The Bible

[Bible_Student]

From my perspective, there are several ways we can come to know God. One is through creation itself. We can learn what God the Creator is like by observing nature—its beauty and order. For instance, when we look at the colors of flowers, birds, or fish, we see a God who not only possesses good taste and the ability to express visual beauty but also loves the intelligent beings who would appreciate the very beauty He created for their enjoyment. The same could be said of flavors, scents, and so on. Likewise, we can perceive His immense power and dynamic energy in the vastness of the heavens, as well as in the sheer number and visual arrangement of the stars and everything else visible in the night sky. We also see His power when we consider the energy the sun generates, or the energy inherent in flowing rivers, moving air, and the like. We see His wisdom in the fact that He gave us a planet with oxygen and a temperature suitable for us to live in relative comfort without perishing. We see His love in the provision of sufficient food and water to sustain our lives.

However, nature is not the only way to know God, as it does not reveal many of the specific things we need to understand about Him and His purpose in creating us. By merely looking at the sky, we could not know that the universe had a beginning, nor could we understand the reasons for suffering, disease, and death, or why humanity is in such moral disarray. We would not know why peace remains elusive despite so many people desiring it, or whether God is taking—or will take—action to resolve these human problems.

When God created man, He spoke with him and gave him instructions. The Bible recounts how angels once delivered messages from God to specific servants of His. Yet, simply recounting these stories verbally to others would not suffice for all of humanity to learn these truths. It is well known that accounts tend to become distorted over time, especially long after those who experienced the events firsthand have passed away. I believe that for these reasons, God—the Creator—ensured that the most significant events in human history regarding His intervention in human affairs and on this planet were recorded in written documents. Over time, these came to form the Bible, also known as "the Scriptures." Interestingly, although there have been many attempts to silence these documents, they have survived to this very day. Moreover, they have been translated into virtually every modern human language so that all of humanity can access this knowledge. It is like a divine database that anyone who wishes to do so can consult.

And what do you think? Why might the Creator have decided that a book—or a collection of writings—would serve as the guide to the knowledge humans needed to know Him and understand His purpose?

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #8]
Your comment is very ambiguous.

What exactly is the part of my post that troubles you? That God chose to give us a written revelation, that the Bible is that written revelation, or that the Bible offers answers regarding the knowledge of God and His purpose?

Nothing troubles me at all. The part [in your post] where I see lies is this: 'Why might the Creator have decided that a book—or a collection of writings—would serve as the guide to the knowledge humans needed to know Him and understand His purpose?'

How did you conclude that God has decided that a book —or a collection of writings—would serve as the guide to the knowledge humans needed to know Him and understand His purpose?' Were you with God all the time?

[Bible_Student]

[Replying to OneJack in post #11]
It is not something that *I* decided.

It is something I learned by studying the Bible itself—for example, in John 20:31, Romans 15:4, or 1 Timothy 3:16–17. Have you never read it?

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #11]
It is not something that *I* decided.

It is something I learned by studying the Bible itself—for example, in John 20:31, Romans 15:4, or 1 Timothy 3:16–17. Have you never read it?

John 20:31. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

This verse tells us nothing about God's decision to use the bible as our way of knowing Him (God), does it? God is not the speaker in this verse; is He (God)? The same is true of the other two verses you posted.

[Bible_Student]

@OneJack Thank you for your opinion.

I look forward to the participation of other forum members and reading what they think.

[Tcg]

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[Replying to Bible_Student in post #1]

[tam]

Peace to you,

From my perspective, there are several ways we can come to know God.

I know of only one way we can know God.

His Son.

No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. Matt 11:27

“If you knew Me, you would know My Father as well.” John 8:19

He is the Living Word of God, the Truth, and the living image of God.

He did not say 'if you know the bible, then you will know my Father." He did not say, "if you know nature, you will know my Father."

Instead, He said, "If you know me, you know my Father also."

One is through creation itself. We can learn what God the Creator is like by observing nature—its beauty and order. For instance, when we look at the colors of flowers, birds, or fish, we see a God who not only possesses good taste and the ability to express visual beauty but also loves the intelligent beings who would appreciate the very beauty He created for their enjoyment. The same could be said of flavors, scents, and so on. Likewise, we can perceive His immense power and dynamic energy in the vastness of the heavens, as well as in the sheer number and visual arrangement of the stars and everything else visible in the night sky. We also see His power when we consider the energy the sun generates, or the energy inherent in flowing rivers, moving air, and the like. We see His wisdom in the fact that He gave us a planet with oxygen and a temperature suitable for us to live in relative comfort without perishing. We see His love in the provision of sufficient food and water to sustain our lives.

We might be able to see some things about God by observing nature - but I think we would have to know God first. Otherwise, how would we know to distinguish the good from the bad in nature, that 'the bad' are a result of sin and death entering the world (due to a decision that Adam made), rather than a reflection on God? (I believe you mention this below as well.)

I would add that just because something is pleasing to the eye does not mean that it is something good. The Adversary (the one called Satan) is or would have been pleasing to the eye - at least on the outside (Ezekiel 28:17.) But it is not the outside that matters. It is the inside. The inside is what God sees (1Samuel 16:7, Matt 25:27.)

Even Christ was not 'beautiful' on the outside, but on the inside - He was and is beautiful.

2He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no stately form or majesty to attract us, no beauty that we should desire Him. 3He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, acquainted with grief. Like one from whom men hide their faces, He was despised, and we esteemed Him not. Isaiah 53:2,3

However, nature is not the only way to know God, as it does not reveal many of the specific things we need to understand about Him and His purpose in creating us. By merely looking at the sky, we could not know that the universe had a beginning, nor could we understand the reasons for suffering, disease, and death, or why humanity is in such moral disarray. We would not know why peace remains elusive despite so many people desiring it, or whether God is taking—or will take—action to resolve these human problems.

Yes.

When God created man, He spoke with him and gave him instructions. The Bible recounts how angels once delivered messages from God to specific servants of His. Yet, simply recounting these stories verbally to others would not suffice for all of humanity to learn these truths. It is well known that accounts tend to become distorted over time, especially long after those who experienced the events firsthand have passed away. I believe that for these reasons, God—the Creator—ensured that the most significant events in human history regarding His intervention in human affairs and on this planet were recorded in written documents. Over time, these came to form the Bible, also known as "the Scriptures." Interestingly, although there have been many attempts to silence these documents, they have survived to this very day. Moreover, they have been translated into virtually every modern human language so that all of humanity can access this knowledge. It is like a divine database that anyone who wishes to do so can consult.

Hmm. You can learn some things about God from the bible; however, it is also subject to error. It has some true things in it and some thing that are not true. It is not, itself, the Truth.

a) the bible is subject to the lying pen of the scribes (translation errors, copyist errors, see Jeremiah 8:8, Matthew 23:13)

b) the bible has been made subject to interpretation - there are many interpretations out there, including conflicting ones, and they all use verses from the bible to support their understanding (which can be and most often is wrong)

c) the bible itself never claims that knowing the bible, means knowing God. It never claims to be the truth. Instead it points to Christ as both the Truth and the Word of God. And He says that if we want to know God, we must know Him.

Lots of people read, study, and know the bible. Many/most of those same people do not know God. They are looking at something/someone other than the Son.

The Jewish people/religious leaders studied the scriptures, did they not? Did that mean they knew God? Did that help them DO what those scriptures told them to do?

You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life. John 5:39, 40


God didn't send us the bible so we can know Him.

He sent His Son.

May anyone who wishes them, be given ears to hear, so as to hear the truth of this or any other matter from the One who is the Truth: Christ Jaheshua. May any who thirst and any who wish, "Come! Take the free gift of the water of Life!"


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Bible_Student]

[Replying to tam in post #16]
Thank you for your comment.

Seeing and listening to Jesus in order to know God is of the utmost importance. Through Jesus’s personality, one can discern qualities of his Father’s character, for as a human, Jesus mirrored the nature of God—who is Spirit and invisible. This was especially possible for those privileged enough to live during his time and witness his actions and words firsthand; we can benefit from the written accounts, thereby perceiving the nature of Jesus’s Father through the personality his Son displayed as a human.

However, the Bible itself mentions several ways to get to know God—for example, by reading it (2 Tim. 3:16, 17). It is precisely through our study of the Scriptures that we learn everything Jesus said (there is no other way to "listen" to Jesus and study his personality than by reading the Bible itself—and the claims of those who say they hear him literally do not count as valid testimony from a biblical standpoint).

Another way is through creation:

Rom. 1:20 For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable; 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God nor did they thank him, but they became empty-headed in their reasonings and their unintelligent heart became darkened. 22 Although asserting they were wise, they became foolish 23 and turned the glory of the incorruptible God into something like the image of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed creatures and creeping things.