What is "a god?"

[placebofactor]

Men have imagined many myths, legends, idols, gods, goddesses, heroes, demons, angels, saints, sun gods, moon gods, the gods of the hills, and the thousands of gods of ancient Egypt, Assyria, Persia, Babylon, Greece, and Rome; if gathered together in one place their images would fill the Smithsonian or the Colosseum in Rome.

There are those on this forum that claim Jesus Christ is not the true God. If this is true, he must be a false god like all other gods mentioned above because there is only one true God. And if Jesus is only “a god” what is he the god of?

My Bible claims the true God or Jehovah as some prefer to call him is perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness and is to be worshipped by his faithful followers. The LORD is both the Creator and ruler of the universe; and in the Old Testament, he is called, “I Am, Elohim, or Jehovah.”

So, if Jesus Christ is only “a god,” he is not worthy of any Christian’s love, honor, or respect.

Some claim we can pay obeisance to Jesus, but we cannot worship him. If we can pay obeisance to Jesus who is only "a god," why would it be wrong to bow a knee to any man who claims to be God, or even Satan who is the prince of the power of the air?

[tygger2]

[Replying to A Freeman in post #70]

Isaiah 9:6

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace."

All Christians, I believe, accept this son as being the Christ. Some will tell you that since the meaning of this symbolic name includes the words "Mighty God, Eternal Father," then Jesus is the Mighty God and the Eternal Father."

But there are at least two other ways this personal name has been interpreted by reputable Bible scholars. (1) The titles found within the name (e.g., "Mighty God") are intended in their secondary, subordinate senses. (2) The titles within the name are meant to praise God the Father, not the Messiah.

First, there is the possibility that the words (or titles) found in the literal meaning of the name apply directly to the Messiah all right but in a subordinate sense. In other words, Christ is "a mighty god" in the same sense that God's angels were called "gods" and the judges of Israel were called "gods" by God himself (also by Jesus - John 10:34, 35), and Moses was called "a god" by Jehovah himself.

Yes, men and angels were called gods (elohim - Hebrew; theos - Greek) in a proper, but subordinate, sense by Jehovah and his inspired Bible writers. Although they were given this elevated title in a proper sense (not false gods), it was obviously with the clear understanding that it in no way implied a comparison with the Most High, Only True God. (A bank employee calling his boss, the head of the bank, "the president" would certainly not imply an equality of position, power, etc. with "The President" [of the USA].)

The word "god" as understood by those who used that term simply meant a "mighty one" - see Young's Concordance. In fact the word "Mighty" as found at Is. 9:6 (Gibbor in the original Hebrew) is also applied to the angels at Ps. 103:20 (see a modern concordance such as the New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible). It is interesting that the ancient translation of the Old Testament that Jesus frequently quoted, the Septuagint Version, renders Is. 9:6: "and his [the Messiah's] name is called the Angel [aggeloV, messenger] of Great Counsel."

The very early (ca. 160 A.D.) Christian Justin Martyr quoted Is. 9:6 also as "The Angel of mighty counsel" - "Dialogue With Trypho," ch. LXXVI.

So, just as "Lord" was applied to anyone in authority: angels, masters over servants, husbands, etc., so, too, could "god" be applied to anyone (good or bad) who was considered a "mighty person." Of course only one person could be called the "Most High God," or the "Only True God," or the "Almighty God"!

In the same way, "Eternal Father" could mean that the Messiah is one who has been given eternal life and through him God has brought eternal life to many others. (We might make the comparison that the Heavenly Father has brought men to life in this world through their earthly fathers.) This would be intended in a clearly subordinate sense and not to take anything away from the ultimate honor, glory, worship, etc. due the Most High God and Father in heaven - Jehovah.

At any rate, even trinitarians do not confuse the two separate persons of the Father and the Son. They do not say the Son is the Father. They say the Father and the Son are two separate individual persons who are equally "God"!

Therefore, since we obviously cannot take "Eternal Father" in the literal sense to mean that Jesus is the Father, we cannot take the rest of that same name (esp. `Mighty God') in its literal highest sense and say that Jesus is Mighty God, etc., either.

In addition to the distinct possibility of the use of the secondary subordinate meanings of the titles such as "God/god" as explained by Bible language scholars, we can see by the actual renderings of some trinitarian Bible translators at Is. 9:6 that they believe such subordinate meanings were intended by the inspired Bible writer.

Instead of "Mighty God," Dr. James Moffatt translated this part of Is. 9:6 as "a divine hero;" Byington has "Divine Champion;" The New English Bible has "In Battle Godlike;" The Catholic New American Bible (1970 and 1991 revision) renders it "God-Hero;" and the REB says "Mighty Hero." Even that most-respected of Biblical Hebrew language experts, Gesenius, translated it "mighty hero" - p. 45, Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon.

Also, The NIV Study Bible, in a f.n. for Ps 45:6, tells us:

"In this psalm, which praises the king and especially extols his `splendor and majesty' (v. 3), it is not unthinkable that he was called `god' as a title of honor [cf. Isa 9:6]." (Bracketed information included in original footnote. Emphasis is mine)

In addition, Rotherham has rendered "Eternal Father" as "father of progress," and the New English Bible translates it: "father of a wide realm."

The above-mentioned Bible translations by trinitarian scholars which apply the words in the name at Is. 9:6 in a subordinate sense directly to Jesus clearly show that they do not believe this scripture implies an equality with Jehovah the Father.

But, some may ask, if ‘a mighty god’ were intended in this name, why is “God” given a capital ‘G’ in most translations of this name?

The answer is that in English translations of names we often find the major words within a name (or title) are capitalized. This is similar to the way book titles, names of buildings, ships, etc. are written in English. ‘The Lord of the Rings,’ ‘The World Trade Center,’ ‘The Empire State Building,’ ‘Allure of the Seas’ (cruise ship), etc., are modern examples.

........................

And second, and more likely, another way competent Bible scholars have interpreted the meaning of this name is with the understanding that it (as with many, if not most, of the other Israelites' personal names) does not apply directly to the Messiah (as we can see with "Elijah," "Abijah," etc.) but is, instead, a statement praising the Father, Jehovah God.

Personal names in the ancient Hebrew and Greek are often somewhat cryptic to us today. The English Bible translator must fill in the missing minor words (especially in names composed of two or more Hebrew words) such as "my," "is," "of," etc. in whatever way he thinks best in order to make sense for us today in English.

For instance, two of the best Bible concordances (Young's and Strong's) and a popular trinitarian Bible dictionary (Today's Dictionary of the Bible) differ greatly on the exact meaning of many Biblical personal names because of those "minor" words which must be added to bring out the intended meaning.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, for example, says the name "Elimelech" (which is literally just "God King") means "God of (the) King." Young's Analytical Concordance says it means "God is King." Today's Dictionary of the Bible says it means " God his king" - p. 206, Bethany House Publ., 1982. And an online meaning is given as “My God is the King.” - http://www.kveller.com/jewish_names/dis ... lech&k=840

And, “God is my King.” - http://www.jhom.com/calendar/sivan/symbolism.htm .

I haven’t found any scholar/translator who says the name of Elimelech should be translated with its literal meaning of “God King.”

Those missing minor words that the translator must supply at his own discretion can often make a vital difference! - For example, the footnote for Gen. 17:5 in The NIV Study Bible: The name 'Abram' "means `Exalted Father,' probably in reference to God (i.e., `[God is] Exalted Father')."- Brackets in original.

This is why another name the Messiah is to be called by at Jer. 23:6 is rendered, `The LORD [YHWH] is Our Righteousness' in the following Bibles: RSV; NRSV; NEB; NJB; JPS (Margolis, ed.); Tanakh; Byington; AT; and ASV (footnote). Of course other translations render it more literally by calling the Messiah "The LORD [YHWH] Our Righteousness" to help support a `Jesus is God' doctrine. Some of these (such as the NASB) actually render the very same name at Jer. 33:16 as "The LORD [or Jehovah] is Our Righteousness"! - [bracketed information is mine].

(Unfortunately for "Jesus is Jehovah" advocates, the very same name given to the Messiah at Jer. 23:16 is given to a city at Jer. 33:16.)

But perhaps most instructive of all is the name given to the prophet’s child in Isaiah 8:3 shortly before his giving the name found in Is. 9:6.

Is. 8:3
Maher-shalal-hash-baz: Literally, “spoil speeds prey hastes” or “swift booty speedy prey.” Translated by various Bible scholars as: “In making speed to the spoil he hasteneth the prey” - - “swift [is] booty, speedy [is] prey” - - “the spoil speeded, the prey hasteth” - - “Speeding for spoil, hastening for plunder” - - “There will soon be looting and stealing”- - “Speeding is the spoil, Hastening is the prey” - - “The Looting Will Come Quickly; the Prey Will Be Easy” - - “Take sway the spoils with speed, quickly take the prey” - - “Swift is the booty, speedy is the prey” - - “Swift the Spoils of War and Speedy Comes the Attacker” - - “Make haste to plunder! Hurry to the spoil!” - - “Make haste to the spoil; fall upon the prey.”

And John Gill wrote:

“‘hasten to seize the prey, and to take away the spoil.’ Some translate it, ‘in hastening the prey, the spoiler hastens’; perhaps it may be better rendered, ‘hasten to the spoil, hasten to the prey.’”

Therefore, the personal name at Is. 9:6 has been honestly translated as:

"And his name is called: Wonderful in counsel is God the Mighty, the everlasting Father, the Ruler of peace" - The Holy Scriptures, JPS Version (Margolis, ed.) to show that it is intended to praise the God of the Messiah who performs great things through the Messiah.

‘For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called, ‘Wonderful, Counselor [IS] The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.’ The two letter word ‘is,’ is usually not stated in Hebrew. Rather, the ‘is’ is understood.” - https://edward-t-babinski.blogspot.com/ ... y-god.html

The Leeser Bible also translates it:

“Wonderful, counsellor of the mighty God, of the everlasting Father, the prince of peace”

Also, An American Translation (by trinitarians Smith and Goodspeed) says:
"Wonderful counselor is God almighty, Father forever, Prince of peace."

From the Is. 9:6 footnote in the trinity-supporting NET Bible:

".... some have suggested that one to three of the titles that follow ['called'] refer to God, not the king. For example, the traditional punctuation of the Hebrew text suggests the translation, 'and the Extraordinary Strategist, the Mighty God calls his name, "Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."'"

And,

‘Wonderful in counsel is God the mighty, the Everlasting Father, the Ruler of Peace’ (Hertz 1968).

Of course it could also be honestly translated: "Wonderful Counselor and Mighty God is the Eternal Father of the Prince of Peace."

And the Tanakh by the JPS, 1985, translates it:

[1]"The Mighty God is planning grace;
[2] The Eternal Father [is] a peaceable ruler."

This latter translation seems particularly appropriate since it is in the form of a parallelism. Not only was the previous symbolic personal name introduced by Isaiah at Is. 8:1 a parallelism ("Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz" means [1]"quick to the plunder; [2] swift to the spoil" - NIV footnote) but the very introduction to this Messianic name at Is. 9:6 is itself a parallelism: [1]"For unto us a child is born; [2] unto us a son is given." It would, therefore, be appropriate to find that this name, too, was in the form of a parallelism as translated by the Tanakh above.

So it is clear, even to a number of trinitarian scholars, that Is. 9:6 does not imply that Jesus is Jehovah God.

[servant1]

[Replying to Capbook in post #66]

That is Gods name in Hebrew--We do not speak Hebrew. FACT=Our translations are in English.

Yes, your FACT=English but used the Latinized of the Tetragrammaton. Bear in mind Latin is not English.

Jehovah is the true living God=100% reality.

[Bible_Student]

To answer the topic question...
"a god" is what the inhabitants of the island of Malta thought Paul was when they saw that the poisonous snake didn't kill him (Acts 18:6);
"a god" is what the Roman citizens believed Herod deserved to be considered when he gave his political speech (Acts 12:22),
and "a god" was what the Jews believed Jesus preached about himself.

So many "human" gods in the mythologies and beliefs that surrounded them thet they no longer even understood what Jesus meant when he said God was his Father. Although angels may have been considered divine or God-like beings in ancient Jewish beliefs, that would never equate them with God in authority, knowledge, power, or position. Even in polytheistic religions, there is often a Father of the gods or supreme God.

Psal. 89:5 And the heavens will laud your marvelous act, O Jehovah,
Yes, your faithfulness in the congregation of the holy ones.
 6 For who in the skies can be compared to Jehovah?
Who can resemble Jehovah among the sons of God?
 7 God is to be held in awe among the intimate group of holy ones;
He is grand and fear-inspiring over all who are round about him.
 8 O Jehovah God of armies,
Who is vigorous like you, O Jah?
And your faithfulness is all around you.

Jesus declared to his Father that He is "the only true God" (John 17:3). In doing so, Jesus acknowledged the existence of many gods in the world, a FACT echoed by Paul in 1 Cor. 8:6. However, by stating "the only true [one]," Jesus was clarifying that there is no god/deity that can be compared to His Father, emphasizing that no other "god" is like Him.

Psal. 29:1 Ascribe to Jehovah, O YOU sons of strong ones,
Ascribe to Jehovah glory and strength.
 2 Ascribe to Jehovah the glory of his name.
Bow down to Jehovah in holy adornment.

In my native language, we utilize the term "true" to set apart an individual from those who share similarities, highlighting that this individual is unique, distinct, and identifiable from others who may be compared. For instance, when we say "that is what it means to be a true doctor," we are not suggesting that other doctors do not qualify, but rather that a true doctor embodies specific traits. Jesus referring to His Father as "the only true God" clearly indicates that He would never have even contemplated being viewed himself (or any other) as equal to His Father, his own God. Similarly, when we use the singular definite article, we are considering the subject referred to as specific, the only one we are referring to with any noun we use. When we say "the Sun," we are not saying that other suns don't exist, but rather we are referring to one specific one, our Sun, the one at the center of our solar system.

John 1:1 ...

ὁ λόγος
ἦν πρὸς
τὸν θεόν,

καὶ θεὸς
ἦν
ὁ λόγος

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Capbook in post #66]

That is Gods name in Hebrew--We do not speak Hebrew. FACT=Our translations are in English.

Yes, your FACT=English but used the Latinized of the Tetragrammaton. Bear in mind Latin is not English.

But the Tetragrammaton = God's personal name, whether Latinized or not. Google "Tetragrammaton" and you will see the Hebrew letters of God's name.