A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

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A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #1

Post by mms20102 »

In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful

Friends, to keep the conversation clear and strictly text‑based, I propose we follow five prophetic milestones. After each milestone comes one focused question. Let’s address them in sequence—no flooding, no diversions, Scripture only.


  • The Unrevoked Promise to Ishmael
Genesis 17 :20 – “As for Ishmael, I have heard you… I will make him a great nation.”
Nowhere is this promise annulled. Later, Isaiah envisions praise and accepted offerings from Kedar and Nebaioth (Isa 42 :11; 60 :6‑7).

Q‑1: Through what historical development does that “great nation” promise reach its intended fullness?



  • Paran—A Second Dawn of Revelation
Deuteronomy 33 :2 – “The LORD… shone forth from Mount Paran.”
Habakkuk 3 :3 repeats the scene. Paran lies in the Arabian wilderness.

Q‑2: Which later revelation best satisfies the description of God’s light shining from Paran?



  • The Prophet “Like Moses” (Deut 18 :15‑19)

Key features:

risen after Moses,

bearer of a decisive law,

must be listened to on pain of judgment.


Q‑3: Who, according to the canonical texts, most completely matches that profile?




  • The Comforter / Spirit of Truth (John 14‑16)
Jesus promises “another Comforter” who will come only after His departure, “speak what he hears,” and guide into all truth.
The Holy Spirit was already active before the Ascension (Luke 3 :22; John 20 :22).

Q‑4: Who is the promised Comforter - distinct messenger who completes universal guidance?



  • The Stone‑Kingdom & “A Nation Producing Its Fruit”
Daniel 2 ends with a Stone that shatters the statue‑empires and becomes a mountain filling the earth (Dan 2 :34‑35, 44‑45).
Jesus echoes the hand‑over:
“The kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation producing its fruit.” (Matt 21 :43)

Q‑5: Which empires did the “Stone” of Daniel’s vision topple, and today, which nation best displays the fruits Jesus spoke of—justice, a lived‑out revealed law, and unwavering devotion to the one God?




Guidelines

1. One question at a time. We start with Q‑1; only after it’s answered do we move to Q‑2.


2. Primary texts only—Torah, Prophets, Gospels, Qur’an. No tertiary links.


3. Keep it concise. One tight paragraph beats a page of quotations.


Supporting verses about a coming prophet from Quran

"Our Lord! Raise from among them a messenger who will recite to them Your revelations, teach them the Book and wisdom, and purify them. Indeed, You ˹alone˺ are the Almighty, All-Wise.” (Abraham and Ishmael) Q 2:129

"Just like We have sent among you a messenger from yourselves reciting to you Our verses and purifying you and teaching you the Book and wisdom and teaching you that which you did not know." Q 2:151


"when Allah made a covenant with the prophets, ˹saying,˺ “Now that I have given you the Book and wisdom, if there comes to you a messenger confirming what you have, you must believe in him and support him.” He added, “Do you affirm this covenant and accept this commitment?” They said, “Yes, we do.” Allah said, “Then bear witness, and I too am a Witness with you.” Q 3:81


"the ones who follow the Messenger, the unlettered [Gentile] Prophet, whose description they find in their Torah and the Gospel. He commands them to do good and forbids them from evil, permits for them what is lawful and forbids to them what is impure, and relieves them from their burdens and the shackles that bound them. those who believe in him, honor and support him, and follow the light sent down to him will be successful."
Q 7:157




"It is He who has sent among the unlettered [Gentiles] a Messenger from themselves reciting to them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the Book and wisdom - although they were before in clear error"
Q 62:2





May God help us seek truth and never shame us for doing so.

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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #31

Post by 1213 »

mms20102 wrote: Tue Jun 10, 2025 8:19 pm
1213 wrote: Sun May 18, 2025 10:57 pm
mms20102 wrote: Sun May 18, 2025 7:35 pm ...Acts like kissing the Black Stone are not acts of worship...
Do you know why it is done?
I’m starting to question the relevance of these recent discussions to the main topic. It feels like we've been constantly diverted to side issues. If there's no genuine intention to pursue the truth, then why obstruct those who are sincerely trying to reach it?
I don't think there have been side issues. These issues tell do Muslims display the fruits Jesus spoke of—justice, a lived‑out revealed law, and unwavering devotion to the one God.
My new book can be read freely from here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rIkqxC ... xtqFY/view

Old version can be read from here:
http://web.archive.org/web/202212010403 ... x_eng.html

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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #32

Post by mms20102 »

1213 wrote: Tue Jun 10, 2025 11:13 pm
mms20102 wrote: Tue Jun 10, 2025 8:19 pm
1213 wrote: Sun May 18, 2025 10:57 pm
mms20102 wrote: Sun May 18, 2025 7:35 pm ...Acts like kissing the Black Stone are not acts of worship...
Do you know why it is done?
I’m starting to question the relevance of these recent discussions to the main topic. It feels like we've been constantly diverted to side issues. If there's no genuine intention to pursue the truth, then why obstruct those who are sincerely trying to reach it?
I don't think there have been side issues. These issues tell do Muslims display the fruits Jesus spoke of—justice, a lived‑out revealed law, and unwavering devotion to the one God.
Before we compare Islam to your standards, let’s put the standards in writing.

1- What exactly do you mean by “fruits” and “lived-out revealed law”?
 • Please list the Bible chapter-and-verse that defines these ideas, so we’re using the same yard-stick.

2- How are you measuring “unwavering devotion to the one God”?
 • Again, cite the biblical benchmark you have in mind.

Once those criteria are on the table, we can look calmly at Muslim practice and history—without drifting into side-issues.

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Re: A New Nation and a New Prophet: Re-examining Old- and New-Testament Texts

Post #33

Post by 1213 »

mms20102 wrote: Wed Jun 11, 2025 10:51 am ...
1- What exactly do you mean by “fruits” and “lived-out revealed law”?
 • Please list the Bible chapter-and-verse that defines these ideas, so we’re using the same yard-stick.
You shall have no other gods before me. "You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them, for I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and on the fourth generation of those who hate me,
Exod. 20:3-5

If one lives by that, I don't think he bows down to a rock.
My new book can be read freely from here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rIkqxC ... xtqFY/view

Old version can be read from here:
http://web.archive.org/web/202212010403 ... x_eng.html

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