The Godhead, Correctly Explained

[A Freeman]

Excerpt below from:

In The Beginning Was The Word

Before the beginning of time, before there was language – both of which God created – God exists. Please note well the correct use of the word “exists”, which is a present-tense verb because God has no beginning, nor any end.

Psalm 90:2 BEFORE the mountains were brought forth, or ever Thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, Thou [art] God.

God is the self-existing ONE (Exod. 3:14; Deut. 6:4; Zech. 14:9; Mark 12:29), NOT a “trinity”. One actually means one; it does NOT mean 3=1 or 1=3 or anything other than one. There is only ONE Almighty God, Who is The Most High (Psalm 57:2; Luke 1:32-35; Sura 2:255), i.e. greater than ALL (John 10:29), including Christ (John 14:28).

Before God created anyone or anything, God exists. Before time began there would have been no need for the Word (communication) in any form, as there was no one else with which to communicate.

In the Beginning

John 1:1-2 KJV
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

The first creation of God was His Firstborn/Eldest Son Michael (Col. 1:15; Rev. 3:14), known here on Earth by His TITLE: Christ.

Colossians 1:12-15
1:12 GIVING THANKS UNTO THE FATHER, Which hath made us meet to be sharers of the inheritance of the holy people in Light:
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into The Kingdom of His dear Son:
1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
1:15 Who is the IMAGE of the INVISIBLE God, the FIRSTBORN of every CREATURE*:

*Note Well: By Definition -

IMAGE = LIKENESS. The Hebrew name “Micha-El” literally means “Who is LIKE God?”. Like Michael, we (the spiritual-Beings/Souls) were made in God’s IMAGE/LIKENESS, but we certainly are NOT God the Father, and neither is anyone else, including Christ (Matt. 23:9; Sura 33:40).

INVISIBLE = NOT VISIBLE. No one has ever seen God (John 1:18; John 5:37), but thousands upon thousands saw Jesus, the human son of the virgin Mary, into whom Prince Michael/Christ was incarnated.

FIRSTBORN = THE FIRST CREATED/THE FIRST TO BE BROUGHT INTO EXISTENCE.

CREATURE = SOME LIVING THING THAT WAS CREATED.

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the community of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness (Prince Michael/Christ - Rev. 1:5), THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD;

The moment that God created Michael, God became known as Father (Matt. 6:9), and Michael became His Son (yes, a true Father-Son relationship – 1 John 2:22). And it was in that moment when both time and language began.

After God created Michael, God showed Michael everything, creating everyone and everything else by and for Michael (Col. 1:16).

Hebrews 1:1-4
1:1 God, Who at sundry times and in diverse manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the Prophets,
1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [His] Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds;
1:3 Who being the brightness of [His] glory, and the express IMAGE of His person, and upholding all things by The Word of His power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of His Majesty on high;
1:4 Being MADE so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 5:19-20
5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do NOTHING of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever He doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and showeth him all things that Himself doeth: and He will show him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

[Capbook]

Capbook, you and your lexicons are doing exactly what you accuse JWs of doing! What a major paraphrase it is at John 8:58! "before Abraham 'I Am'?" That is paraphrased as much as any paraphrase. It is twisted translation on your part. That can also be said of John 1:1c. Big examples of paraphrase!

Why change topic?
You accuse John 8:58 as paraphrase but never present what you believe as a literal word for word translation of the text.

I have several times presented what I believe is the word-for-word translation of the text. (And I didn't change the topic. You like to cast aspersions at JWs, don't you, when your arguments fall flat?)

You just always makes opinion, why can't you post here your Bible verse of John 8:58 as evidence?

John 8:58 has been quoted many times. There has been a thorough discussion on that verse.

Yes, but I believe the thorough discussion from your side were almost based from paraphrase translations.
See below for your ready reference.

Jhn 8:58 יהושע said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Aḇraham came to be, I am.”e Footnote: eSee also Jhn 1:1, Jhn 6:62, Jhn 17:5, Heb 11:26

[onewithhim]

Why change topic?
You accuse John 8:58 as paraphrase but never present what you believe as a literal word for word translation of the text.

I have several times presented what I believe is the word-for-word translation of the text. (And I didn't change the topic. You like to cast aspersions at JWs, don't you, when your arguments fall flat?)

You just always makes opinion, why can't you post here your Bible verse of John 8:58 as evidence?

John 8:58 has been quoted many times. There has been a thorough discussion on that verse.

Yes, but I believe the thorough discussion from your side were almost based from paraphrase translations.
See below for your ready reference.

Jhn 8:58 יהושע said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Aḇraham came to be, I am.”e Footnote: eSee also Jhn 1:1, Jhn 6:62, Jhn 17:5, Heb 11:26

THAT is paraphrased, as is John 1:1. The other verses don't say anything about Jesus being "I Am" or I Will, as some translations have it. You are misleading people, and that need not be the case, because we have discussed "I Am" (John 8:58) thoroughly in the past. Jesus was not quoting from Exodus 3:14. He spoke good proper Greek, not the mangled mess that many translators have made. Jesus simply said: "Before Abraham came to be, I existed."

[Capbook]

I have several times presented what I believe is the word-for-word translation of the text. (And I didn't change the topic. You like to cast aspersions at JWs, don't you, when your arguments fall flat?)

You just always makes opinion, why can't you post here your Bible verse of John 8:58 as evidence?

John 8:58 has been quoted many times. There has been a thorough discussion on that verse.

Yes, but I believe the thorough discussion from your side were almost based from paraphrase translations.
See below for your ready reference.

Jhn 8:58 יהושע said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Aḇraham came to be, I am.”e Footnote: eSee also Jhn 1:1, Jhn 6:62, Jhn 17:5, Heb 11:26

THAT is paraphrased, as is John 1:1. The other verses don't say anything about Jesus being "I Am" or I Will, as some translations have it. You are misleading people, and that need not be the case, because we have discussed "I Am" (John 8:58) thoroughly in the past. Jesus was not quoting from Exodus 3:14. He spoke good proper Greek, not the mangled mess that many translators have made. Jesus simply said: "Before Abraham came to be, I existed."

You may have thoroughly discussed the "I am" in John 8:58 but you may not have it compared to the word in Greek of "I am" in the Old Testament of Ex 3:14. The word "I am" have the same Strong No. G1510, in Greek "eimi." in the OT and NT Greek Septuagint.
This proves that Jesus was quoting the same Greek word "eimi" as "I am" in Ex 3:14.
And also proves Jesus divine nature as God.

(Westcott and Hort+) Jhn 8:58 ειπεν G3004 V-2AAI-3S  αυτοις G846 P-DPM  ιησους G2424 N-NSM  αμην G281 HEB  αμην G281 HEB  λεγω G3004 V-PAI-1S  υμιν G4771 P-2DP  πριν G4250 ADV  αβρααμ G11 N-PRI  γενεσθαι G1096 V-2ADN  εγω G1473 P-1NS  ειμι G1510 V-PAI-1S 

(NASB+) Jhn 8:58 Jesus G2424  said G3004  to them, “Truly G281 , truly G281  I say G3004  to you, before G4250  Abraham G11 N1 was born G1096 ,  N2 R1 I am G1510 .”

(KJV+)Jhn 8:58 Jesus G2424  said G2036  unto them, G846  Verily, G281  verily, G281  I say G3004  unto you, G5213  Before G4250  Abraham G11  was, G1096  I G1473  am. G1510 

(Greek Septuagint+) Exo 3:14 και G2532 CONJ  ειπεν V-AAI-3S  ο G3588 T-NSM  θεος G2316 N-NSM  προς G4314 PREP  μωυσην N-ASM  εγω G1473 P-NS  ειμι G1510 V-PAI-1S  ο G3588 T-NSM  ων G1510 V-PAPNS  και G2532 CONJ  ειπεν V-AAI-3S  ουτως G3778 ADV  ερεις V-FAI-2S  τοις G3588 T-DPM  υιοις G5207 N-DPM  ισραηλ G2474 N-PRI  ο G3588 T-NSM  ων G1510 V-PAPNS  απεσταλκεν G649 V-RAI-3S  με G1473 P-AS  προς G4314 PREP  υμας G4771 P-AP 

[FruitoftheSpirit]

I have several times presented what I believe is the word-for-word translation of the text. (And I didn't change the topic. You like to cast aspersions at JWs, don't you, when your arguments fall flat?)

You just always makes opinion, why can't you post here your Bible verse of John 8:58 as evidence?

John 8:58 has been quoted many times. There has been a thorough discussion on that verse.

Yes, but I believe the thorough discussion from your side were almost based from paraphrase translations.
See below for your ready reference.

Jhn 8:58 יהושע said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Aḇraham came to be, I am.”e Footnote: eSee also Jhn 1:1, Jhn 6:62, Jhn 17:5, Heb 11:26

THAT is paraphrased, as is John 1:1. The other verses don't say anything about Jesus being "I Am" or I Will, as some translations have it. You are misleading people, and that need not be the case, because we have discussed "I Am" (John 8:58) thoroughly in the past. Jesus was not quoting from Exodus 3:14. He spoke good proper Greek, not the mangled mess that many translators have made. Jesus simply said: "Before Abraham came to be, I existed."

As I said in a previous post, no passage should ever be read without holding deeply in mind the fact that YHVH declared the End from the beginning and that which He declared from the beginning was that He would call a man to fulfill His will, to fulfill the very purpose that He had created all things in the first place for. Then keep in mind that it is the Son of Man that is returning in our Father's glory where he will reward his faithful with the Promised Spirit and rule over his father David's throne, which is a kingdom that God had prepared from the foundation of the world (Matthew 25).

John 8: 12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

the "he" after "I am" is added in, just as it is added in elsewhere in the book of John, but for some reason translators chose not to add it in for verse 58.

"I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies" John 11:25.

Mark 26 "But regarding the fact that the dead rise again, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, and the God of Jacob '? 27 "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken."

55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Jesus speaks God's word, which much of it concerns himself. Jesus knows that Abraham rejoiced to see his day as the Father teaches him what to speak, he just got done saying such but they completely ignored him and proceeded with a stupid question that went directly against what Jesus just said. Jesus didn't pre-exist to know that Abraham saw him and rejoiced over his day, Jesus knew it through the Father teaching him.

Now if YHVH's word is true that He had indeed declared the End from the beginning where a man fulfills all of His will, then before Abraham even existed Jesus had already been declared as "the light of the world" and as "the resurrection and the life". Jesus can most assuredly declare that before Abraham was, I am the "he" to which Abraham had rejoiced over!

[onewithhim]

You just always makes opinion, why can't you post here your Bible verse of John 8:58 as evidence?

John 8:58 has been quoted many times. There has been a thorough discussion on that verse.

Yes, but I believe the thorough discussion from your side were almost based from paraphrase translations.
See below for your ready reference.

Jhn 8:58 יהושע said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Aḇraham came to be, I am.”e Footnote: eSee also Jhn 1:1, Jhn 6:62, Jhn 17:5, Heb 11:26

THAT is paraphrased, as is John 1:1. The other verses don't say anything about Jesus being "I Am" or I Will, as some translations have it. You are misleading people, and that need not be the case, because we have discussed "I Am" (John 8:58) thoroughly in the past. Jesus was not quoting from Exodus 3:14. He spoke good proper Greek, not the mangled mess that many translators have made. Jesus simply said: "Before Abraham came to be, I existed."

You may have thoroughly discussed the "I am" in John 8:58 but you may not have it compared to the word in Greek of "I am" in the Old Testament of Ex 3:14. The word "I am" have the same Strong No. G1510, in Greek "eimi." in the OT and NT Greek Septuagint.
This proves that Jesus was quoting the same Greek word "eimi" as "I am" in Ex 3:14.
And also proves Jesus divine nature as God.

Oh no. "I am" is the most common phrase in the Scriptures, used by many many people. There is no indication that Jesus was quoting Exodus 3:14. In just a verse or two after John 8:58, the man who was blind and then could see after Jesus healed him, responded to the people after they asked him if he was that man, and he said "I am." Is the blind man also quoting Exodus? Is he also God?

[Difflugia]

Oh no. "I am" is the most common phrase in the Scriptures, used by many many people.

What do you mean "the Scriptures?" In the New Testament, ἐγώ εἰμι only appears six times in the New Testament. All of those are in John and all but one is spoken by Jesus.

It appears almost 200 times in the Septuagint, but there's something funny about that: the vast majority of those are Yahweh declaring Himself such. The two most common phrases beginning with ἐγώ εἰμι are ἐγώ εἰμι κύριος ("I am the Lord") and ἐγώ εἰμι κύριος ὁ θεὸς ("I am the Lord God").

It also very rarely appears in other Greek literature. So, it's not normally a common Greek phrase, but it is a common phrase in Jewish Scripture, specifically when God is referring to Himself. That is exactly the opposite of how you want it to be.

There is no indication that Jesus was quoting Exodus 3:14.

Yeah. He might have been quoting one of the other hundred or so times that God refers to Himself.

In just a verse or two after John 8:58, the man who was blind and then could see after Jesus healed him,

Yes. The only appearance in the New Testament that isn't Jesus referring to himself, but is nonetheless still theologically charged. That doesn't help you.

[onewithhim]

Oh no. "I am" is the most common phrase in the Scriptures, used by many many people.

What do you mean "the Scriptures?" In the New Testament, ἐγώ εἰμι only appears six times in the New Testament. All of those are in John and all but one is spoken by Jesus.

It is spoken many times, in both the OT and the NT. For example, Paul, as well as the formerly blind man, said these words. (John 9:9; 1 Timothy 1:15) Are these two individuals claiming to be God?

[Difflugia]

What do you mean "the Scriptures?" In the New Testament, ἐγώ εἰμι only appears six times in the New Testament. All of those are in John and all but one is spoken by Jesus.

It is spoken many times, in both the OT and the NT. For example, Paul, as well as the formerly blind man, said these words. (John 9:9; 1 Timothy 1:15) Are these two individuals claiming to be God?

If we count the one in 1 Timothy (the word order's inverted), we're up to seven in the New Testament.

That doesn't change what I said about the Old Testament: the vast majority are Yahweh declaring Himself to be God.

[onewithhim]

What do you mean "the Scriptures?" In the New Testament, ἐγώ εἰμι only appears six times in the New Testament. All of those are in John and all but one is spoken by Jesus.

It is spoken many times, in both the OT and the NT. For example, Paul, as well as the formerly blind man, said these words. (John 9:9; 1 Timothy 1:15) Are these two individuals claiming to be God?

If we count the one in 1 Timothy (the word order's inverted), we're up to seven in the New Testament.

That doesn't change what I said about the Old Testament: the vast majority are Yahweh declaring Himself to be God.

We're talking about the common phrase ego eimi---"I am." This is said many times by people all through the Bible. You still didn't answer my question---are the blind man and Paul claiming to be God (since they both said ego eimi) ?

[Difflugia]

We're talking about the common phrase ego eimi---"I am."

That's right.

This is said many times by people all through the Bible.

No. It's said six times in the New Testament. Seven if you include eimi ego.

If you include the Septuagint, as you seem to be, then it's said a ton of times, but in the overwhelming majority of those cases, it's said by God calling Himself God. That's opposite to the case you'd like it to make.

You still didn't answer my question

I've answered it every time you thought it was important enough to ask.

---are the blind man and Paul claiming to be God (since they both said ego eimi) ?

For the blind man, probably not, but as I pointed out the other two times you asked and I answered, it's still in a theologically charged passage in John's Gospel, so John may actually have intended that connection.

Paul, though, never said ego eimi at all. The author of 1 Timothy did, but that wasn't Paul. The author likely wasn't claiming to be God in that passage, but that may also be why he inverted the word order.