinity
2c) Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity
3) spoken of the only and true God
3a) refers to the things of God
3b) his counsels, interests, things due to him
The #1 of your Thayer says: "a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities." Explain that please.
-
- Banned
- Posts: 1079
- Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2025 1:42 am
- Has thanked: 36 times
- Been thanked: 24 times
Re: With God, nothing is impossible.
Post #89Marke: Sadly, the ESV was overly influenced by corrupted manuscripts that were rejected by the KJV translators.Capbook wrote: ↑Mon Mar 17, 2025 2:30 amESV is being described as a word for word literal Bible translation, meaning aims to maintain close to the original languages (Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts), more accurate and readable translation than the KJV and was based on many manuscripts including the Dead Sea Scrolls. While the KJV was not mentioned as a word for word translation. See below;marke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 16, 2025 6:11 amMarke: I have studied translations and therefore support the KJV but not the ESV.Capbook wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:48 amI beg to differ, below were the translators of ESV;marke wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:08 pmMarke: The ESV is a flawed translation written by flawed scholars.Capbook wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 3:11 amGood point, but ESV is not a paraphrase translation.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 7:01 pmKing James Version: John 1:18: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Mar 08, 2025 10:33 pmWhy callest thou me good? not that He denied that He was so, for He was good, both as God and man, in His divine and human natures, Jesus was goodness itself, and did good and nothing else but good. But the reason of the question is, because this young man considered Him only as a mere man, and gave Him this character as such, and which in comparison of God, the fountain of all goodness, agrees with no mere man: wherefore our Lord's view is, by His own language; and from His own words, to instruct him in the knowledge of His proper deity. The only one who have seen the Father, the begotten God Jesus.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Mar 08, 2025 9:53 pmThat's weak. Jesus himself considered himself to not be as good as the Father. It was his assessment. I won't argue with him. It's a flimsy argument to use that verse to prove that Jesus is God. And I don't see you presenting a verse that refers to "God the Son."marke wrote: ↑Fri Mar 07, 2025 5:22 pmMarke: There is none good but one, and that is Jesus and God.onewithhim wrote: ↑Fri Mar 07, 2025 10:31 am
Show me where in the Bible the phrase "God the Son" appears. (There is none, and, conversely, "the Son of God" appears a number of times.)
Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Jhn 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known(ESV)
Jhn 1:18 (LSV) No one has ever seen God; the only begotten God who is on the bosom of the Father—He has expounded Him..
American Standard Version: John 1:18: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
Interlinear Bible, in Hebrew, Greek and English: John 1:18: "No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He reveals Him."
Your versions appear to be paraphrased. My versions are not.
The English Standard Version (ESV) is an "essentially literal" translation of the Bible in contemporary English. Created by a team of more than 100 leading evangelical scholars and pastors, the ESV Bible emphasizes "word-for-word" accuracy, literary excellence, and depth of meaning.
https://www.google.com/search?q=is+esv+ ... e&ie=UTF-8
Chaired by Dennis, the fourteen-member Translation Oversight Committee was aided by more than fifty biblical experts serving as review scholars. He also states that the translation committee meets approximately every 5–7 years to consider text revisions.
The original translation committee featured the following notable individuals:[26]
Wayne A. Grudem (Research Professor, Theology and Biblical Studies, Phoenix Seminary)
William D. Mounce (Professor of New Testament, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary)
J. I. Packer (Board of Governors Professor of Theology, Regent College, Vancouver, Canada)
Vern Sheridan Poythress (Professor of New Testament Interpretation, Westminster Theological Seminary; Editor, Westminster Theological Journal)
Gordon Wenham (Old Testament Tutor at Trinity College, Bristol; Emeritus Professor of Old Testament, University of Gloucestershire)
By 2011, Robert H. Mounce and William (Bill) Mounce had become emeritus members.[31] Having served as the ESV New Testament Chair, Bill Mounce's role was assigned to Vern Poythress.[14] Writing on his personal blog in 2009, Mounce described his relationship to the ESV, having accepted a position on the NIV translation committee:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Standard_Version
The ESV (English Standard Version) is a modern, "essentially literal" translation of the Bible, aiming for clarity and accuracy in contemporary English. It is an "essentially literal" translation, meaning it strives to be as close to the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts as possible. As it aims to maintain the literal accuracy of the text while providing clarity in modern English. It is considered a more accurate and readable translation than the KJV, and it is based on a wider array of manuscripts, including the Dead Sea Scrolls and earlier Greek texts.
The KJV (King James Version) is a classic, 17th-century translation known for its poetic and majestic language. It was translated from the Masoretic Hebrew text for the Old Testament and the Greek Textus Receptus for the New Testament. The translators aimed to create a unified and accessible Bible for English-speaking believers. Its poetic and timeless style has made it a literary classic, and it is highly regarded for its historical significance. The archaic language can be difficult for modern readers to understand, and some may find it less accurate than newer translations.
https://www.google.com/search?q=esv+vs+ ... e&ie=UTF-8
-
- Guru
- Posts: 2113
- Joined: Sat May 04, 2024 7:12 am
- Has thanked: 41 times
- Been thanked: 60 times
Re: With God, nothing is impossible.
Post #90It might because they differ in sources, the NT textual basis of KJV based heavily on Textus Receptus, while ESV NT texts are based from UBS, na28 (Novum Testamentum Graece), Septuagint and Vulgate.marke wrote: ↑Sat Mar 22, 2025 4:50 pmMarke: Sadly, the ESV was overly influenced by corrupted manuscripts that were rejected by the KJV translators.Capbook wrote: ↑Mon Mar 17, 2025 2:30 amESV is being described as a word for word literal Bible translation, meaning aims to maintain close to the original languages (Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts), more accurate and readable translation than the KJV and was based on many manuscripts including the Dead Sea Scrolls. While the KJV was not mentioned as a word for word translation. See below;marke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 16, 2025 6:11 amMarke: I have studied translations and therefore support the KJV but not the ESV.Capbook wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 3:48 amI beg to differ, below were the translators of ESV;marke wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:08 pmMarke: The ESV is a flawed translation written by flawed scholars.Capbook wrote: ↑Mon Mar 10, 2025 3:11 amGood point, but ESV is not a paraphrase translation.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sun Mar 09, 2025 7:01 pmKing James Version: John 1:18: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Mar 08, 2025 10:33 pmWhy callest thou me good? not that He denied that He was so, for He was good, both as God and man, in His divine and human natures, Jesus was goodness itself, and did good and nothing else but good. But the reason of the question is, because this young man considered Him only as a mere man, and gave Him this character as such, and which in comparison of God, the fountain of all goodness, agrees with no mere man: wherefore our Lord's view is, by His own language; and from His own words, to instruct him in the knowledge of His proper deity. The only one who have seen the Father, the begotten God Jesus.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Mar 08, 2025 9:53 pmThat's weak. Jesus himself considered himself to not be as good as the Father. It was his assessment. I won't argue with him. It's a flimsy argument to use that verse to prove that Jesus is God. And I don't see you presenting a verse that refers to "God the Son."
Jhn 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known(ESV)
Jhn 1:18 (LSV) No one has ever seen God; the only begotten God who is on the bosom of the Father—He has expounded Him..
American Standard Version: John 1:18: "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
Interlinear Bible, in Hebrew, Greek and English: John 1:18: "No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He reveals Him."
Your versions appear to be paraphrased. My versions are not.
The English Standard Version (ESV) is an "essentially literal" translation of the Bible in contemporary English. Created by a team of more than 100 leading evangelical scholars and pastors, the ESV Bible emphasizes "word-for-word" accuracy, literary excellence, and depth of meaning.
https://www.google.com/search?q=is+esv+ ... e&ie=UTF-8
Chaired by Dennis, the fourteen-member Translation Oversight Committee was aided by more than fifty biblical experts serving as review scholars. He also states that the translation committee meets approximately every 5–7 years to consider text revisions.
The original translation committee featured the following notable individuals:[26]
Wayne A. Grudem (Research Professor, Theology and Biblical Studies, Phoenix Seminary)
William D. Mounce (Professor of New Testament, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary)
J. I. Packer (Board of Governors Professor of Theology, Regent College, Vancouver, Canada)
Vern Sheridan Poythress (Professor of New Testament Interpretation, Westminster Theological Seminary; Editor, Westminster Theological Journal)
Gordon Wenham (Old Testament Tutor at Trinity College, Bristol; Emeritus Professor of Old Testament, University of Gloucestershire)
By 2011, Robert H. Mounce and William (Bill) Mounce had become emeritus members.[31] Having served as the ESV New Testament Chair, Bill Mounce's role was assigned to Vern Poythress.[14] Writing on his personal blog in 2009, Mounce described his relationship to the ESV, having accepted a position on the NIV translation committee:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Standard_Version
The ESV (English Standard Version) is a modern, "essentially literal" translation of the Bible, aiming for clarity and accuracy in contemporary English. It is an "essentially literal" translation, meaning it strives to be as close to the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts as possible. As it aims to maintain the literal accuracy of the text while providing clarity in modern English. It is considered a more accurate and readable translation than the KJV, and it is based on a wider array of manuscripts, including the Dead Sea Scrolls and earlier Greek texts.
The KJV (King James Version) is a classic, 17th-century translation known for its poetic and majestic language. It was translated from the Masoretic Hebrew text for the Old Testament and the Greek Textus Receptus for the New Testament. The translators aimed to create a unified and accessible Bible for English-speaking believers. Its poetic and timeless style has made it a literary classic, and it is highly regarded for its historical significance. The archaic language can be difficult for modern readers to understand, and some may find it less accurate than newer translations.
https://www.google.com/search?q=esv+vs+ ... e&ie=UTF-8