The dichotomy made by some people between science and religion has typically been that science leads to knowledge and religion leads to ignorance. I've been pondering about this because I believe the only way to really know if what you know is right or not is to know something on the scale of truth. However, if neither science nor religion lead to truth, then I believe that the focus has been misleadingly shifted from pursuing truth to arguing over which side is smarter or has more sophistication when none of these necessarily lead to *proving* the truth (or a correct picture of reality). Perhaps overall, both science and religion are pursuing the same thing but in a different way while also falling into distractions of fighting over who's better than who.
To reiterate for debate purposes, I don't intend to debate science vs. religion but rather Truth vs. science and religion. The 4 questions below can serve as specifics on what to debate on for this issue.
Is the dichotomy between science and religion truly based on knowledge and ignorance? In other words, does the use of science always lead to knowledge and the use of religion always to ignorance?
In addition to my previous questions, are the back-and-forth arguments between some religionists and scientists vain? Doesn't both science and religion lack proof or justification to support that their claims are right and won't mislead?
Truth vs. Science and Religion
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Post #41
Making sure the limits are meaningful is usually testing and sometimes liberating but worth the effort.kayky wrote:I already have to my own satisfaction. I refuse to live within the limits you have set for yourself. But if you are happy with your own choices, then I am happy for you.
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About Science + Religion Vs Knowledge and re:kayky
Post #42I'd like to start by replying to the original topic of this discussion, the dichotomy of science and religion versus knowledge and ignorance.
I don't think that religion necessarily breeds ignorance but ignorance begins when religious people stop questioning what they're being taught and what's around them and start dogmatically believing what they're told. Obviously most religious people do question their faith and teachings, but the best way to do this is with the scientific process.
When discussing knowledge, it's obvious Science has far surpassed Religion in it's ability to systematically record and explain natural phenomenon. This development has been measurable with the benefits it has given: longer life, faster transport, technology, space travel etc.
Religion on the other hand, has done little to accumulate knowledge. Admittedly there have been periods when religion has supported science however I would still suggest it's the scientific process that has resulted in these advances, not religion.
I think knowledge needs a definition, I'm English so I'll consult the oxford dictionary!:
knowledge
• noun 1 information and skills acquired through experience or education.
It would seem knowledge is merely information learned, this could mean anything, if I learned the Bible in its entirety I would have acquired vast knowledge..it doesn't mean the information is correct!
So I guess the word we need is truth. This is a difficult words as we are only human and can therefore only understand a degree of truth.
This is why science wins. Science can only say 'this is very likely to be true, so likely that we're willing to run the worlds economy on this scientific discovery 'electricity''. The fact is, to the best of our human ability science can be proven, religion can not.
That's why I think religion doesn't necessarily embody ignorance, but it doesn't facilitate the accumulation of truth unless it utilizes the scientific process.
Also, to add to the previous comment:
Proof is a complicated thing, DeCarte couldn't prove that anything existed apart from his consciousness. It's impossible to prove anything 100%, however there is 'beyond reasonable doubt' proof; the kind of proof we decide to run Nuclear power plants on and other such potentially dangerous technology.
I can't prove God doesn't exists any more than I can't prove aliens haven't taken over the world and are currently impersonating world leaders! The point is I don't need to prove it because there's no compelling evidence to believe in any particular God / alien invasion!
RE: Kayky
it's scientifically 'proven' that there are many more dimensions than the 4 we experience and our senses capture a tiny percentage of the electromagnetic / sound spectrum in our own dimensions!
However, unfortunately what you experienced was most probably an illusion. Your brain is an incredibly powerful graphics processor, it generates everything your see in the real world simply from information about light waves captured by your eyes. Similarly what your hear is your brain creating order from the sound waves captured by your ears. There is no reason to believe what you saw was anything more than a 'hallucination' (which kinda belittles the processing ability of your brain!). A highly complex misinterpretation of the external environment by your brain.
According to science this misinterpretation can lead to anything from a voice on the wind to a full blown vision of an alien abduction / people speaking to you....anything your mind could imagine!
I don't think that religion necessarily breeds ignorance but ignorance begins when religious people stop questioning what they're being taught and what's around them and start dogmatically believing what they're told. Obviously most religious people do question their faith and teachings, but the best way to do this is with the scientific process.
When discussing knowledge, it's obvious Science has far surpassed Religion in it's ability to systematically record and explain natural phenomenon. This development has been measurable with the benefits it has given: longer life, faster transport, technology, space travel etc.
Religion on the other hand, has done little to accumulate knowledge. Admittedly there have been periods when religion has supported science however I would still suggest it's the scientific process that has resulted in these advances, not religion.
I think knowledge needs a definition, I'm English so I'll consult the oxford dictionary!:
knowledge
• noun 1 information and skills acquired through experience or education.
It would seem knowledge is merely information learned, this could mean anything, if I learned the Bible in its entirety I would have acquired vast knowledge..it doesn't mean the information is correct!
So I guess the word we need is truth. This is a difficult words as we are only human and can therefore only understand a degree of truth.
This is why science wins. Science can only say 'this is very likely to be true, so likely that we're willing to run the worlds economy on this scientific discovery 'electricity''. The fact is, to the best of our human ability science can be proven, religion can not.
That's why I think religion doesn't necessarily embody ignorance, but it doesn't facilitate the accumulation of truth unless it utilizes the scientific process.
Also, to add to the previous comment:
Proof is a complicated thing, DeCarte couldn't prove that anything existed apart from his consciousness. It's impossible to prove anything 100%, however there is 'beyond reasonable doubt' proof; the kind of proof we decide to run Nuclear power plants on and other such potentially dangerous technology.
I can't prove God doesn't exists any more than I can't prove aliens haven't taken over the world and are currently impersonating world leaders! The point is I don't need to prove it because there's no compelling evidence to believe in any particular God / alien invasion!
RE: Kayky
it's scientifically 'proven' that there are many more dimensions than the 4 we experience and our senses capture a tiny percentage of the electromagnetic / sound spectrum in our own dimensions!
However, unfortunately what you experienced was most probably an illusion. Your brain is an incredibly powerful graphics processor, it generates everything your see in the real world simply from information about light waves captured by your eyes. Similarly what your hear is your brain creating order from the sound waves captured by your ears. There is no reason to believe what you saw was anything more than a 'hallucination' (which kinda belittles the processing ability of your brain!). A highly complex misinterpretation of the external environment by your brain.
According to science this misinterpretation can lead to anything from a voice on the wind to a full blown vision of an alien abduction / people speaking to you....anything your mind could imagine!
