The Languages and Cultures of the World

[theleftone]

I know this is a broad topic, but I wanted to expand it beyond MagusYaman and myself. Though, I am specifically addressing my experience in Korea, I'd be curious in hearing about your experiences outside your own culture and/or native language.

Best of luck to you! As a student of Chinese, I can sympathise with getting used to an entirely new character set (though I imagine Korean is somewhat simpler, as I hear it is phonetic to some degree?) - but with Korean, don't you have to memorise all those levels of formality for everything? I hear if you use the wrong formality of language with someone, it can be grounds for starting a fight.

The character set is actually not too difficult. There are 19 consonants and 22 vowels. These are typically combined into 2's, 3's, and sometimes 4's. Combined they form one syllable. So, what would typically look like 'a' character to one not familiar with the language, it's actually a syllable made up of 2-4 letters from the alphabet.

What has been the most difficult for me thus far is pronunciation. They have a number of sounds which don't exist in English. Combine this with the additional 'exceptions,' and it can be a challenge to read the script for a new person. What has benefited me the most, being the most obvious, is practice. I read signs all the time when I'm out. I read bus maps. I read subway maps. Though, it's easy to cheat on the latter because they're usually in English as well. But, this has done a great job at improving my speed of reading.

On the issue of formality, it's a nightmare. If I recall correctly, there are five levels of formality. However, this means there are five levels of formality for every single verb tense -- future, past, present, present continuous, past continuous, etc. and so on. I have been studying for 8 months now, and I'm just now starting to get a grasp on how to take the verbs from their basic form and use them.

Using the wrong formality can be quite insulting within Korean culture. Though, I think this has weakened with the Western and modernization influences on Korean culture. You do have to be aware of the hierarchical nature of Korean culture though. Say 'komawa' (informal 'thank you') to your boss rather than 'kamsahamnida' (formal 'thank you') and you could run the risk of damaging your working relationship with him. And relationships are highly important within Korean culture. Of course, being the 'waygook' (foreigner) I can get away with a lot more than a Korean.

Again, though, best of luck, and I hope Korea treats you right!

We're had our ups and downs. This is my first time attempting to adjust to a foreign culture. At times, I am too quick to criticize the culture. At others, my Korean friends lack sensitivity to my own culture. But, overall, I've had a wonderful time here in Korea.

[bernee51]

I know this is a broad topic, but I wanted to expand it beyond MagusYaman and myself. Though, I am specifically addressing my experience in Korea, I'd be curious in hearing about your experiences outside your own culture and/or native language.

I spent nearly three years in Shanghai. Despite 3 months of intensive language training before I arrived it was still a shock. i wasn't until i had been there for at least 12 months that i started feeling a bit more comfortable with the tonal aspect of mandarin. Even so my level of conversation was very superficial.

This was followed up with nearly 3 years in New Delhi. As english usage is wide spread in India language was not so much an issue. I did however try to learn a bit of hindi as when travelling - especially in far flung areas - english usage became less common.

What I enjoyed msot culturally about both China and India was mixing as much as possible with 'common' folk - like sitting with camel herders in Rajastan enjoying chai and talking with broken hindi and hand signals.

In China I rode a bicycle everywhere I could. In India a motorcycle. This I found made for better access.

[MagusYanam]

Wow - sorry I missed this topic at first! I've been away from a computer for almost a week, and things are still a bit hectic for me.

I've just gotten back from study abroad in Beijing, which was an extremely valuable and interesting experience. I'd studied Mandarin for about two years before leaving for Beijing, and while I realise that it equipped me for the job of familiarising myself with the foreign culture, I soon felt that it was all too inadequate.

When I'd gotten to China, I was better at writing and memorising Chinese characters (which are not phonetic, but ideographic) than I was at pronouncing Chinese words. That situation reversed itself as I began attending a Chinese church, singing in Chinese, going out to Chinese restaurants to eat and conversing with Chinese students (all of which require more by way of spoken language), and it really hit the ground running when I began a romantic relationship with a Chinese woman who was not very comfortable with her English.

I found that I did get better at pronouncing Chinese and lost my 'American accent', though a couple of Beijingers that I talked to said that I sounded like I was from Manchuria (my girlfriend's influence on me there). Though I had been warned, and it turned out to be true, that as I grew more comfortable speaking to Chinese people, I grew less comfortable speaking to non-native Chinese speakers.

Also, bernee, were you exposed to a greater extent to Mandarin or to the Shanghainese Wu dialect? There was a big enough difference between the Mandarin we were learning in classrooms and the 'Erhuayin' that was used by Beijing taxi-drivers, such that early on, they would have to repeat everything to me twice, and very slowly and clearly (or I'd just nod and say 'dui, dui', and there would be one of those long awkward silences). Having (regrettably) never reached Shanghai in my studies abroad, I can only imagine what it must be like conversing in a dialect that falls further from CCTV-style Mandarin than Beijing-hua.

What I enjoyed msot culturally about both China and India was mixing as much as possible with 'common' folk - like sitting with camel herders in Rajastan enjoying chai and talking with broken hindi and hand signals.

If there were an 'envious' emoticon, I'd use it here. That must have been an awesome experience!

My Chinese progressed enough that I was able to have conversations with Beijing taxi-drivers about Chinese politics, but I regret that I wasn't able to get out as much as I liked into the rural, local areas.

In China I rode a bicycle everywhere I could. In India a motorcycle. This I found made for better access.

Hm. In Beijing, I just took the bus. Four mao a ride made it quite affordable, though the busses were often crowded and smelly and took a long time to get where you wanted to go. But they seemed safer than biking, given the way people drive in Beijing...

[bernee51]

Also, bernee, were you exposed to a greater extent to Mandarin or to the Shanghainese Wu dialect? There was a big enough difference between the Mandarin we were learning in classrooms and the 'Erhuayin' that was used by Beijing taxi-drivers, such that early on, they would have to repeat everything to me twice, and very slowly and clearly (or I'd just nod and say 'dui, dui', and there would be one of those long awkward silences). Having (regrettably) never reached Shanghai in my studies abroad, I can only imagine what it must be like conversing in a dialect that falls further from CCTV-style Mandarin than Beijing-hua.

Mandarin was widely spoken. I do remember one occasion riding home in a heavy rainstorm wearing one of those cool bicycle ponchos. While witing for a light to change the fellow next to me asked for (what turned ot to be) directions in Shaghaihua. From under my poncho I muttered (in Mandarin) "sorry I don't speak Shaghaihua" So he asked me again in Mandarin. My reply - "Sorry - I only speak a little Mandarin" He then realised i was a laowei laughted like mad and went on his way. I ner really go a hold of the Shangahi dialect.

What I enjoyed msot culturally about both China and India was mixing as much as possible with 'common' folk - like sitting with camel herders in Rajastan enjoying chai and talking with broken hindi and hand signals.

If there were an 'envious' emoticon, I'd use it here. That must have been an awesome experience!

It is the way I have always travelled since first venturing into the great unknown more than 30 years ago. Turkey would still have to be my favoured destination. I met some wonderful 'peasants' in rural Turkey.

You story of how you got to improve your spoken Putonghua brought back fond memeories of how I improved my school boy French on a Greek Island.

In China I rode a bicycle everywhere I could. In India a motorcycle. This I found made for better access.

Hm. In Beijing, I just took the bus. Four mao a ride made it quite affordable, though the busses were often crowded and smelly and took a long time to get where you wanted to go. But they seemed safer than biking, given the way people drive in Beijing...

My recollection of Beijing was a lot of bikes and a lot of dedicated bike lanes. I just assumed safety in numbers.

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Here in the exotic south eastern United States we condense our words into as few syllables as possible. However, this mutilation of the English language is not intended to serve any productive purpose. We speak slowly so as to make saying "y'all" just as time consuming as sticking with the standard "you all".