Is a"personal God" viable?

[Dilettante]

I have encountered several people who claim to have a personal relationship with God. The problem is that the very same people also believe that God is an infinite, perfect being, infinitely superior to humans. Still, they say they talk to God as if to a friend. I have often wondered how this is possible. There is an equality between human persons that is clearly lacking in the God-human relationship. Besides, the Christian God (for example) is not just a non-human person, but reportedly three. Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that the kind of relationship these people can have with God, if any, is rather like the relationship I have with my dog, or perhaps my goldfish? Isn't God on a totally different level?

[Bro Dave]

And how can that bridge be built? What do you mean by the universe's "many levels of administration"? That sounds like something out of a science-fiction novel. Can you support your assertions with arguments or evidence or is it just a hunch?

No, it’s the outcome of 30 years of investigation;
For what its worth, here is the Table of Contents of the Urantia Book. (Its 2000 pages, so don’t expect any glib answers)

The Contents of the Urantia Papers

The Foreword.

The Parts of the Book:

PART I (Paper 1 to Paper 31)
THE CENTRAL AND SUPERUNIVERSES
Sponsored by a Uversa Corps of Superuniverse Personalities acting by authority of the Orvonton Ancients of Days

PART II (Paper 32 to Paper 56)
THE LOCAL UNIVERSE
Sponsored by a Nebadon Corps of Local Universe Personalities acting by
authority of Gabriel of Salvington

PART III (Paper 57 to Paper 119)
THE HISTORY OF URANTIA
These papers were sponsored by a Corps of Local Universe Personalities acting by authority of Gabriel of Salvington

PART IV (Paper 120 to Paper 196)
THE LIFE AND TEACHINGS OF JESUS
This group of papers was sponsored by a commission of twelve Urantia midwayers acting under the supervision of a Melchizedek revelatory director. The basis of this narrative was supplied by a secondary midwayer who was one-time assigned to the superhuman watch-care of the Apostle Andrew.




The Titles of the Papers Author

Foreword. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Divine Counselor

PART I. THE CENTRAL AND SUPERUNIVERSES

1. The Universal Father . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Divine Counselor
2. The Nature of God . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Divine Counselor
3. The Attributes of God . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Divine Counselor
4. God's Relation to the Universe . . . . . . . . . . Divine Counselor
5. God's Relation to the Individual . . . . . . . . . Divine Counselor
6. The Eternal Son . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Divine Counselor
7. Relation of the Eternal Son to the Universe . . . .Divine Counselor
8. The Infinite Spirit. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Divine Counselor
9. Relation of the Infinite Spirit to the Universe . .Divine Counselor
10. The Paradise Trinity . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Universal Censor
11. The Eternal Isle of Paradise . . . . . . . . . . Perfector of Wisdom
12. The Universe of Universes . . . . . . . . . . . .Perfector of Wisdom
13. The Sacred Spheres of Paradise . . . . . . . . . .Perfector of Wisdom
14. The Central and Divine Universe . . . . . . . . . Perfector of Wisdom
15. The Seven Superuniverses . . . . . . . . . . . . Universal Censor
16. The Seven Master Spirits . . . . . . . . . . . . Universal Censor
17. The Seven Supreme Spirit Groups . . . . . . . . . Divine Counselor
18. The Supreme Trinity Personalities . . . . . . . . Divine Counselor
19. The Co-ordinate Trinity-Origin Beings. . . . . . Divine Counselor
20. The Paradise Sons of God . . . . . . . . . . . . Perfector of Wisdom
21. The Paradise Creator Sons . . . . . . . . . . . . Perfector of Wisdom
22. The Trinitized Sons of God . . . . . . . . . . . Mighty Messenger
23. The Solitary Messengers . . . . . . . . . . . . . Divine Counselor
24. Higher Personalities of the Infinite Spirit . . . Divine Counselor
25. The Messenger Hosts of Space . . . . . . . . . . .One High in Authority
26. Ministering Spirits of the Central Universe. . . Perfector of Wisdom
27. Ministry of the Primary Supernaphim . . . . . . . Perfector of Wisdom
28. Ministering Spirits of the Superuniverses . . . . Mighty Messenger
29. The Universe Power Directors . . . . . . . . . . .Universal Censor
30. Personalities of the Grand Universe. . . . . . . .Mighty Messenger
31. The Corps of the Finality . . . . . . . . . . . . Divine Counselor and
One Without Name and Number
PART II. THE LOCAL UNIVERSE

32. The Evolution of Local Universes . . . . . . . . Mighty Messenger
33. Administration of the Local Universe . . . .. . . Chief of Archangels
34. The Local Universe Mother Spirit . . . . . . . . Mighty Messenger
35. The Local Universe Sons of God . . . . . . . . . Chief of Archangels
36. The Life Carriers . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Vorondadek Son
37. Personalities of the Local Universe . . . . . . . Brilliant Evening Star
38. Ministering Spirits of the Local Universe. . . . Melchizedek
39. The Seraphic Hosts . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Melchizedek
40. The Ascending Sons of God . . . . . . . . . . . . Messenger
41. Physical Aspects of the Local Universe. . . . . . Archangel
42. Energy-Mind and Matter. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Mighty Messenger
43. The Constellations. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Malavatia Melchizedek
44. The Celestial Artisans. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Archangel
45. The Local System Administration . . . . . . . . . Melchizedek
46. The Local System Headquarters . . . . . . . . . . Archangel
47. The Seven Mansion Worlds . . . . . . . . . . . . Brilliant Evening Star
48. The Morontia Life . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Archangel
49. The Inhabited Worlds . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Melchizedek
50. The Planetary Princes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Secondary Lanonandek
51. The Planetary Adams . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Secondary Lanonandek
52. Planetary Mortal Epochs . . . . . . . . . . . . . Mighty Messenger
53. The Lucifer Rebellion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Manovandet Melchizedek
54. Problems of the Lucifer Rebellion . . . . . . . . Mighty Messenger
55. The Spheres of Light and Life . . . . . . . . . . Mighty Messenger
56. Universal Unity . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Mighty Messenger and
Machiventa Melchizedek

PART III. THE HISTORY OF URANTIA

57. The Origin of Urantia . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Life Carrier
58. Life Establishment on Urantia . . . . . . . . . . Life Carrier
59. The Marine-Life Era on Urantia . . . . . . . . . Life Carrier
60. Urantia during the Early Land-Life Era. . . . . . Life Carrier
61. The Mammalian Era on Urantia . . . . . . . . . . .Life Carrier
62. The Dawn Races of Early Man . . . . . . . . . . . Life Carrier
63. The First Human Family . . . . . . . . . . . . . Life Carrier
64. The Evolutionary Races of Color . . . . . . . . . Life Carrier
65. The Overcontrol of Evolution . . . . . . . . . . Life Carrier
66. The Planetary Prince of Urantia . . . . . . . . .Melchizedek
67. The Planetary Rebellion . . . . . . . . . . . . . Melchizedek
68. The Dawn of Civilization . . . . . . . . . . . . Melchizedek
69. Primitive Human Institutions . . . . . . . . . . Melchizedek
70. The Evolution of Human Government . . . . . . . . Melchizedek
71. Development of the State . . . . . . . . . . . . Melchizedek
72. Government on a Neighboring Planet . . . . . . . Melchizedek
73. The Garden of Eden . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Solonia
74. Adam and Eve . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Solonia
75. The Default of Adam and Eve . . . . . . . . . . . Solonia
76. The Second Garden . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Solonia
77. The Midway Creatures . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Archangel
78. The Violet Race after the Days of Adam . . . . . Archangel
79. Andite Expansion in the Orient . . . . . . . . . .Archangel
80. Andite Expansion in the Occident . . . . . . . . .Archangel
81. Development of Modern Civilization . . . . . . . .Archangel
82. The Evolution of Marriage . . . . . . . . . . . .Chief of Seraphim
83. The Marriage Institution . . . . . . . . . . . . Chief of Seraphim
84. Marriage and Family Life. . . . . . . . . . . . Chief of Seraphim
85. The Origins of Worship . . . . . . . . . . . . . Brilliant Evening Star
86. Early Evolution of Religion . . . . . . . . . . .Brilliant Evening Star
87. The Ghost Cults . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Brilliant Evening Star
88. Fetishes, Charms, and Magic . . . . . . . . . . .Brilliant Evening Star
89. Sin, Sacrifice, and Atonement . . . . . . . . . .Brilliant Evening Star
90. Shamanism-Medicine Men and Priests . . . . . . . .Melchizedek
91. The Evolution of Prayer . . . . . . . . . . . . .Chief of Midwayers
92. The Later Evolution of Religion . . . . . . . . . Melchizedek
93. Machiventa Melchizedek . . . . . . . . . . . . . Melchizedek
94. The Melchizedek Teachings in the Orient . . . . . Melchizedek
95. The Melchizedek Teachings in the Levant . . . . . Melchizedek
96. Yahweh-God of the Hebrews . . . . . . . . . . . . Melchizedek
97. Evolution of the God Concept among the Hebrews. . Melchizedek
98. The Melchizedek Teachings in the Occident . . . . Melchizedek
99. Social Problems of Religion . . . . . . . . . . . Melchizedek
100. Religion in Human Experience . . . . . . . . . . Melchizedek
101. The Real Nature of Religion . . . . . . . . . . Melchizedek
102. The Foundations of Religious Faith . . . . . . . Melchizedek
103. The Reality of Religious Experience . . . . . . .Melchizedek
104. Growth of the Trinity Concept . . . . . . . . . .Melchizedek
105. Deity and Reality . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Melchizedek
106. Universe Levels of Reality . . . . . . . . . . .Melchizedek
107. Origin and Nature of Thought Adjusters . . . . . Solitary Messenger
108. Mission and Ministry of Thought Adjusters . . . Solitary Messenger
109. Relation of Adjusters to Universe Creatures . . Solitary Messenger
110. Relation of Adjusters to Individual Mortals . . .Solitary Messenger
111. The Adjuster and the Soul . . . . . . . . . . . Solitary Messenger
112. Personality Survival . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Solitary Messenger
113. The Seraphic Guardians of Destiny . . . . . . . .Chief of Seraphim
114. Seraphic Planetary Government . . . . . . . . . .Chief of Seraphim
115. The Supreme Being . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Mighty Messenger
116. The Almighty Supreme . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Mighty Messenger
117. God the Supreme . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Mighty Messenger
118. Supreme and Ultimate-Time and Space . . . . . . .Mighty Messenger
119. The Bestowals of Christ Michael . . . . . . . . .Chief of Evening Stars

PART IV. THE LIFE AND TEACHINGS OF JESUS

120. The Bestowal of Michael on Urantia . . . . . . . . Mantutia Melchizedek
121. The Times of Michael's Bestowal . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
122. Birth and Infancy of Jesus . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
123. The Early Childhood of Jesus . . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
124. The Later Childhood of Jesus . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
125. Jesus at Jerusalem . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
126. The Two Crucial Years . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
127. The Adolescent Years . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
128. Jesus' Early Manhood . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
129. The Later Adult Life of Jesus . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
130. On the Way to Rome . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
131. The World's Religions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
132. The Sojourn at Rome . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
133. The Return from Rome . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
134. The Transition Years . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
135. John the Baptist . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
136. Baptism and the Forty Days . . . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
137. Tarrying Time in Galilee . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
138. Training the Kingdom's Messengers. . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
139. The Twelve Apostles . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
140. The Ordination of the Twelve . . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
141. Beginning the Public Work . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
142. The Passover at Jerusalem . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
143. Going Through Samaria . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
144. At Gilboa and in the Decapolis . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
145. Four Eventful Days at Capernaum . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
146. First Preaching Tour of Galilee . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
147. The Interlude Visit to Jerusalem . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
148. Training Evangelists at Bethsaida . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
149. The Second Preaching Tour . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
150. The Third Preaching Tour . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
151. Tarrying and Teaching by the Seaside . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
152. Events Leading up to the Capernaum Crisis . . . . .Midwayer Commission
153. The Crisis at Capernaum . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
154. Last Days at Capernaum . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
155. Fleeing Through Northern Galilee . . .. . . . . . Midwayer Commission
156. The Sojourn at Tyre and Sidon. . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
157. At Caesarea-Philippi . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
158. The Mount of Transfiguration . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
159. The Decapolis Tour . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
160. Rodan of Alexandria . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
161. Further Discussions with Rodan . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
162. At the Feast of Tabernacles . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
163. Ordination of the Seventy at Magadan. . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
164. At the Feast of Dedication . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
165. The Perean Mission Begins . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
166. Last Visit to Northern Perea . . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
167. The Visit to Philadelphia . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
168. The Resurrection of Lazarus . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
169. Last Teaching at Pella . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
170. The Kingdom of Heaven . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
171. On the Way to Jerusalem . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
172. Going into Jerusalem . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
173. Monday in Jerusalem . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
174. Tuesday Morning in the Temple . . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
175. The Last Temple Discourse. . . . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
176. Tuesday Evening on Mount Olivet . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
177. Wednesday, The Rest Day . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
178. Last Day at the Camp . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
179. The Last Supper . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
180. The Farewell Discourse . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
181. Final Admonitions and Warnings . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
182. In Gethsemane . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
183. The Betrayal and Arrest of Jesus . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
184. Before the Sanhedrin Court . . . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
185. The Trial Before Pilate . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
186. Just Before the Crucifixion . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
187. The Crucifixion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
188. The Time of the Tomb . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
189. The Resurrection . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
190. Morontia Appearances of Jesus . . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
191. Appearances to the Apostles and Other Leaders . . .Midwayer Commission
192. Appearances in Galilee . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
193. Final Appearances and Ascension . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission
194. Bestowal of the Spirit of Truth . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
195. After Pentecost . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Midwayer Commission
196. The Faith of Jesus . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Midwayer Commission

[Dilettante]

Mattu wrote:

None of us can understand time, eternity, life outside of physical bodie sor anything. But you know what, there are hundreds if not thousands account sof near death experiences with accurate explanations of things people saw when they were not in their bodies. Even outside of that, people claim to be able to trancende space and time through meditation and such which I believe would be your soul.

Scientists have proposed perfectly rational explanations for NDE (near deah experiences) which account for the similarities observed. And mystical experiences are by definition subjective and, according to those who have had them, ineffable or indescribable. This means that the only way to investigate a mystical experience is to have one yourself. Besides, the fact that such experiences are often triggered by deprivation of food (fasting) or external stimuli (prolonged isolation) or other extreme conditions casts doubt on whether they are supernatural or just a natural response of the body. So we really don't know, and we tend to adopt a position based on gut feelings, which in my experience are often not the best guide.
And yes, I would like there to be some sort of an afterlife. But whether there is one or not does not depend on my feelings about it. I hope it's true but, how do I know? The answer is "I just don't know".
Thanks for your response, anyway.

[Dilettante]

Bro Dave, why do you think the Urantia book has the answers? I have read only a little bit online (my eyes get tired of staring at the screen and it's a long book), and found it obscure and confusing. Is the whole book like that? Besides, nothing that I read struck me as unlikely to have come from human sources. Humans seem to me perfectly capable of writing like that. What's more, I've read that the Urantia book was "channeled" (I suspect actually written) by Wilfred Kellogg, of the Battle Creek Kelloggs, and edited by William Sadler. That makes sense to me. What do you think?

[Bro Dave]

Bro Dave, why do you think the Urantia book has the answers? I have read only a little bit online (my eyes get tired of staring at the screen and it's a long book), and found it obscure and confusing. Is the whole book like that?

Ah yes, you take me back about 30 years to my first attempt at reading the UB. I spent 15 years trying to understand the Forward! I got really frustrated, but could see there was a lot there. Finally, I just started reading parts that I felt I already had some grasp of. No, it is not all confusing. I think most folks fall in love all over with Jesus when they read part IV, which is a first person account of his entire life, as related by a celestial who was present at the time.

Besides, nothing that I read struck me as unlikely to have come from human sources. Humans seem to me perfectly capable of writing like that.

Guess what?, you are correct, at least in part. When the book was authorized, it was stipulated that the celestial were to use human sources whenever possible. That is to say, those thing that we actually had managed to get right, and write down clearly, should be preserved and featured. Only those concepts outside our language were to be new material. And even then, they tried to “stretch” our language a little, so as to keep it all understandable.

What's more, I've read that the Urantia book was "channeled" (I suspect actually written) by Wilfred Kellogg, of the Battle Creek Kelloggs, and edited by William Sadler. That makes sense to me. What do you think?

What I think, is that as usual, those who feel their power base being challenged, set out to misrepresent whatever seems to challenge their status quo. Martin Gardner was a great scientific mind, and wrote many wonderful articles for the Scientific American during his career. However, as a sort of final effort, he decided to write and expose’. He has always wanted to do this, and now he was in his eighties, and time was slipping away. Well, sadly, he randomly chose the Urantia Book as his target. The truly sad part is, he never actually read the book! He simply skimmed through it, and made assumptions based on what he read, and pieces about Kellogg and others that seemed to fit. All were human, and of course not perfect. However, Dr. Sadler was an ardent debunker of psychic nonsense such as mediums. It was with great difficulty that he finally acknowledged that the patient who was “asleep” during his sessions, was sharing something beyond his knowledge or even his interests.
I suggest you go to wikepedia; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urantia, and see what an unbiased source has to say. Its not a perfect picture, but is basically accurate.
For those who invest the effort, this book is like nothing they have ever read. I know many who have read it as many as a dozen times!
FWIW
Bro Dave