Blasphemous "How-To" Book

[TwentyOneSix]

A recently published book has come to my attention and I feel it is necessary to warn my fellow Christians about literature's newest strike against religion. The author purports to make religion into a hobby that anyone can do, and goes as far as to insinuate using scrap materials out of one's garage to build pagan idols for worship! These people sit around drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes and doing lord knows what else, they put some words on paper and think they're good enough to be the lord himself! What's worse, the misguided and ignorant masses blind to the guiding light of god are buying into this filth! This book not only insults Christianity, but the entire concept of religion itself!

This is why we shouldn't teach public school children to read and write; the liberal public school system indoctrinates them into a hollywood-controlled and godless society by strictly enforcing atheism on them, and then our tax dollars teach these pitiful brainwashed kids how to commit travesties like this! If we could only limit the teaching of literacy to good, law-abiding, religious, private school children then things like this wouldn't happen.

Here's a link in case anyone doesn't believe me:

[Coyotero]

I really hope this post is meant to be satirical.

A recently published book has come to my attention and I feel it is necessary to warn my fellow Christians about literature's newest strike against religion. The author purports to make religion into a hobby that anyone can do, and goes as far as to insinuate using scrap materials out of one's garage to build pagan idols for worship!

What's wrong with Pagan idols? I happen to be quite fond of mine. I realize your God is not crazy about such things, but your religion is neither absolute nor universal, regardless of what your book says.

These people sit around drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes and doing lord knows what else, they put some words on paper and think they're good enough to be the lord himself!

Many people enjoy coffee and cigarettes. I like a cup of joe and even enjoy a fine cigar now and then, nothing wrong with that.

Who are you to say that anyone's creation is more or less divine than your Gods? Out of 4,000+ religions in the world, what do you have to prove that you are right and everyone else is going to hell?

What's worse, the misguided and ignorant masses blind to the guiding light of god are buying into this filth! This book not only insults Christianity, but the entire concept of religion itself!

To what "Blinding light of god" are you referring? He seems oddly absent, and believe me, I looked for it.

This is why we shouldn't teach public school children to read and write;

You're kidding right? For the love of Gods please tell me you're joking...

the liberal public school system indoctrinates them into a hollywood-controlled and godless society by strictly enforcing atheism on them, and then our tax dollars teach these pitiful brainwashed kids how to commit travesties like this!

Oh, Gods, you're not joking.

First of all, Hollywood is awesome. Really, they make some great, entertaining movies. You should watch one sometime. A broad worldview is good.

Explain how society is "godless" please... Last I checked, Atheists and Agnostics were the minority.

How does public schooling strictly enforce atheism on kids? I was never forced into any such belief in school, in fact, there were several religious groups of different faiths quite active at my school, and most of my friends schools. Show me some evidence please.

If we could only limit the teaching of literacy to good, law-abiding, religious, private school children then things like this wouldn't happen.

Do you really believe this? How can you believe this? Enforcing ignorance on the vast majority of the human race? Do you really want to see us back in the middle ages?

"Forget making advances in medicine, someone might use their knowledge to insult God, Oh noes!"

Here's a link in case anyone doesn't believe me:

Thanks, I think I'm going to order a copy.

[TwentyOneSix]

I really hope this post is meant to be satirical.

Someone who would defend something like this would think that way. I, for one, don't think the lord appreciates being insulted. He created the heavens and the Earth, I hardly see how he's a joke.

What's wrong with Pagan idols? I happen to be quite fond of mine. I realize your God is not crazy about such things, but your religion is neither absolute nor universal, regardless of what your book says.

Christianity may not be the only religion, but it's the only one that's right. To be Jewish or Muslim or Catholic is to be misguided in the worship of god, but to pay respect to an old world demonic entity or worse yet nothing at all is akin to devil worship. I don't know for sure that the misguided children of god will go to hell, perhaps he will have mercy on them in the end and show them their mistakes, but I do know that shunning the one true god to devote your life to evil spirits will condemn you to eternal damnation. I will pray for you to see the light, may god have mercy on your soul.

Many people enjoy coffee and cigarettes. I like a cup of joe and even enjoy a fine cigar now and then, nothing wrong with that.

God gave you a working body so that you might use it to worship his name and promote word of his name here on Earth. To destroy yourself with drugs and vices, legal or not, is hateful to the lord.

Who are you to say that anyone's creation is more or less divine than your Gods? Out of 4,000+ religions in the world, what do you have to prove that you are right and everyone else is going to hell?

Because I feel the holy light of god's love radiating down from the heavens to shine upon my life. I have been devout my whole life and he has blessed me for my dedication, I pity that you have not been given such enlightenment, I'm sure your parents did the best they could.

To what "Blinding light of god" are you referring? He seems oddly absent, and believe me, I looked for it.

Because you have rejected god from your life in favor of cigars and hollywood and pagan devil-worship. Until you can come to your sense and accept the lord into your life, you will live a cursed existence on this world before suffering for all eternity in the depths of hell.

You're kidding right? For the love of Gods please tell me you're joking...

If you can't be bothered to read the good book, then what purpose do you have in reading at all? With books like Harry Potter and this new "How to Build a Pagan Devil-God" filth spreading evil and corruption through the world how can you believe even for a moment that godless heathens being able to write is a good thing?

First of all, Hollywood is awesome. Really, they make some great, entertaining movies. You should watch one sometime. A broad worldview is good.

I enjoyed The Passion, but I have to say it didn't stack up to the true story in the Bible. Good films have been dying out though, God is being phased out of entertainment in favor of mindless violence, devil-worship, and pornography. Hollywood warps society into thinking that things like homosexuality, drugs, premarital sex, satanism, and murder are okay. Most movies outright promote anarchy, by tacitly accepting this we accelerate the coming of the end of the world. We shouldn't tolerate evil because it's convenient or "entertaining" because the destructiveness of a movie often outweighs its entertainment value.

Explain how society is "godless" please... Last I checked, Atheists and Agnostics were the minority.

"Liberal Christians" who find some parts of god's message to be too harsh and insensitive are just as bad, and they're multiplying faster than gays. Hollywood and television and even some literature turn god into some kind of joke and turn murderers or drug addicts into heroes. They're making satan look cool with subliminal messages the same way they forced children to take up smoking.

How does public schooling strictly enforce atheism on kids? I was never forced into any such belief in school, in fact, there were several religious groups of different faiths quite active at my school, and most of my friends schools. Show me some evidence please.

All of this "separation of church and state" nonsense, with people trying to take god out of the pledge of allegiance and forcing religious plays and prayer out of public schools. In trying to be "friendly" toward every religion they create a religion-hostile environment that promotes wrong ways of life like atheism and satanism. A public school child with the proper guidance might grow up right, but if left unguided and taught about baseless scientific theories with no knowledge of god they will live their lives in the dark.

Do you really believe this? How can you believe this? Enforcing ignorance on the vast majority of the human race? Do you really want to see us back in the middle ages?

Would it really be so bad? Back then everyone was unified under the love of the one true god. Catholicism ruled the day but at least they were in the right ballpark. No one questioned the word of the lord, for it was the only word they knew, and they lived their lives basking in the warmth of god's love before ascending to heaven. It was certainly a better time than today's world, where Christianity is fought and ridiculed.

People will write what they believe in, and that's why I think literacy needs its limits. Teaching an atheist how to read and write is like giving and arsonist a can of gas and a book of matches; you're only enabling them to cause the damage they want to cause. Believing that there is no god, they will write that there is no god, and the misguided among us might accept such a blasphemous message. Is that what you want?

"Forget making advances in medicine, someone might use their knowledge to insult God, Oh noes!"

What has medicine done to help spread the name of the lord? When he tries to take one of his children to heaven they are locked in a vegetative purgatory with life support. When he damns a sinner with disease, they are healed so that they might continue leading their lives of sin without heeding the warning. When a woman wants to lead the sinful life of a harlot she is given pills so they she never has to accept the responsibility of new life. Or worse, she has the child murdered at a baby murdering clinic.

In what way is the current state of medicine not hateful to god?

Thanks, I think I'm going to order a copy.

You may as well make a donation to a satanist church, you're putting money in the hands of a dangerous blasphemer and supporting evil.

[Coyotero]

I really hope this post is meant to be satirical.

Someone who would defend something like this would think that way. I, for one, don't think the lord appreciates being insulted. He created the heavens and the Earth, I hardly see how he's a joke.

I don't believe he created anything. He's a tribal leader, just like my own pantheon. If he's insulted, I'm sure he'll find the time in his bust schedule to take it up with the authors.

What's wrong with Pagan idols? I happen to be quite fond of mine. I realize your God is not crazy about such things, but your religion is neither absolute nor universal, regardless of what your book says.

Christianity may not be the only religion, but it's the only one that's right. To be Jewish or Muslim or Catholic is to be misguided in the worship of god, but to pay respect to an old world demonic entity or worse yet nothing at all is akin to devil worship. I don't know for sure that the misguided children of god will go to hell, perhaps he will have mercy on them in the end and show them their mistakes, but I do know that shunning the one true god to devote your life to evil spirits will condemn you to eternal damnation. I will pray for you to see the light, may god have mercy on your soul.

First prove to me that your religion is "the only one that's right".

Second, don't call the deities and spirits that are dear to me evil. I don't say such things about your God or the man Jesus, a little mutual respect is in order, lest you want to get booted off the forum.

Many people enjoy coffee and cigarettes. I like a cup of joe and even enjoy a fine cigar now and then, nothing wrong with that.

God gave you a working body so that you might use it to worship his name and promote word of his name here on Earth. To destroy yourself with drugs and vices, legal or not, is hateful to the lord.

I don't buy it. Could be a worthy debate topic though.

My body was created by my parents and my honored ancestors. We are on earth because it is a place made for us to inhabit, not to go around forcing our beliefs on others. You've got one life, I plan on enjoying mine, not living in fear of it.

Who are you to say that anyone's creation is more or less divine than your Gods? Out of 4,000+ religions in the world, what do you have to prove that you are right and everyone else is going to hell?

Because I feel the holy light of god's love radiating down from the heavens to shine upon my life. I have been devout my whole life and he has blessed me for my dedication, I pity that you have not been given such enlightenment, I'm sure your parents did the best they could.

My parents didn't do much, thank you. You assume quite a bit. I found the Cristian church all by myself, absorbed myself into it for a few of my teenage years, and ultimately left feeling more alienated and confused.

To what "Blinding light of god" are you referring? He seems oddly absent, and believe me, I looked for it.

Because you have rejected god from your life in favor of cigars and hollywood and pagan devil-worship. Until you can come to your sense and accept the lord into your life, you will live a cursed existence on this world before suffering for all eternity in the depths of hell.

I don't worship the devil... I don't believe in the devil.... Belief is kind of a prerequisite to the whole worship thing.

I accepted the lord into my life. He didn't do jack for me. There was lots of time when I was thinking about leaving, contemplating it... Years even. He had plenty of time to show me this 'blinding light' and did nothing. That leads me to conclude that (A) He is powerless to do so, (B) He can do so but chooses not to, or (C) he doesn't exist at all.

Either way, I want nothing to do with him any longer. He dropped the ball.

You're kidding right? For the love of Gods please tell me you're joking...

If you can't be bothered to read the good book, then what purpose do you have in reading at all? With books like Harry Potter and this new "How to Build a Pagan Devil-God" filth spreading evil and corruption through the world how can you believe even for a moment that godless heathens being able to write is a good thing?

I did read the "good book"... Full of incest, war, curses, plagues, pagan magic, sex, violence, murder, and torture... Kind of like the much-maligned Hollywood movies. And Harry Potter is damn entertaining fantasy... Read: FANTASY.. You know, entertainment, like this evil book is.

Interesting you use the word Heathen. The origin of the word is old Germanic "one from the heath" and was used to describe the tribesmen of ancient northern Europe. It's a term that we in the Asatru faith use on each other often, as a term of endearment and honor... We are far from Godless, though, in fact, we have many more than you.

First of all, Hollywood is awesome. Really, they make some great, entertaining movies. You should watch one sometime. A broad worldview is good.

I enjoyed The Passion, but I have to say it didn't stack up to the true story in the Bible. Good films have been dying out though, God is being phased out of entertainment in favor of mindless violence, devil-worship, and pornography. Hollywood warps society into thinking that things like homosexuality, drugs, premarital sex, satanism, and murder are okay. Most movies outright promote anarchy, by tacitly accepting this we accelerate the coming of the end of the world. We shouldn't tolerate evil because it's convenient or "entertaining" because the destructiveness of a movie often outweighs its entertainment value.

I thought The Passion was a bit dull myself. The art direction was superb, the casting was excellent, and I enjoyed hearing the old Latin and Aramaic, but it was all just watching two hours of torture... I thought it was kind of lame that they focused on that, there were so many great things Jesus did, so many grand adventures they could have made a film out of, I thought focusing on the trial and execution was a bit depressing.

Homosexuality is alright, not my thing, but who am I to judge someone else? Drugs are also, not my thing, but I know plenty of people who enjoy them and use them responsibly... No problem there. Premarital sex is great, gave me my daughter, the best thing in my life. Satanism, well, that's fine too, if a person wants to follow a different spiritual path, it's not my place to correct them. Murder is rarely okay, but it does make for an enjoyable FANTASY.

I've never seen a movie destroy anything, so your point is moot.

Explain how society is "godless" please... Last I checked, Atheists and Agnostics were the minority.

"Liberal Christians" who find some parts of god's message to be too harsh and insensitive are just as bad, and they're multiplying faster than gays. Hollywood and television and even some literature turn god into some kind of joke and turn murderers or drug addicts into heroes. They're making satan look cool with subliminal messages the same way they forced children to take up smoking.

Prove that liberal Christians are multiplying faster than gays. Prove that gays are multiplying (I thought the whole gay thing would rule out that possibility.). Prove that subliminal messegas are are making Satan look cool. Show me a child who was "forced" to take up smoking because of television. If you cannot, please respectfully retract your argument.

How does public schooling strictly enforce atheism on kids? I was never forced into any such belief in school, in fact, there were several religious groups of different faiths quite active at my school, and most of my friends schools. Show me some evidence please.

All of this "separation of church and state" nonsense, with people trying to take god out of the pledge of allegiance and forcing religious plays and prayer out of public schools. In trying to be "friendly" toward every religion they create a religion-hostile environment that promotes wrong ways of life like atheism and satanism. A public school child with the proper guidance might grow up right, but if left unguided and taught about baseless scientific theories with no knowledge of god they will live their lives in the dark.

Prove it. You have zero proof. Most scientific theories are far from baseless. Belief in god (Even my own belief in my gods) is baseless. Science is not. That's why it's science.

Do you really believe this? How can you believe this? Enforcing ignorance on the vast majority of the human race? Do you really want to see us back in the middle ages?

Would it really be so bad? Back then everyone was unified under the love of the one true god. Catholicism ruled the day but at least they were in the right ballpark. No one questioned the word of the lord, for it was the only word they knew, and they lived their lives basking in the warmth of god's love before ascending to heaven. It was certainly a better time than today's world, where Christianity is fought and ridiculed.

Crusades, famine, plague, war, revolts, slavery, serfdom, witch trials, Schisms, ... Nobody was unified under anything. You obviously have little grasp of history, my friend, if you think everyone was unified under love.

Go read about the wholesale slaughter of my Heathen ancestors by St. Olaf, and then try to tell me about this "Unified under the love of the one true God" nonsense. Heathens and pagans practiced for centuries in secret all over europe, there was none of this imaginary communal religion you speak of.

People will write what they believe in, and that's why I think literacy needs its limits. Teaching an atheist how to read and write is like giving and arsonist a can of gas and a book of matches; you're only enabling them to cause the damage they want to cause. Believing that there is no god, they will write that there is no god, and the misguided among us might accept such a blasphemous message. Is that what you want?

Yes.

"Forget making advances in medicine, someone might use their knowledge to insult God, Oh noes!"

What has medicine done to help spread the name of the lord? When he tries to take one of his children to heaven they are locked in a vegetative purgatory with life support. When he damns a sinner with disease, they are healed so that they might continue leading their lives of sin without heeding the warning. When a woman wants to lead the sinful life of a harlot she is given pills so they she never has to accept the responsibility of new life. Or worse, she has the child murdered at a baby murdering clinic.

In what way is the current state of medicine not hateful to god?

I'm not even going to dignify this with a response.

Thanks, I think I'm going to order a copy.

You may as well make a donation to a satanist church, you're putting money in the hands of a dangerous blasphemer and supporting evil.

[/quote]

I already told you, I don't believe in Satan.

There's a great community here, and a lot of them are devout Christians, if you'd like to be a part of it, do yourself a favor and read the forum rules, the tone your taking here won't be tolerated by the moderators. This is a place for civil and polite debate, not rudeness and hate speech.

Welcome to the forums.

[TwentyOneSix]

First prove to me that your religion is "the only one that's right".

While I believe very strongly in what I have said, concrete evidence is impossible. For the sake of debate I'll withdraw that statement, though I won't contradict it.

Second, don't call the deities and spirits that are dear to me evil. I don't say such things about your God or the man Jesus, a little mutual respect is in order, lest you want to get booted off the forum.

I didn't mean to come off as insulting, but I was raised to believe that the numerous gods of polytheistic religions were illusions created by the devil to lead mankind away from the true path, and I still firmly hold this belief. But you're right, you've yet to say anything insulting about my god so I should keep such statements to myself.

You've got one life, I plan on enjoying mine, not living in fear of it.

I don't see how a slow suicide by caffeine and tobacco is "enjoying life".

I accepted the lord into my life. He didn't do jack for me. There was lots of time when I was thinking about leaving, contemplating it... Years even. He had plenty of time to show me this 'blinding light' and did nothing. That leads me to conclude that (A) He is powerless to do so, (B) He can do so but chooses not to, or (C) he doesn't exist at all.

He puts many trials in our paths so that we may improve ourselves through overcoming hardship and temptation and prove that we are worthy of ascension into heaven. I have never stopped walking the path, even when I only see one set of footprints.

I did read the "good book"... Full of incest, war, curses, plagues, pagan magic, sex, violence, murder, and torture... Kind of like the much-maligned Hollywood movies.

The Bible does depict sin numerous times, but only to show that such acts are justly punished.

And Harry Potter is damn entertaining fantasy... Read: FANTASY.. You know, entertainment, like this evil book is.

If you read about a boy summoning demons to do his bidding, you're not using any magic yourself. If you stand and watch a man murder someone you didn't kill anyone yourself, but does that make you innocent? Fantasy presents these things in a positive light and makes them seem okay. With generation after generation exposed to this message of acceptance, society gradually becomes less moral. Children are the most susceptible, they will act out movies and video games in school with a pretty high casualty rate. 100 years ago, women couldn't show their ankles in public, now nudist colonies are tolerated and television is overrun with sex and nudity. Entertaining fantasy made that possible, a woman in a scandalous short dress used to be pure fantasy, now look at how short they've gotten in real life! How many times do you think mass murder and genocide will have to be depicted as perfectly fine in the media before the laws on them relax?

We are far from Godless, though, in fact, we have many more than you.

Many pebbles do not equal a boulder.

I thought it was kind of lame that they focused on that, there were so many great things Jesus did, so many grand adventures they could have made a film out of, I thought focusing on the trial and execution was a bit depressing.

We agree on something, at least.

Prove that liberal Christians are multiplying faster than gays. Prove that gays are multiplying (I thought the whole gay thing would rule out that possibility.). Prove that subliminal messegas are are making Satan look cool. Show me a child who was "forced" to take up smoking because of television. If you cannot, please respectfully retract your argument.

I don't have hard number handy, so I will retract the statement.

Prove it. You have zero proof. Most scientific theories are far from baseless. Belief in god (Even my own belief in my gods) is baseless. Science is not. That's why it's science.

Science is based on abstract concepts and theories that are supposedly too small to be seen by the eye, or just "invisible". When you take all of these concepts for granted as absolute truth, science makes sense. However, if you look at the most basic concepts with a grain of salt it becomes clear that it's all a case of the masses believing it because it's "common sense" or because someone in glasses and a lab coat said it was true.

I'm not quite sure I believe that the human body is 90% water or that all of the air and water on the earth is trapped by a magic forcefield made of pollution. Don't just start talking about cells and atoms and think it's proof; those are the basic concepts I'm talking about. Science can show you pictures of it but pictures can be faked. It's also worthy of consideration that new science continually disproves old science. How many times does a liar have to tell you "...but this time, I really mean it!" before you discredit them?

Go read about the wholesale slaughter of my Heathen ancestors by St. Olaf, and then try to tell me about this "Unified under the love of the one true God" nonsense. Heathens and pagans practiced for centuries in secret all over europe, there was none of this imaginary communal religion you speak of.

I hardly see how the justified execution of dangerous cults to bring Christian civilization to a barbaric land is cause for upset. His methods may have been extreme, but he took the best course of action that he knew of at the time.

There's a great community here, and a lot of them are devout Christians, if you'd like to be a part of it, do yourself a favor and read the forum rules, the tone your taking here won't be tolerated by the moderators. This is a place for civil and polite debate, not rudeness and hate speech.

Yes, I feel like I owe you an apology. I live in a very strongly Christian community and I have a tendency to grow rather impassioned about my beliefs when I feel they are being challenged. I suppose I have been rather hard-headed; I don't think I can convert you through the internet so I just have to let it go.

[Coyotero]

First prove to me that your religion is "the only one that's right".

While I believe very strongly in what I have said, concrete evidence is impossible. For the sake of debate I'll withdraw that statement, though I won't contradict it.

And that is fine. I can't prove mine either. The difference is, I don't feel the need to defeat yours.

Second, don't call the deities and spirits that are dear to me evil. I don't say such things about your God or the man Jesus, a little mutual respect is in order, lest you want to get booted off the forum.

I didn't mean to come off as insulting, but I was raised to believe that the numerous gods of polytheistic religions were illusions created by the devil to lead mankind away from the true path, and I still firmly hold this belief. But you're right, you've yet to say anything insulting about my god so I should keep such statements to myself.

You can believe what you want, and it is your right to do so, thank you for respecting my right to do so as well.

Let me, if I may, draw an analogy for you: What if I were to postulate that your Jesus was actually Loke in disguise (he can take whatever form he pleases, and perform many miraculous acts using Seidr magic, according to the sagas.) and he came to earth to create a religion that was specifically designed to harm Odin's followers and drive them away from the truth.

It sounds ridiculous to you, doesn't it? But that's exactly what you're telling me you believe. For what it's worth, I don't believe that, but I think it stands as a good illustration.

You've got one life, I plan on enjoying mine, not living in fear of it.

I don't see how a slow suicide by caffeine and tobacco is "enjoying life".

Something's gonna kill me. The allfather cut the skein of my life long ago. If I were to run and hide in a hole, I wouldn't last a minute longer. Living in fear and shame profits a man nothing.

I accepted the lord into my life. He didn't do jack for me. There was lots of time when I was thinking about leaving, contemplating it... Years even. He had plenty of time to show me this 'blinding light' and did nothing. That leads me to conclude that (A) He is powerless to do so, (B) He can do so but chooses not to, or (C) he doesn't exist at all.

He puts many trials in our paths so that we may improve ourselves through overcoming hardship and temptation and prove that we are worthy of ascension into heaven. I have never stopped walking the path, even when I only see one set of footprints.

I only ever saw one set of footprints. Until I found Asatru. When I became a heathen, miraculous things happened in my life. Think what you will, this is a much better fit for me. I'm glad that your god has had such a positive influence on your life, truly you must be one of his chosen. There are many paths.

I did read the "good book"... Full of incest, war, curses, plagues, pagan magic, sex, violence, murder, and torture... Kind of like the much-maligned Hollywood movies.

The Bible does depict sin numerous times, but only to show that such acts are justly punished.

And most films show the same thing. Most of the protagonists in film are complete humans, with all the vice and virtue that comes with it.

And Harry Potter is damn entertaining fantasy... Read: FANTASY.. You know, entertainment, like this evil book is.

If you read about a boy summoning demons to do his bidding, you're not using any magic yourself. If you stand and watch a man murder someone you didn't kill anyone yourself, but does that make you innocent? Fantasy presents these things in a positive light and makes them seem okay. With generation after generation exposed to this message of acceptance, society gradually becomes less moral. Children are the most susceptible, they will act out movies and video games in school with a pretty high casualty rate. 100 years ago, women couldn't show their ankles in public, now nudist colonies are tolerated and television is overrun with sex and nudity. Entertaining fantasy made that possible, a woman in a scandalous short dress used to be pure fantasy, now look at how short they've gotten in real life! How many times do you think mass murder and genocide will have to be depicted as perfectly fine in the media before the laws on them relax?

You're reaching here. Murder and genocide have existed since the dawn of time. It's a part of being human.

Why be ashamed of our bodies? A beautiful woman is a glorious thing. The human body should be honored and venerated, not feared. You believe that your god created them, yes? So why hide from it?

We are far from Godless, though, in fact, we have many more than you.

Many pebbles do not equal a boulder.

I don't believe that your god is any more of a boulder than any of mine. I also know that you can't and won't see things this way. I'm not trying to convince you, just don't call me godless.

I thought it was kind of lame that they focused on that, there were so many great things Jesus did, so many grand adventures they could have made a film out of, I thought focusing on the trial and execution was a bit depressing.

We agree on something, at least.

Fells good, don't it? I'm really not all that bad.

Prove it. You have zero proof. Most scientific theories are far from baseless. Belief in god (Even my own belief in my gods) is baseless. Science is not. That's why it's science.

Science is based on abstract concepts and theories that are supposedly too small to be seen by the eye, or just "invisible". When you take all of these concepts for granted as absolute truth, science makes sense. However, if you look at the most basic concepts with a grain of salt it becomes clear that it's all a case of the masses believing it because it's "common sense" or because someone in glasses and a lab coat said it was true.

I'm not quite sure I believe that the human body is 90% water or that all of the air and water on the earth is trapped by a magic forcefield made of pollution. Don't just start talking about cells and atoms and think it's proof; those are the basic concepts I'm talking about. Science can show you pictures of it but pictures can be faked. It's also worthy of consideration that new science continually disproves old science. How many times does a liar have to tell you "...but this time, I really mean it!" before you discredit them?

Sorry man, I'm siding with the guys with PhD.'s and lab coats on this one.

Go read about the wholesale slaughter of my Heathen ancestors by St. Olaf, and then try to tell me about this "Unified under the love of the one true God" nonsense. Heathens and pagans practiced for centuries in secret all over europe, there was none of this imaginary communal religion you speak of.

I hardly see how the justified execution of dangerous cults to bring Christian civilization to a barbaric land is cause for upset. His methods may have been extreme, but he took the best course of action that he knew of at the time.

So you would condone the slaughter of me and mine so that you can live in your Christian utopia? This man beheaded children. He forced heathen priests to swallow live vipers. He tied their women to shoals in the fjords in Norway to drown when the tide came in. He crushed an entire culture because it didn't compute with his worldview. How can you say that is justified? how is this Christian "love"? You wonder why I want nothing to do with your religion? You talk about murder and genocide being evil when it's simulated in movies, but when it happens in the name of your god you say that it's justified? Please tell me you're not serious! Condoning this behavior is sickening.

There's a great community here, and a lot of them are devout Christians, if you'd like to be a part of it, do yourself a favor and read the forum rules, the tone your taking here won't be tolerated by the moderators. This is a place for civil and polite debate, not rudeness and hate speech.

Yes, I feel like I owe you an apology. I live in a very strongly Christian community and I have a tendency to grow rather impassioned about my beliefs when I feel they are being challenged. I suppose I have been rather hard-headed; I don't think I can convert you through the internet so I just have to let it go.

Apology accepted. The title of the board is Debating Christianity & Religion it's all about challenging one another's beliefs. And through doing so, you may be come a stronger, more well-balanced Christian, just as it helps me to become a stronger and more well balanced Heathen. I quite enjoy the polite discourse. I hope you can too.

[Scotracer]

Prove it. You have zero proof. Most scientific theories are far from baseless. Belief in god (Even my own belief in my gods) is baseless. Science is not. That's why it's science.

Science is based on abstract concepts and theories that are supposedly too small to be seen by the eye, or just "invisible". When you take all of these concepts for granted as absolute truth, science makes sense. However, if you look at the most basic concepts with a grain of salt it becomes clear that it's all a case of the masses believing it because it's "common sense" or because someone in glasses and a lab coat said it was true.

I'm not quite sure I believe that the human body is 90% water or that all of the air and water on the earth is trapped by a magic forcefield made of pollution. Don't just start talking about cells and atoms and think it's proof; those are the basic concepts I'm talking about. Science can show you pictures of it but pictures can be faked. It's also worthy of consideration that new science continually disproves old science. How many times does a liar have to tell you "...but this time, I really mean it!" before you discredit them?

I don't really want to get into a "my god is better than yours" debate since I don't actually have one but as a scientist I'm going to interject here.

Firstly I must ask: what do you think science is for?

Science is the growth and body of knowledge humanity has gotten itself. Do you know why we do that? To better ourselves. That is the purpose - to improve both our understanding of the world we live in and to put that knowledge to use (just remember, without science you wouldn't be using that computer or browsing the internet...at all). Science is not "absolute truth" and has never claimed to be. If science did have the "absolute truth"...well, science would stop! There'd be nothing else to find out. So please, people dedicate their lives to bettering the knowledge of mankind and giving everyone (including you) a better standard of living and more enjoyment out of life.

Now onto your actual post: your first point seems to be either a red herring or pure misunderstanding. What's too small to see? If you are talking about the microscopic level then yes, it is but it is this level that is helping us fight disease and getting pretty damn close to a cure for HIV. Science deals with all the levels of our reality - that's what it is. Purely the analysis of reality as we have it. Nothing more, nothing less. It says nothing about gods or any "moral truth" - it just simply says "Here is reality". And that's that.

This leads me on to your next claim - you are really confusing belief with fact and evidence. You don't just choose to believe that your body is made up of a certain percentage water molecules. You certainly can be wrong. In fact, the human body is roughly 60% water. That does not mean there's big pools of water sloshing around inside you, it means that 60% of all molecules in your body are dihydrogen oxide. That's it. You can't get away from that fact and saying "I don't believe it" doesn't get you away from facts. Just saying something doesn't exist doesn't make it so.

Next we move on to another erroneous claim of yours: "water on the earth is trapped by a magic forcefield made of pollution."

What?

What exactly are you saying here? It makes absolutely no scientific or logical sense. If you are trying, but failing, to describe global warming then please stop. Global warming is the phenomena where certain gases getting into the atmosphere (they are called Greenhouse Gases...these include H20, CO2 and CH4 for example) allow sunlight (radiative heat) to reach the surface but this layer of gases keeps the heat into the earth's atmosphere, heating it up. It's got nothing to do with "magic forcefields". It's a pretty simple mechanism that, frankly, a 10 year old could understand.

Lastly I really must touch this issue as it badly irritates me (as a scientist first and as a human being second):

Science can show you pictures of it but pictures can be faked. It's also worthy of consideration that new science continually disproves old science. How many times does a liar have to tell you "...but this time, I really mean it!" before you discredit them?

You say it like some paranoid conspiracy nut thinking that "science" is out to get them. Science is making your life better. Science made your life what it is today. Also, what use to anyone, would faked images be? How would those help humanity progress? Also, science doesn't usually "disprove itself". It builds upon itself - it refines and continually advances. Occasionally we have to dump old ideas but only because our understanding of the evidence (i.e. science) has gotten better or more evidence has arisen. But that's the thing, science never proclaims "absolute truth". It is always our current understanding and to mock it for that reason is absurd as it's the best we have.

It is mightly disrespectful and hypocritical to slander science in such a way when we all rely so much on it and the people who used the science to aid mankind spent their entire lives doing so, so you wouldn't have to. Without the great men of Einstein, Newton, Lord Kelvin, Darwin and countless others we'd be sitting in caves hitting deer over the head with sticks for dinner.

[TwentyOneSix]

So you would condone the slaughter of me and mine so that you can live in your Christian utopia? This man beheaded children. He forced heathen priests to swallow live vipers. He tied their women to shoals in the fjords in Norway to drown when the tide came in. He crushed an entire culture because it didn't compute with his worldview. How can you say that is justified? how is this Christian "love"? You wonder why I want nothing to do with your religion? You talk about murder and genocide being evil when it's simulated in movies, but when it happens in the name of your god you say that it's justified? Please tell me you're not serious! Condoning this behavior is sickening.

And I fins it sickening to condone books or movies with satanic messages. Like I said; his methods were too extreme but his heart was in the right place. I find it hard to believe that it was that difficult to show people the word of the lord, the violence was completely unnecessary. It was for the sake of uniting an entire nation under Christianity, but I think he could have tried harder to accomplish the same.

Firstly I must ask: what do you think science is for?

Science is a ramshackle explanation for how the world came to be by people who deny the works of the lord.

(just remember, without science you wouldn't be using that computer or browsing the internet...at all)

I've lived my life without a computer, but my wife insists on having one. I only began using the internet recently to see if there's something to the rumors of it being a method of communication and not just a way of corrupting children and trading pornography.

Now onto your actual post: your first point seems to be either a red herring or pure misunderstanding. What's too small to see? If you are talking about the microscopic level then yes, it is but it is this level that is helping us fight disease and getting pretty damn close to a cure for HIV.

All of the nonsense about atoms and molecules and cells and genes; I'm supposed to believe that god didn't create me and all your science can offer in the way of evidence is a lot of gibberish about carbon and such.

What exactly are you saying here? It makes absolutely no scientific or logical sense.

I'm talking about the scientific theory that the Earth is encapsulated in a shell of gas, an "atmosphere", or the "ozone layer" those hippies are always whining about. Apparently you do think it's a magic forcefield, last time I paid any attention to "science" I was told that without this shell there'd be nothing to hold breathable air on the planet.

You say it like some paranoid conspiracy nut thinking that "science" is out to get them.

To call it a conspiracy would be to say that science is intentionally wrong. I look at it more like a small child who has no idea what they're talking about trying to explain something complicated. You don't accept the simple fact that god made this world for you, but when asked how it all came to be the best science can do is ramble on about microscopic particles and explosions and monkeys turning into people.

It is mightly disrespectful and hypocritical to slander science in such a way when we all rely so much on it and the people who used the science to aid mankind spent their entire lives doing so, so you wouldn't have to. Without the great men of Einstein, Newton, Lord Kelvin, Darwin and countless others we'd be sitting in caves hitting deer over the head with sticks for dinner.

Your idea of supporting the credibility of science is to mention Darwin? You must enjoy being insulted if you agree with a satanist cur who honestly believes you used to be a monkey.

[Coyotero]

So you would condone the slaughter of me and mine so that you can live in your Christian utopia? This man beheaded children. He forced heathen priests to swallow live vipers. He tied their women to shoals in the fjords in Norway to drown when the tide came in. He crushed an entire culture because it didn't compute with his worldview. How can you say that is justified? how is this Christian "love"? You wonder why I want nothing to do with your religion? You talk about murder and genocide being evil when it's simulated in movies, but when it happens in the name of your god you say that it's justified? Please tell me you're not serious! Condoning this behavior is sickening.

And I fins it sickening to condone books or movies with satanic messages. Like I said; his methods were too extreme but his heart was in the right place. I find it hard to believe that it was that difficult to show people the word of the lord, the violence was completely unnecessary. It was for the sake of uniting an entire nation under Christianity, but I think he could have tried harder to accomplish the same.

His heart was in the right place?!? He (And many of his constituents) committed acts of unbridled evil in the name of your god of 'love', and you defend him? That man killed children. Children. And it is my sincere hope that if your hell exists he is rotting there. I also hope your Christ would be equally sickened by this kind of activity.

Any God who justifies mass murder on the part of his followers is evil. Plain and simple.

[Scotracer]

Wow.

You don't think there's an atmosphere on our planet? WOW. I think that "statement" alone is enough for me to completely disregard your posts. The atmosphere IS the air you...actually, no I wont resort to ad hominems.

And Darwin a Satanist

If you think it's all a load of gibberish please sell your car, chuck out your phone, throw away your TV, throw away all your medicines, destroy any glasses you might wear, cut off the electricity and gas supplies to your home and go live in a cave. Your opinion is an insult to humanity.

In hindsight, I fear Poe's Law may be applicable here...