The Meaning of 1 John 5:16-17

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slashreborn06
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The Meaning of 1 John 5:16-17

Post #1

Post by slashreborn06 »

1 John 5:16-17 says...
16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.
I came across this verse when reading the book of 1 John. I read it several times trying to make sense of it. I had to do some side research. Apparently it is a verse of which the meaning is widely debated.

Some believe that a sin that leads to death can be explained by the story of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5:1-10
But a certain man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, 2 and kept back some of the price for himself, with his wife’s full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he laid it at the apostles’ feet. 3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit...5 And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came upon all who heard of it . . .7 Now there elapsed an interval of about three hours, and his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 And Peter responded to her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for such and such a price?� And she said, “Yes, that was the price.� 9 Then Peter said to her, “Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they shall carry you out as well.� 10 And she fell immediately at his feet, and breathed her last,
This kind of sheds some light, but I still find the passage hard to understand. John states that there is "a sin that leads to death". It seems like he is talking about one specific sin. If so what is this sin?

He also states a confusing point on praying for those (or not praying) who have committed this sin(s). Why would we not pray for them? Because they are dead right after their sin?

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Post #11

Post by myth-one.com »

slashreborn06 wrote:Three more questions now come to mind

So what "exactly" would fall under blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?

The biblical definition of blasphemy is the crime of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God:
And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee. And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone? (Luke 5:20-21)

Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. (John 10:31-33)

Assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God is exactly what Satan did when he rebelled against God. He attempted to usurp God's authority. God does not wish to grant everlasting life to any who might rebel as Satan -- thus the sin Satan committed becomes the unforgivable sin.
slashreborn06 wrote:Also when it says

"And everyone who speaks against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven."

How can this be when Jesus (the Son of Man) and the Holy Spirit are both the same, God.(assuming you believe in the trinity)
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are referred to as separate beings in the Bible. It is also stated that these three are one. This probably means all three are in agreement as one being as to their plan and goals. That is, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one in agreement and purpose. Thus they are as one being.

The Holy Spirit or Comforter was not sent to Christians until Jesus departed the earth. They are in separate places, not one being. Jesus spoke the following to the apostles shortly after his resurrection:
And being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. (Acts 1:4-5)

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. (John 16:7)
slashreborn06 wrote:lastly what about the promise of salvation. What if one accepts Jesus as lord and savior, gains their salvation, and then let's say years down the line in a fit of rage blasphemes against the holy spirit?
If he/she did it knowing it was a sin, it would be committing the unforgivable sin.

Consider this. If blasphemy is the crime of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God, and believing that one is born with an immortal soul assumes the eternal life quality of God, then are those who believe the immortal soul myth committing blasphemy? It would certainly seem so. However, to commit a sin, one must first recognize that the act is a sin:
To him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. (James 4:17)

For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (Romans 5:13)
So it would not be blasphemous to believe you are immortal like God if you did not realize you were committing blasphemy. You were ignorant of the fact that it was a sin. In fact, religious leaders with doctoral degrees teach the immortal soul myth as truth. So up until this time you have not been committing the unpardonable sin by believing you were born with immortality like God. Until now, you have accepted a misinterpretation as fact. Guess what? Now you know! Oops! :lol:

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slashreborn06
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Post #12

Post by slashreborn06 »

Three more questions now come to mind

So what "exactly" would fall under blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?

Also when it says

"And everyone who speaks against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven."

How can this be when Jesus (the Son of Man) and the Holy Spirit are both the same, God.(assuming you believe in the trinity)

lastly what about the promise of salvation. What if one accepts Jesus as lord and savior, gains their salvation, and then let's say years down the line in a fit of rage blasphemes against the holy spirit?

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Re: The Meaning of 1 John 5:16-17

Post #13

Post by SpiritQuickens »

slashreborn06 wrote:1 John 5:16-17 says...
16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.
I came across this verse when reading the book of 1 John. I read it several times trying to make sense of it. I had to do some side research. Apparently it is a verse of which the meaning is widely debated.

Some believe that a sin that leads to death can be explained by the story of Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5:1-10
But a certain man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, 2 and kept back some of the price for himself, with his wife’s full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he laid it at the apostles’ feet. 3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit...5 And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came upon all who heard of it . . .7 Now there elapsed an interval of about three hours, and his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 And Peter responded to her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for such and such a price?� And she said, “Yes, that was the price.� 9 Then Peter said to her, “Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they shall carry you out as well.� 10 And she fell immediately at his feet, and breathed her last,
This kind of sheds some light, but I still find the passage hard to understand. John states that there is "a sin that leads to death". It seems like he is talking about one specific sin. If so what is this sin?

He also states a confusing point on praying for those (or not praying) who have committed this sin(s). Why would we not pray for them? Because they are dead right after their sin?
While this difficult passage is commonly compared with the Ananias/Sapphira incident, it is unlikely that John has physical death in mind here. (cf. 1 John 1:1, 2, 2:24, 3:14, 15, 16, 5:11, 13). The "death" spoken of here is almost certainly spiritual death, culminating in final, eschatological judgment.

The most likely interpretation of this passage can be inferred from the broader context of the epistle. John is describing to his audience what it means for someone to be born of God, and what characteristics we can expect to find in them. A true believer walks in the light (1 John 1:7), acknowledges their sin (1 John 1:8), confesses their sin (1 John 1:9), loves his brother (1 John 2:9), does not love the world (1 John 2:15), practices righteousness (1 John 3:7), confesses Christ come in the flesh (1 John 4:2), etc. John's emphasis on Christ having come in the flesh in chapter 4 (cf. 1 John 1:1-4- the importance of Christ having been tangible in His incarnation) indicates that the apostate false teachers were probably Gnostic docetists, who denied that Christ had an earthly body, arguing that matter was inferior at best, evil at worst.

The purpose of this ability of discernment is to avoid being deceived (1 John 2:26) by the apostate false teachers who have defected from the community (1 John 2:19). That they left the community proved that they had never actually been part of the community to begin with (1 John 2:19). True believers who remained within the community, did so because they were anointed with the Holy Spirit (1 John 2:20).

It is impossible to lose your salvation. 1 John 2:19 demonstrates this abundantly, especially in its contrast to 1 John 2:20. 1 John 3:6 also tells us that "...no one who keeps on sinning as either seen Him or known Him." The key word is "never." They had never known Him. John says nothing about the possibility of them having known Him in the past, but defected and fallen away entirely (cf. Matt. 7:23). It is also possible that John's frequent contrasts between those who persist in sinning (e.g., 1 John 3:6, 8, 9, 10) refer to apostates, those who defect from the community.

Within the broader context of the New Testament, 1 John 5:16-17 almost certainly refers to apostasy, that is, public renunciation of the faith. John is most likely discouraging prayer for such a person because he is not confident that they can be saved. The Hebrews warning passages are a relevant comparison here (Heb. 6:4-8, 10:26-31).

As others have pointed out in this post, the Synoptic "blasphemy" saying (Matt. 12:32, Mark. 3:29, 30, Luke 12:10) are probably relevant. The Lukan variant is especially relevant. The context of Luke 12:10 occurs within a pericope concerning the necessity of acknowledging Christ before men (Luke 12:8-12). While the Matthew and Mark accounts involve the Pharisees attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to Satan, the Lukan account is probably, like the Hebrews warning passages, and 1 John 5:16-17, identifying the sin as that of apostasy. While the blasphemy saying itself is not explicitly present in Hebrews or John, there seems to be sufficient conceptual overlap to make such an identification, even if cautiously and tentatively. Jesus clearly tells us that there is no other unforgivable sin than blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (Mark 3:28), and the kind of apostasy portrayed in, for example, Heb. 6:4-8, irrevocably puts someone under God's eschatological judgment. That said, Heb. 6:4-8 seems to portray an apostate with a relatively impressive degree of spiritual experience and knowledge. While I would still deny that such an apostate was genuinely saved, the description here does not seem to be of a merely nominal professor.

In light of all this, no one should despair of God's mercy who is genuinely repentant and seeks God's forgiveness. Scripture is very clear about this (John 6:37). Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unpardonable because God's response to this sin is to give a person over to reprobation, which entails hardness of heart and unbelief (cf. Rom. 1:21-28). It's not even possible to repent unless God draws you (John 6:44).

By the way, the reason I specifically identify blasphemy against the Holy Spirit specifically as apostasy via public renunciation of the faith is because of the Greek word translated "blasphemy." Contrary to what another poster has written here, the blasphemy in mind here is NOT arrogating the rights of God to oneself. The word quite literally means to speak in a reviling or abusive manner toward something, precisely what the Pharisees were doing. Here are some notes from Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words:

"&ltC-1,Adjective,989,blasphemos>
"abusive, speaking evil," is translated "blasphemous," in Acts 6:11,13; "a blasphemer," 1 Tim. 1:13; "railers," 2 Tim. 3:2, RV; "railing," 2 Pet. 2:11. See RAIL.

Note: As to Christ's teaching concerning "blasphemy" against the Holy Spirit, e.g., Matt. 12:32, that anyone, with the evidence of the Lord's power before His eyes, should declare it to be Satanic, exhibited a condition of heart beyond Divine illumination and therefore hopeless. Divine forgiveness would be inconsistent with the moral nature of God. As to the Son of Man, in his state of humiliation, there might be misunderstanding, but not so with the Holy Spirit's power demonstrated."


Even Peter denied Christ (Luke 22:54-62), but Jesus had been praying for him (Luke 22:32). Those who wander from the truth, but turn back, cannot have committed the unpardonable sin (James 5:19-20).

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Post #14

Post by SpiritQuickens »

myth-one.com wrote:
slashreborn06 wrote:Three more questions now come to mind

So what "exactly" would fall under blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?

The biblical definition of blasphemy is the crime of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God:
And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee. And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone? (Luke 5:20-21)

Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. (John 10:31-33)

Assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God is exactly what Satan did when he rebelled against God. He attempted to usurp God's authority. God does not wish to grant everlasting life to any who might rebel as Satan -- thus the sin Satan committed becomes the unforgivable sin.
slashreborn06 wrote:Also when it says

"And everyone who speaks against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven."

How can this be when Jesus (the Son of Man) and the Holy Spirit are both the same, God.(assuming you believe in the trinity)
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are referred to as separate beings in the Bible. It is also stated that these three are one. This probably means all three are in agreement as one being as to their plan and goals. That is, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one in agreement and purpose. Thus they are as one being.

The Holy Spirit or Comforter was not sent to Christians until Jesus departed the earth. They are in separate places, not one being. Jesus spoke the following to the apostles shortly after his resurrection:
And being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. (Acts 1:4-5)

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. (John 16:7)
slashreborn06 wrote:lastly what about the promise of salvation. What if one accepts Jesus as lord and savior, gains their salvation, and then let's say years down the line in a fit of rage blasphemes against the holy spirit?
If he/she did it knowing it was a sin, it would be committing the unforgivable sin.

Consider this. If blasphemy is the crime of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God, and believing that one is born with an immortal soul assumes the eternal life quality of God, then are those who believe the immortal soul myth committing blasphemy? It would certainly seem so. However, to commit a sin, one must first recognize that the act is a sin:
To him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. (James 4:17)

For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (Romans 5:13)
So it would not be blasphemous to believe you are immortal like God if you did not realize you were committing blasphemy. You were ignorant of the fact that it was a sin. In fact, religious leaders with doctoral degrees teach the immortal soul myth as truth. So up until this time you have not been committing the unpardonable sin by believing you were born with immortality like God. Until now, you have accepted a misinterpretation as fact. Guess what? Now you know! Oops! :lol:
You are wrong both about the "blasphemy" in mind in the Synoptic Gospels, and your denial of the soul's immortality.

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Post #15

Post by SpiritQuickens »

slashreborn06 wrote:Three more questions now come to mind

So what "exactly" would fall under blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?

Also when it says

"And everyone who speaks against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven."

How can this be when Jesus (the Son of Man) and the Holy Spirit are both the same, God.(assuming you believe in the trinity)

lastly what about the promise of salvation. What if one accepts Jesus as lord and savior, gains their salvation, and then let's say years down the line in a fit of rage blasphemes against the holy spirit?
Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, practically speaking, most likely consists of speaking in an abusive or reviling manner toward the Gospel in full knowledge of the truth, for example, when someone is being convicted of their sin, or has experienced God's goodness to some degree, and then, in full knowledge of the truth, rages against the Triune God.

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is likely unpardonable because it is done in full knowledge of the truth, the Holy Spirit being the means through which men are enlightened, and made aware of the truth (John 16:8). This is likely related to the OT notion of provision for forgiveness being unavailable for willful sinning (Num. 15, cf. Heb. 10:26-31). It's certainly what's being referred to in the Heb. 10:26-31 warning passage, which is itself probably conceptually related to the unpardonable sin, if not identical to it.

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