A world without Religion

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BOgg
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A world without Religion

Post #1

Post by BOgg »

Imagine the banishment of all religions in humanity, what and where would humanity go from there? Would Corporatism become our new God, could Science truly give us hope and morals? Just a thought, what could happen if tomorrow no religions, no spiritual guidance, no form whatsoever of preaching would be allowed about any subject possible? What would the world be like? (I am completely neutral about this.)

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Post #41

Post by JoeyKnothead »

joeyknuccione wrote:From Post 35:
Benoni wrote:
Flail wrote: How do you discern God's purpose? If from a book, how do you determine which Holy Book , from which God or whether the author was accurate? If directly from a God to you, please report precisely what was said with quotation marks and whether there were any witnesses that overheard the communication.
It would not matter what I say to you so why are you asking?
So we can determine the veracity of your claims.

It usually goes without saying, but in debate we are essentially trying to show folks we speak truth. In this regard then it is common knowledge that upon challenge of claims, one of the best ways to show one speaks truth, is to present evidence for their assertions.

Can you present such evidence, or do you a priori seek to declare your evidence won't be accepted? This is a bit of a slanderous angle, in that you imply folks are unwilling to accept what evidence you may present - all the while not presenting any. How is it even possible to reject evidence one has yet to present?

You made claims. You got challenged.

Are you willing to support your claims?

Are you willing to retract claims for which you can't offer support?

Now, as to the claims, I'll break them down for further analysis...
Benoni, back in Post 32 wrote: This is God's purpose in the end.
Can you offer verifiable evidence for:

1- God exists (thoroughness of investigation and all that).
2- God has a "purpose".

I'll leave the referned material regarding what constitutes such "purpose" for after we establish the truthfulness of the above.
I see Benoni has made further comment within this thread that doesn't directly address these claims, so let's call this...

3rd challenge.

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Re: A world without Religion

Post #42

Post by Benoni »

Zzyzx wrote:.
Benoni wrote:
McCulloch wrote:You have made a claim to know God's purpose. We would like to know how you arrived at such a conclusion.
I am sure you would but this is the wrong format and forum.
I have started another thread "What is god's purpose?" in which you can expound upon your position in the proper format and forum -- and challenge you to attempt to do so.

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 888#302888
I do not debate non believers it is a waste of our time.

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Re: A world without Religion

Post #43

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Benoni wrote: I do not debate non believers it is a waste of our time.
I read...

"I don't debate on a debate site."

"I don't have evidence to convince non-believers, so I just claim whatever I want, and to heck with forum rules."

"I have no way of proving anything I say, and refuse to address those who challenge me to show I speak truth."

"Who cares, as long as I can get on with my preaching."

"Hey, a bunny..."

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Re: A world without Religion

Post #44

Post by Zzyzx »

Benoni wrote:
Zzyzx wrote:.
Benoni wrote:
McCulloch wrote:You have made a claim to know God's purpose. We would like to know how you arrived at such a conclusion.
I am sure you would but this is the wrong format and forum.
I have started another thread "What is god's purpose?" in which you can expound upon your position in the proper format and forum -- and challenge you to attempt to do so.

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 888#302888
I do not debate non believers it is a waste of our time.
Perhaps you do not understand that this is a debate site that welcomes people of all persuasions, beliefs and convictions. Those who are unwilling to debate non-believers are not qualified to debate -- period -- and are encouraged to preach to one another in Holy Huddle to avoid trashing C&A sub-forum.

I can understand that some believers might hesitate to attempt to debate non-believers. Their bible tales cannot be supported, so only those who already believe will be convinced that they speak truth -- with no evidence other than the bible tales themselves (used to support themselves), plus conjecture, opinion and dogma.


Edited to add: If I was a theist and realized that I could not defend bible tales and claims, I would NOT MAKE SUCH CLAIMS -- particularly on a DEBATE site. I have enough self respect and respect for others to avoid trashing debate threads with trivia if I have no intention of debating.
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ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

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Re: A world without Religion

Post #45

Post by Benoni »

Zzyzx wrote:
Benoni wrote:
Zzyzx wrote:.
Benoni wrote:
McCulloch wrote:You have made a claim to know God's purpose. We would like to know how you arrived at such a conclusion.
I am sure you would but this is the wrong format and forum.
I have started another thread "What is god's purpose?" in which you can expound upon your position in the proper format and forum -- and challenge you to attempt to do so.

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 888#302888
I do not debate non believers it is a waste of our time.
Perhaps you do not understand that this is a debate site that welcomes people of all persuasions, beliefs and convictions. Those who are unwilling to debate non-believers are not qualified to debate -- period -- and are encouraged to preach to one another in Holy Huddle to avoid trashing C&A sub-forum.

I can understand that some believers might hesitate to attempt to debate non-believers. Their bible tales cannot be supported, so only those who already believe will be convinced that they speak truth -- with no evidence other than the bible tales themselves (used to support themselves), plus conjecture, opinion and dogma.


Edited to add: If I was a theist and realized that I could not defend bible tales and claims, I would NOT MAKE SUCH CLAIMS -- particularly on a DEBATE site. I have enough self respect and respect for others to avoid trashing debate threads with trivia if I have no intention of debating.
There is no reason to debate here; my belief is based on sciripture to which I cannot use as a valid source in this thread; so what is the point. Phyiscal evidence works great for worldly things; but when it comes to the divine it is not relevant. So what is the use in debating? I enjoy coming here to post; but there comes a time where it is just a waist of time.

I am on your side; I understand God has not called you so you cannot hear or see anything spiritual; you can blame that on the God you reject.

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Re: A world without Religion

Post #46

Post by Zzyzx »

.
Benoni wrote:There is no reason to debate here;
They why do you conduct the façade of debating when you cannot?

Those who depend upon “scripture� to make their “argument� are welcomed in Holy Huddle. Here, in C&A, we do NOT assume that “scripture� is authoritative – but argue based on reasoning and information from many sources.
Benoni wrote:my belief is based on sciripture to which I cannot use as a valid source in this thread; so what is the point.
Exactly. If you go to Holy Huddle or Theology, Doctrine and Dogma sub-forums your unverified statements or “scriptural� quotations will be accepted. But they are NOT here in C&A. You are simply in the wrong sub-forum.
Benoni wrote:Phyiscal evidence works great for worldly things; but when it comes to the divine it is not relevant.
Since you cannot show that “the divine� exists, that statement is meaningless.
Benoni wrote:So what is the use in debating?
Some of us debate for the purpose of exchanging ideas. Those who claim to KNOW THE ULTIMATE TRUTH cannot participate because they regard themselves as superior to “mere mortals� who do not worship their favorite “god� (and thus know the TRUTH as they do).
Benoni wrote:I enjoy coming here to post; but there comes a time where it is just a waist of time.
Yes, it is a “waist� / waste of time to preach in a DEBATE forum. It is also contrary to rules and guidelines (which honorable debaters follow as agreed when they joined).
Benoni wrote:I am on your side; I understand God has not called you so you cannot hear or see anything spiritual; you can blame that on the God you reject.
I do not “blame� any theoretical “god� – but take full responsibility myself for deciding that no “god� or any “representatives of god� has/have presented me with any reason to accept that the “god� is real or that “he� influences human lives or “afterlives�.
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Re: A world without Religion

Post #47

Post by Benoni »

Zzyzx wrote:.
Benoni wrote:There is no reason to debate here;
They why do you conduct the façade of debating when you cannot?

Those who depend upon “scripture� to make their “argument� are welcomed in Holy Huddle. Here, in C&A, we do NOT assume that “scripture� is authoritative – but argue based on reasoning and information from many sources.
Benoni wrote:my belief is based on sciripture to which I cannot use as a valid source in this thread; so what is the point.
Exactly. If you go to Holy Huddle or Theology, Doctrine and Dogma sub-forums your unverified statements or “scriptural� quotations will be accepted. But they are NOT here in C&A. You are simply in the wrong sub-forum.
Benoni wrote:Phyiscal evidence works great for worldly things; but when it comes to the divine it is not relevant.
Since you cannot show that “the divine� exists, that statement is meaningless.
Benoni wrote:So what is the use in debating?
Some of us debate for the purpose of exchanging ideas. Those who claim to KNOW THE ULTIMATE TRUTH cannot participate because they regard themselves as superior to “mere mortals� who do not worship their favorite “god� (and thus know the TRUTH as they do).
Benoni wrote:I enjoy coming here to post; but there comes a time where it is just a waist of time.
Yes, it is a “waist� / waste of time to preach in a DEBATE forum. It is also contrary to rules and guidelines (which honorable debaters follow as agreed when they joined).
Benoni wrote:I am on your side; I understand God has not called you so you cannot hear or see anything spiritual; you can blame that on the God you reject.
I do not “blame� any theoretical “god� – but take full responsibility myself for deciding that no “god� or any “representatives of god� has/have presented me with any reason to accept that the “god� is real or that “he� influences human lives or “afterlives�.
This is what I am talking about.

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Re: A world without Religion

Post #48

Post by Zzyzx »

.
Benoni wrote:This is what I am talking about.
Is there a topic that you feel qualified to debate against someone who does not share your beliefs? Can you, for instance, defend the "resurrection" as a literally true event that occurred in the real world? Or can you show that any of the Christian "miracle" stories are truthful accounts of events that actually happened in the real world?

If not, what are you doing at a debate site promoting god theories that you cannot defend in debate?
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Re: A world without Religion

Post #49

Post by Benoni »

Zzyzx wrote:.
Benoni wrote:This is what I am talking about.
Is there a topic that you feel qualified to debate against someone who does not share your beliefs? Can you, for instance, defend the "resurrection" as a literally true event that occurred in the real world? Or can you show that any of the Christian "miracle" stories are truthful accounts of events that actually happened in the real world?

If not, what are you doing at a debate site promoting god theories that you cannot defend in debate?
Why would I care to try. You do not believe in God. Praise God. His ways are not of this world; its human logic, intellect and reason. You are not on the same sheet of music with that which is spiritual. So go ahead believe you logic; you will never see or hear God with this human approach.

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Post #50

Post by JoeyKnothead »

joeyknuccione wrote:
joeyknuccione wrote:From Post 35:
Benoni wrote:
Flail wrote: How do you discern God's purpose? If from a book, how do you determine which Holy Book , from which God or whether the author was accurate? If directly from a God to you, please report precisely what was said with quotation marks and whether there were any witnesses that overheard the communication.
It would not matter what I say to you so why are you asking?
So we can determine the veracity of your claims.

It usually goes without saying, but in debate we are essentially trying to show folks we speak truth. In this regard then it is common knowledge that upon challenge of claims, one of the best ways to show one speaks truth, is to present evidence for their assertions.

Can you present such evidence, or do you a priori seek to declare your evidence won't be accepted? This is a bit of a slanderous angle, in that you imply folks are unwilling to accept what evidence you may present - all the while not presenting any. How is it even possible to reject evidence one has yet to present?

You made claims. You got challenged.

Are you willing to support your claims?

Are you willing to retract claims for which you can't offer support?

Now, as to the claims, I'll break them down for further analysis...
Benoni, back in Post 32 wrote: This is God's purpose in the end.
Can you offer verifiable evidence for:

1- God exists (thoroughness of investigation and all that).
2- God has a "purpose".

I'll leave the referned material regarding what constitutes such "purpose" for after we establish the truthfulness of the above.
I see Benoni has made further comment within this thread that doesn't directly address these claims, so let's call this...

3rd challenge.
1. As I type I am NOT on Benoni's "ignore" deal there.
2. It can be reasonably considered, given the lengths of these posts, that Benoni would see them as he moves down the page to respond to other posts.
3. Yet no response?

4th challenge.

I'm curious to know how long Benoni will...

continue to avoid responsibility for his claims.

I will continue to count up these challenges until the universe runs out of numbers, I run out of fingers and toes, the claimant responds with something other than a refusal to support / retract, or the claimant is sanctioned.

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