This thread is to debate/discuss the book The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren.
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The Purpose Driven Life - Rick Warren
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- Cathar1950
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Post #31
And what are these 5 purposes and where does he get them?otseng wrote:If God does not exist, there is no need to love God.Cathar1950 wrote: Of course Loving God and like the first commandment love your neighbor as your self are not just a Christian teaching nor is it the main or only Christian teaching.
The devil is in the detail as well as what it means to love God or love others.
Actually, he claims there are 5 purposes.Rick Warren assumes not only God and the Bible as having the answer but fails to show that there is really one answer or purpose.
If I recall Jesus says love God and the other commandment was like it; Love your neighbor. The point I was trying to make is that there is more to Christianity then the two laws. Well at least with Bible Believing Evangelical Christianity.
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Post #32
Otseng, I didn't say that omnipotence means being able to draw a square circle or a circular square. That would be contrary to the very definitions of circles and squares. By omnipotence I am talking about being able to do supernatural things e.g. resurrect dead people and grow amputated limbs, etc.
I am a strong agnostic regarding the existence of God or Gods and the nature of such God or Gods, just as I am a strong agnostic regarding the ultimate nature of reality. I am a gnostic regarding the apparent nature of reality because I can perceive the apparent reality with my sense organs i.e. eyes, ears, nose, tongue and skin and the processing of such sensations by my brain.
I don't see how it would be possible for me to be a gnostic about the existence and the nature of God or Gods and the ultimate nature of reality without being omniscient. I think this discussion about things we cannot know without first becoming omniscient is futile. I have been thinking about these issues since 1996 and I don't think these issues are resolvable without becoming omniscient. Clearly, I am not omniscient and I don't see how I could become omniscient. Do you understand the predicament?
I am a strong agnostic regarding the existence of God or Gods and the nature of such God or Gods, just as I am a strong agnostic regarding the ultimate nature of reality. I am a gnostic regarding the apparent nature of reality because I can perceive the apparent reality with my sense organs i.e. eyes, ears, nose, tongue and skin and the processing of such sensations by my brain.
I don't see how it would be possible for me to be a gnostic about the existence and the nature of God or Gods and the ultimate nature of reality without being omniscient. I think this discussion about things we cannot know without first becoming omniscient is futile. I have been thinking about these issues since 1996 and I don't think these issues are resolvable without becoming omniscient. Clearly, I am not omniscient and I don't see how I could become omniscient. Do you understand the predicament?
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Post #33
We'll be covering that in the upcoming chapters. Pretty much the rest of the book is about those 5 purposes.Cathar1950 wrote:And what are these 5 purposes and where does he get them?
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Post #34
OK, good. Glad I don't have to get into that argument then.Compassionist wrote:Otseng, I didn't say that omnipotence means being able to draw a square circle or a circular square.
Since I believe that God has the power to create the entire universe, resurrecting people or growing limbs would not be out of the question.By omnipotence I am talking about being able to do supernatural things e.g. resurrect dead people and grow amputated limbs, etc.
So that I can understand where you're coming from, how do you define "strong agnostic"?I am a strong agnostic regarding the existence of God or Gods and the nature of such God or Gods, just as I am a strong agnostic regarding the ultimate nature of reality.
How do you define "gnostic" being used here?I am a gnostic regarding the apparent nature of reality because I can perceive the apparent reality with my sense organs i.e. eyes, ears, nose, tongue and skin and the processing of such sensations by my brain.
And your definition of "omniscient"?I don't see how it would be possible for me to be a gnostic about the existence and the nature of God or Gods and the ultimate nature of reality without being omniscient. I think this discussion about things we cannot know without first becoming omniscient is futile.
I think that's a false dichotomy. Just because you've been thinking about it since 1996 and don't have a solution yet doesn't mean the only other alternative is to be omniscient to be able to have a solution.I have been thinking about these issues since 1996 and I don't think these issues are resolvable without becoming omniscient. Clearly, I am not omniscient and I don't see how I could become omniscient. Do you understand the predicament?
Post #35
What I would like to know is how one Pastor has the knowledge of God's will for the purpose of our lives. Is there anyway to actually prove that these purposes he lists are actually in line with God's will.otseng wrote:OK, good. Glad I don't have to get into that argument then.Compassionist wrote:Otseng, I didn't say that omnipotence means being able to draw a square circle or a circular square.
Since I believe that God has the power to create the entire universe, resurrecting people or growing limbs would not be out of the question.By omnipotence I am talking about being able to do supernatural things e.g. resurrect dead people and grow amputated limbs, etc.
So that I can understand where you're coming from, how do you define "strong agnostic"?I am a strong agnostic regarding the existence of God or Gods and the nature of such God or Gods, just as I am a strong agnostic regarding the ultimate nature of reality.
How do you define "gnostic" being used here?I am a gnostic regarding the apparent nature of reality because I can perceive the apparent reality with my sense organs i.e. eyes, ears, nose, tongue and skin and the processing of such sensations by my brain.
And your definition of "omniscient"?I don't see how it would be possible for me to be a gnostic about the existence and the nature of God or Gods and the ultimate nature of reality without being omniscient. I think this discussion about things we cannot know without first becoming omniscient is futile.
I think that's a false dichotomy. Just because you've been thinking about it since 1996 and don't have a solution yet doesn't mean the only other alternative is to be omniscient to be able to have a solution.I have been thinking about these issues since 1996 and I don't think these issues are resolvable without becoming omniscient. Clearly, I am not omniscient and I don't see how I could become omniscient. Do you understand the predicament?
BTW I had the privelage of meeting Rick Warren and having a brief conversation with him
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Post #36
The purposes that he gives are basic principles from the Bible that are general to people. They are not specific purposes for specific people.winepusher wrote: What I would like to know is how one Pastor has the knowledge of God's will for the purpose of our lives. Is there anyway to actually prove that these purposes he lists are actually in line with God's will.
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Post #37
Day 4: Made to Last Forever
"Life on earth is just the dress rehearsal before the real production... This life is preparation for the next."
Not much disagreement from me in this chapter.
"Life on earth is just the dress rehearsal before the real production... This life is preparation for the next."
Not much disagreement from me in this chapter.
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Post #38
I found it shallow and seems to not take life seriously.otseng wrote:Day 4: Made to Last Forever
"Life on earth is just the dress rehearsal before the real production... This life is preparation for the next."
Not much disagreement from me in this chapter.
It isn't even Biblical unless you are selectively reading some passages and ignoring others.
It hardly looks like a purpose driven life at all.
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Post #39
In that case, why doesn't God heal amputees by regrowing their limbs or resurrect the dead?otseng wrote:OK, good. Glad I don't have to get into that argument then.Compassionist wrote:Otseng, I didn't say that omnipotence means being able to draw a square circle or a circular square.
Since I believe that God has the power to create the entire universe, resurrecting people or growing limbs would not be out of the question.By omnipotence I am talking about being able to do supernatural things e.g. resurrect dead people and grow amputated limbs, etc.
Here is a link about strong agnosticism.otseng wrote:So that I can understand where you're coming from, how do you define "strong agnostic"?I am a strong agnostic regarding the existence of God or Gods and the nature of such God or Gods, just as I am a strong agnostic regarding the ultimate nature of reality.
Gnostic in this context means known via sensory inputs.otseng wrote:How do you define "gnostic" being used here?I am a gnostic regarding the apparent nature of reality because I can perceive the apparent reality with my sense organs i.e. eyes, ears, nose, tongue and skin and the processing of such sensations by my brain.
Knowing everything!otseng wrote:And your definition of "omniscient"?I don't see how it would be possible for me to be a gnostic about the existence and the nature of God or Gods and the ultimate nature of reality without being omniscient. I think this discussion about things we cannot know without first becoming omniscient is futile.
I don't see why this is a false dichotomy. How can I possibly know that it is even possible to be omniscient without first becoming omniscient myself?otseng wrote:I think that's a false dichotomy. Just because you've been thinking about it since 1996 and don't have a solution yet doesn't mean the only other alternative is to be omniscient to be able to have a solution.I have been thinking about these issues since 1996 and I don't think these issues are resolvable without becoming omniscient. Clearly, I am not omniscient and I don't see how I could become omniscient. Do you understand the predicament?
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Post #40
I agree with you Cathar.Cathar1950 wrote:I found it shallow and seems to not take life seriously.otseng wrote:Day 4: Made to Last Forever
"Life on earth is just the dress rehearsal before the real production... This life is preparation for the next."
Not much disagreement from me in this chapter.
It isn't even Biblical unless you are selectively reading some passages and ignoring others.
It hardly looks like a purpose driven life at all.