Is blasphemy worse than infanticide?

[OnceConvinced]

In another thread on the topic of the dispicable things done in the name of religion, a Christian made this absolutely appalling and sickening statement in regards to infanticide:

What those persecutors did to fellow humans isn't nearly as troublesome to God as what many atheists do right here and elsewhere, daily blaspheming the Holy Spirit, knowing the truth but rejecting it. God hates the shedding of innocent blood, listing that as one the top seven sins, yet none come close to blasphemy.

Yes. Believe it or not, this person had the audacity to suggest that blaspheming God is worse than infanticide!

Is blasphemy worse than infaticide? If yes, In what way?

Why would blasphemy upset an all-knowing, all-powerful perfect being?

What negative effects could it possibly have on this being or anyone else for that matter?

[McCulloch]

Strictly from the point of view of the God as represented in the Bible, there seems to be no virtue greater than loyalty to that God and no vice worse than denying him.

[Word_Swordsman]

Is blasphemy worse than infaticide? If yes, In what way?

Matthew 12:24 "But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils."
Jesus replied with this in Matthew 12:31-32 "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. [32] And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

Infanticide is a forgivable sin upon true repentance. What those Pharisees did was to get very close if not cross the line of cutting themselves off from the Holy Spirit. Jesus explained why. Once you burn that bridge there is no going back over.

Why would blasphemy upset an all-knowing, all-powerful perfect being?

Again, God chooses not to exploit His potential of omniscience. The Bible repeatedly asserts God stands by to totally forget forgivable sins upon repentance and being found with the righteousness of Christ. He chooses to forget. By forgetting on purpose God chooses not to know all things. He is capable of forgiving and forgetting all the sins of the world, except the one that keeps the Spirit from dealing with a man forever.
Hebrews 8:12 "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more."
Hebrews 10:17 "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more."

With men, truly forgetting sins against us is tough to do, taking maybe a lifetime to accomplish. God, being "all mighty", has the ability to do what men find so difficult.

What negative effects could it possibly have on this being or anyone else for that matter?

I suppose you mean effect upon the blasphemer. He is cut off like diseased branches on an orchard vine left on the ground to be gathered up and burned. He has no hope of salvation, but only a certain fearful looking toward the Judgment.

[JoeyKnothead]

I don't care if God Himself came and told me to hurt some kid, I wouldn't do it, and I'd cuss God for asking me to. There is no one lower on the planet than one who would hurt a child.

Notice how the poster above is able to calmly, rationally, and with scripture explain why God could be okay with killing a baby, but don't dare say anything that would upset Him!

I don't care how anyone wishes to interpret, translate, or explain away evil. To try to say that killing a baby is forgivable, but cursing God is not is beyond the pale. If God is so vain he could accept the murder of one of His own, as long as you didn't say anything bad about God is sick, twisted logic I want nothing to do with.

If God is not a megalomaniac, he sure missed a dang good chance to be one.

In case anyone a thousand years from now should read this, and wish to try to twist it for some or another reason, let me make clear...

I would kill God, Jesus, and who the heck ever the Holy Ghost is before I would kill a child. That's it, there is no other way to spin it. Don't try to make it sound nice, don't make it try to fit.

The casual way in which these kind of scriptures are just thrown around is horrible, just horrible.

[OnceConvinced]

Why would blasphemy upset an all-knowing, all-powerful perfect being?

Again, God chooses not to exploit His potential of omniscience. The Bible repeatedly asserts God stands by to totally forget forgivable sins upon repentance and being found with the righteousness of Christ. He chooses to forget. By forgetting on purpose God chooses not to know all things. He is capable of forgiving and forgetting all the sins of the world, except the one that keeps the Spirit from dealing with a man forever.
Hebrews 8:12 "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more."
Hebrews 10:17 "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more."

With men, truly forgetting sins against us is tough to do, taking maybe a lifetime to accomplish. God, being "all mighty", has the ability to do what men find so difficult.

You haven't answered the question. Why would it upset God? Why would anything offend him? Showing offence due to insults seems to me to be a weakness of character.

What negative effects could it possibly have on this being or anyone else for that matter?

I suppose you mean effect upon the blasphemer. He is cut off like diseased branches on an orchard vine left on the ground to be gathered up and burned. He has no hope of salvation, but only a certain fearful looking toward the Judgment.

I am asking what ill effects it will have on God and man.

What adverse affect does blasphemy have on God?

With regards to your answer, if we choose to reject God we have already sealed our fate right? What difference is blasphemy going to make on top of that? What difference will any sin make once we have rejected God?

God requires that we all forgive as he forgives us. Christians seem to think God is the role model for forgiveness, but yet his forgiveness is conditional. So we say something against him. We blaspheme. Isn't it rather petty of God to refuse to forgive that if we are truly sorry for it? Especially seeing as the blasphemy does not actually affect any innocent humans.

The pharasees were rebuked by Jesus for taking the law to extremes, for condemning people for the silliest of reasons. I'm sure Jesus would have said the same about those who accuse others of blaspheming. I have seen some people accuse others of blasphemy for the silliest little reasons. I don't think Jesus would have been impressed. Monty Python did a great satire of this sort of thing in the movie "The life of Bryan" where people became enraged and stoned a man simply for saying God's name. Seeing what some people accuse others of when it comes to blasphemy, I'd say it's not actually that far off reality.

Also one should be wary of who they accuse of blasphemy. After all it is not up to any man to judge. Perhaps accusing members here of being blasphemers is not wise from that perspective?

[OnceConvinced]

Strictly from the point of view of the God as represented in the Bible, there seems to be no virtue greater than loyalty to that God and no vice worse than denying him.

And what about from the point of view of a rational human being?

I guess what we may have here is a difference of opinion of what is called "blasphemy". If blasphemy is simply rejecting God, then yes, according to the bible it is the only sin that really matters. But I see it as the dictionary sees it:

irreverent talk about God or sacred things.

With all those people who are supposedly "Blaspheming" God on this site, they have already rejected Christ. Therefore any of this sort of blaspheming is not going to make anything any worse for them. God would surely not be upset by mere human beings making fun of him. Is God really that emotionally crippled?

[RyanP]

Strictly from the point of view of the God as represented in the Bible, there seems to be no virtue greater than loyalty to that God and no vice worse than denying him.

Exactly. Sin is sin: one sin doesn't carry more weight than the other because all sin separates one from God.

And what about from the point of view of a rational human being?

You mean as dictated by cultural cues which varies by century and continent? Regardless, the purpose of this subforum is to have a place to freely engage in debates on Christian theology with the basic assumption that the Bible can be used as a primary reference without the need to defend its authority.

And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

Interesting. But how is that to be interpreted? I can blaspheme the Son and be forgiven but not the Holy Spirit? I am convicted by this verse and I will pray tonight that the Lord not turn away from me if I am guilty of this.

With men, truly forgetting sins against us is tough to do, taking maybe a lifetime to accomplish. God, being "all mighty", has the ability to do what men find so difficult.

Amen.

I don't care if God Himself came and told me to hurt some kid, I wouldn't do it, and I'd cuss God for asking me to. There is no one lower on the planet than one who would hurt a child.

When the people heard the sound of the rams’ horns, they shouted as loud as they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the town and captured it. They completely destroyed everything in it with their swords—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, goats, and donkeys. --Joshua 6:20-21

When the Israelite army finished chasing and killing all the men of Ai in the open fields, they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire population of Ai, including men and women, was wiped out that day—12,000 in all. --Joshua 8:24-25

joey, I think all modern Christians struggle with the brutality of the Old Testament, especially because it was God's will. The only answer I've found is that those people who were destroyed were vile and given plenty of time to repent and change their ways. So Joshua's conquest was their punishment much like the Assyrian and Babylonian invasions were Israel's punishment for sin.

I hope this isn't a stumbling block for you and that you continue to search and question.

[daedalus 2.0]

You mean as dictated by cultural cues which varies by century and continent? Regardless, the purpose of this subforum is to have a place to freely engage in debates on Christian theology with the basic assumption that the Bible can be used as a primary reference without the need to defend its authority.

joey, I think all modern Christians struggle with the brutality of the Old Testament, especially because it was God's will. The only answer I've found is that those people who were destroyed were vile and given plenty of time to repent and change their ways. So Joshua's conquest was their punishment much like the Assyrian and Babylonian invasions were Israel's punishment for sin.

I hope this isn't a stumbling block for you and that you continue to search and question.

There is brutality in the NT, too. And since you have pointed out that the authority of the Bible is unassailable in this subforum you must accept that Jesus approved of brutality against slaves, and John has a whole book on Jesus and his Flaming Sword-Mouth coming down and killing and reaping and sending souls to Hell. Let's face it, for all the blood in the OT, Jesus ratchets it up an inifite number of notches by sending people to eternal Hellfire. At least Moses had the decency to put little babies and their wailing mothers out of their misery. Jesus keeps them aware for eternity, and in perpetual suffering.

I'm sure you will cry foul and declare it a matter of interpretation, but who's interpretation? your's or another Xian's? Who is the better Xian?

Can you tell me the Xian you accept as the authority on the doctrine of the Bible for the purpose of this subforum? Since we accept the Bible as an authority - who has best explained its authoritativeness?

Let's get on the same page: I claim the Bible as an authority and Jesus, as according to his apostle John, is a maniacal killer filled with retribution. Also, the OT clearly describes that Yaweh is the same God as the NT. Without the prophesy of the OT there is no NT. Why the difference? Marketing? Why did God change his tune?

Obviously the Bible (and your attempt to distance yourself from the OT is noted, even though the "purpose of this subforum" is to EXPRESSLY accept the BIBLE - THE WHOLE BIBLE (not just the parts you like) as authoritative.

The Bible includes the OT. It is brutal. God, according to the Bible is brutal. John Calvin admits it. Fred Phelps does. Martin Luther did. All major Xian leaders have testified to the brutality of God. "He is a vengeful God".

It also clearly states that offending him is much worse than torturing, killing, eating, ripping apart, tearing the flesh, ripping the heads off, throwing over a tall buildings, feeding to dogs... babies.

All of that is forgivable to the Being you worship. But don't say "I deny the Holy Spirit" at any point in your life. THAT is unforgivable.

[OnceConvinced]

And what about from the point of view of a rational human being?

You mean as dictated by cultural cues which varies by century and continent? Regardless, the purpose of this subforum is to have a place to freely engage in debates on Christian theology with the basic assumption that the Bible can be used as a primary reference without the need to defend its authority.

So do you think it's reasonable and rational for God to be upset at blasphemy? Would you care to have a go at answering these questions from the OP?

Why would blasphemy upset an all-knowing, all-powerful perfect being?

What negative effects could it possibly have on this being or anyone else for that matter?

When the people heard the sound of the rams’ horns, they shouted as loud as they could. Suddenly, the walls of Jericho collapsed, and the Israelites charged straight into the town and captured it. They completely destroyed everything in it with their swords—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, goats, and donkeys. --Joshua 6:20-21

When the Israelite army finished chasing and killing all the men of Ai in the open fields, they went back and finished off everyone inside. So the entire population of Ai, including men and women, was wiped out that day—12,000 in all. --Joshua 8:24-25

joey, I think all modern Christians struggle with the brutality of the Old Testament, especially because it was God's will. The only answer I've found is that those people who were destroyed were vile and given plenty of time to repent and change their ways.

So the small children had plenty of time did they? And exactly what did you find that leads you to believe that the people had all been given plenty of time to repent and change their ways?

[RyanP]

Can you tell me the Xian you accept as the authority on the doctrine of the Bible for the purpose of this subforum? Since we accept the Bible as an authority - who has best explained its authoritativeness?

What are you talking about? The Biblical canon has been firmly established for centuries now so that when someone says "Bible" you know what texts they are referring to.

There is brutality in the NT, too. And since you have pointed out that the authority of the Bible is unassailable in this subforum you must accept that Jesus approved of brutality against slaves, and John has a whole book on Jesus and his Flaming Sword-Mouth coming down and killing and reaping and sending souls to Hell. Let's face it, for all the blood in the OT, Jesus ratchets it up an inifite number of notches by sending people to eternal Hellfire.

Hell is not punishment: it is a choice. You have chosen to live your life without God, and God, in His perfect righteousness, administers justice by giving what you have chosen: separation from God. That's all Hell is, by the way; it's just eternity without God.

I disagree that Hell is violent though: it's judgment and anyone and everyone can choose it.