Lies and Absurdities within the Bible?

[RavEMasteR]

Well, like the title says, this thread is for debating about lies and absurdities within the Bible. In the end, the Bible will forever be upheld as evil/absurd/rubbish, or as truth/good.

To start it off, I'll provide a site as a massive resource against the Bible. Let us begin, shall we?

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

The above site lists everything out by category, and I mean everything, good or bad.

Note that you can all try to debunk the idea that it's bad by providing a better intepretation of the stuff that's in the site.

Happy intepreting!

[otseng]

Alright, let the debate begin...

That's a huge list to work off of, so I just picked the first one.

The two contradictory creation accounts. Gen 1:1, 2:4-25

The problem is what is the order of creation of humans and animals. In Gen 1, it's pretty clear that humans were created after animals.

With this passage:
"And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field"
Formed is past tense. So, the animals was formed in the past, therefore it can also include before Adam was created.

Also, the following passage:
"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

In terms of being simultaneously created, it doesn't say the time span that they were created here in this verse. It could have been within a single day that they were created, which would correlate with all other passages.

[RavEMasteR]

In case you haven't realised, many people have debated the above so many times over without conclusion. I'd ask you to look at chapters like Judges, and skip Genesis, because that chapter basically holds no weight. The only thing that's interesting in Genesis, though, is that the wives of all the characters, like Cain, had no origin. They just popped out of the ground. Note that the world had just been created, and that Adam & Eve had yet to give birth to a WOMAN...

So how did the wives appear?

Also, another good thing to note is that the Bible contradicts itself on the subject on polygamy, and the worse thing is, the contradictions occur in the same book, done by the same writer, which debunks the idea that the writers wrote according to their own ideas and not God's.

Just look at the following page:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/c ... ygamy.html

[otseng]

In case you haven't realised, many people have debated the above so many times over without conclusion.

No, I didn't realize that.

I'd ask you to look at chapters like Judges, and skip Genesis, because that chapter basically holds no weight.

Skip Genesis? It's the foundational book of the whole Bible. Prove to me that it doesn't hold weight.

The only thing that's interesting in Genesis, though, is that the wives of all the characters, like Cain, had no origin. They just popped out of the ground. Note that the world had just been created, and that Adam & Eve had yet to give birth to a WOMAN...
So how did the wives appear?

Simple, Adam and Eve must've had daughters. Though there's no direct verse that says this (that I know of), it also doesn't say that God created anymore humans than Adam and Eve. And there was nothing precluding them from having daughters.

Also, another good thing to note is that the Bible contradicts itself on the subject on polygamy, and the worse thing is, the contradictions occur in the same book, done by the same writer, which debunks the idea that the writers wrote according to their own ideas and not God's.

Just look at the following page:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/c ... ygamy.html

I wouldn't say that it contradicts itself. The dichotomy is between man's actions and God's ideal. God's plan is monogamy. But mankind, with it's sinful nature, corrupts God's plans. Just because man disobeys God doesn't mean God is in the wrong. Rather, it is man that is in the wrong.

[RavEMasteR]

It doesn't hold any weight since the Bible said that the earth is no older than 10,000 years old, while science says it's over a billion years old. We have went through the verses in Genesis over and over and the two sides just don't agree in any way.

About polygamy, Abraham, one of the so called favourites of God, had countless wives. How could this man be a favourite if he had so many wives, and like you say, is corrupt and sinful? This basically shows either of two things, God is corrupted too and takes sides, or polygamy is NOT a sin, which means contradictions in the Bible.

Either way, none of the above favours God in any way.

Another thing is, incestrous marriage seems to be approved by God in Abram's and Sarai's case. However, in other parts of the Bible, it was condemned. Now you tell me, shall we have incest or not?

[otseng]

It doesn't hold any weight since the Bible said that the earth is no older than 10,000 years old, while science says it's over a billion years old. We have went through the verses in Genesis over and over and the two sides just don't agree in any way.

Actually, the Bible never says it's only 10,000 years old. Bible scholars have said that, but you can't find a verse that says that.

About polygamy, Abraham, one of the so called favourites of God, had countless wives. How could this man be a favourite if he had so many wives, and like you say, is corrupt and sinful? This basically shows either of two things, God is corrupted too and takes sides, or polygamy is NOT a sin, which means contradictions in the Bible.

That's the beauty of God's love. Even though we all are sinful, God accepts each person anyways. The mystery of God's love is that we don't have to be perfect for God to love us and accept us.

Another thing is, incestrous marriage seems to be approved by God in Abram's and Sarai's case. However, in other parts of the Bible, it was condemned. Now you tell me, shall we have incest or not?

You know, all these are great questions. And it'd take a long time to answer these, let me suggest starting a new thread for every new discussion. I'll start one on incest.

[RavEMasteR]

Okay, here's the thing. If God's love accepts everyone as they are, then why do we have people burning in Hell? If sin is excusable in Abraham's case, I don't see how a fair God can actually consider Abraham to be His favourite. Abraham should've been sent to Hell, along with all the other sinners like Him.

The above shows that God is either just insane, or is taking sides.

[pinkpau]

Okay, here's the thing. If God's love accepts everyone as they are, then why do we have people burning in Hell?

because, they dont believe. because, Christ wasnt welcomed into their hearts. and because, they are not holy enough for Heaven, and they didnt want to be cleansed by the blood of Christ to be heaven worthy.

thus, they go to hell.

[otseng]

Okay, here's the thing. If God's love accepts everyone as they are, then why do we have people burning in Hell? If sin is excusable in Abraham's case, I don't see how a fair God can actually consider Abraham to be His favourite. Abraham should've been sent to Hell, along with all the other sinners like Him.

The above shows that God is either just insane, or is taking sides.

Let me explain it this way. Let's suppose your parents love you (I hope that's a fair assumption). Why do they love you? Because you are perfect? I doubt it. They love you simply because you are their son. Do they accept you? Hopefully they do. But do they accept you because you are perfect? No. Again, because you were made in their image is why they accept you.

Same with God. We are all in the image of God. So God accepts us and loves us.

Now, the problem is that God is a totally righteous dude. He is so perfect that not a single thing is wrong with him. And he can't stand a single wrong thing to be with him either. Suppose you were the President of the US (or whatever country). And you find out that one of your cabinet members is corrupt. What would you do? You'd fire him. God is the same way, except on an infinite level. We have one single thing wrong with us and we're cast out.

But here's the problem, God loves us as parents, but we're sinful and can't be in the presence of God. How does God resolve this problem?

He sent a queen to the chess board of life. It is the all powerful piece. But, even as the all powerful piece, it must still play by the rules. He sacrifices the queen, but in the end, allows us as a pawn to be promoted to a queen. In other words, God has sent Jesus who was perfect to die. And we in turn exchange our sins for Christ's sinlessness. We become totally sinless. The key in all this is faith.

Faith is what justified Abraham. As a matter of fact, he is called the father of faith. So, even though Abraham was a sinner just like all of us, his faith made him righteous.

[House Wren]

Well, like the title says, this thread is for debating about lies and absurdities within the Bible. In the end, the Bible will forever be upheld as evil/absurd/rubbish, or as truth/good.

What if it isn't an either/or situation? What if we suppose that the beginning of creation could only be expressed in terms the transcriber could understand? Would it still make the information rubbish?

Suspend for one moment, if you will, your skepticism. There is an all-powerful, all-knowing God who is creating new life on a new planet. This God knows what He's doing, and so here we are. But the problem is to dictate to Moses (who wrote the first 5 books of the Bible) what He did in terms that Moses can understand. Moses has no concept of biology, geology, botany, astronomy that compares to what we know nowadays.
So God does the best He can to teach Moses what He did, and He does manage to teach Moses the important things--that is, that He (God) made everything and that mankind is a special creation of God, and that God wants mankind to worship Him exclusively, not His creation.

That's my take on it. I don't personally think that the Bible was intended to be a science book, but that the principles contained in it are to be our guidelines for leading a virtuous life.

Okay, here's the thing. If God's love accepts everyone as they are, then why do we have people burning in Hell? If sin is excusable in Abraham's case, I don't see how a fair God can actually consider Abraham to be His favourite. Abraham should've been sent to Hell, along with all the other sinners like Him.

God's love recognizes human beings as His children; He does not accept their behavior. He is always willing to forgive, but it is incumbent upon the person being sorry and asking for forgiveness. The role of established religion is to educate the people about God's love and how He provides salvation for us through His Son Jesus Christ. That includes acknowledgement of the need to be saved from our selfish human nature.

If we refuse God's offer of salvation, we are turning our backs on Him, not vice versa. There's a Bible verse that says, Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (It's in one of the New Testament books, perhaps Hebrews--I don't have a concordance handy at the moment). Hell is eternal separation from God, whether it's a place of outer darkness, or fire. He doesn't "send" people to hell. They choose not to be with Him, and that makes hell their destination.