Questions For Atheists

[The Mad Haranguer]

What is ironic about atheists’ demand for evidence is that there is not one shred of evidence indicating that the material universe is anything but a shadow of the Real. I can show you, atheists, evidence of a reality beyond all determination. Were is your evidence that matter-energy is the bottom line? Why is it human to limit our response to being, to the Great Unknown, by making the outside the only inside? Why is it delusion to make the inside part of the outside?

Accurate beliefs and objective facts are no doubt crucial to survival. Perhaps belief in God aids in survival, a delusion caused by our biology and psychological needs. But if this is so, atheism is an aberration or mutation of some kind. So, how do the mutants know whether it is believers in the Divine or themselves that are deluded? If the question of truth is determined by its survival-value, we’ll just have to wait. But if truth is something other than success, if it is an intrinsic value that cannot be measured by its conduciveness to survival, then the determination of truth takes place above and beyond the physical.

Down through the ages, philosophers, prophets and sages have been telling us that that the real world exists in and of itself and that we are wrong to believe in the ultimate reality of what our senses tell us, that to know the reality of Being it is necessary to perceive it with more than the intellect alone. It must be felt. To know with the intellect alone is to know about things, but not being itself where meaning resides. Are they delusional? Where is your evidence, atheists? If you cannot so much as present evidence that the material universe is the Real, on what basis do you question the philosophers, prophets and sages?

[McCulloch]

We know that the material world does exist. Anything beyond that is mere speculation. Yet, theists have for time immemorial, have been presenting their speculations about this other realm as being facts. There just might be a spiritual realm, a place that is not a place, a time without time. What do we know about this place? What do we know about its inhabitants? nothing.

[The Mad Haranguer]

We know that the material world does exist. Anything beyond that is mere speculation. Yet, theists have for time immemorial, have been presenting their speculations about this other realm as being facts. There just might be a spiritual realm, a place that is not a place, a time without time. What do we know about this place? What do we know about its inhabitants? nothing.

I did not say that the material order does not exist.

I'm asking for evidence that it is the bottom line; evidence that what the philosophers, prophets and sages taught throughout the ages are mere speculations.

[ChaosBorders]

We know that the material world does exist. Anything beyond that is mere speculation. Yet, theists have for time immemorial, have been presenting their speculations about this other realm as being facts. There just might be a spiritual realm, a place that is not a place, a time without time. What do we know about this place? What do we know about its inhabitants? nothing.

I did not say that the material order does not exist.

I'm asking for evidence that it is the bottom line; evidence that what the philosophers, prophets and sages taught throughout the ages are mere speculations.

Very few non-theists make the claim that it definitively IS the bottom line. It is simply the bottom of the lines we can accurately claim anything about, and they do not see a point in believing in lines speculated below that.

[JoeyKnothead]

What is ironic about atheists’ demand for evidence is that there is not one shred of evidence indicating that the material universe is anything but a shadow of the Real. I can show you, atheists, evidence of a reality beyond all determination. Were is your evidence that matter-energy is the bottom line? Why is it human to limit our response to being, to the Great Unknown, by making the outside the only inside? Why is it delusion to make the inside part of the outside?

Accurate beliefs and objective facts are no doubt crucial to survival. Perhaps belief in God aids in survival, a delusion caused by our biology and psychological needs. But if this is so, atheism is an aberration or mutation of some kind. So, how do the mutants know whether it is believers in the Divine or themselves that are deluded? If the question of truth is determined by its survival-value, we’ll just have to wait. But if truth is something other than success, if it is an intrinsic value that cannot be measured by its conduciveness to survival, then the determination of truth takes place above and beyond the physical.

Down through the ages, philosophers, prophets and sages have been telling us that that the real world exists in and of itself and that we are wrong to believe in the ultimate reality of what our senses tell us, that to know the reality of Being it is necessary to perceive it with more than the intellect alone. It must be felt. To know with the intellect alone is to know about things, but not being itself where meaning resides. Are they delusional? Where is your evidence, atheists? If you cannot so much as present evidence that the material universe is the Real, on what basis do you question the philosophers, prophets and sages?

I propose you place this OP in the "Questions for Philosophers" section.

Atheism is a lack of belief in a god or gods.

[McCulloch]

I'm asking for evidence that it is the bottom line; evidence that what the philosophers, prophets and sages taught throughout the ages are mere speculations.

That which is promoted as being true, based on faith rather than evidence is speculation.

Angels, demons, gods, God, Satan, djin, ghosts, fairies, archangels, heaven, hell, Valhalla, the Garden of Eden, talking serpents, six days of creation, giants, the flood, God's avenging fire, the Fates, the spirit world, telepathy, astrology, magic, potions, prayer, atonement, redemption, transubstantiation, spells, exorcism, winged horses, ritual sacrifice ...

Got any evidence that any of it is more real than the others?

[Goat]

I'm asking for evidence that it is the bottom line; evidence that what the philosophers, prophets and sages taught throughout the ages are mere speculations.

That which is promoted as being true, based on faith rather than evidence is speculation.

Angels, demons, gods, God, Satan, djin, ghosts, fairies, archangels, heaven, hell, Valhalla, the Garden of Eden, talking serpents, six days of creation, giants, the flood, God's avenging fire, the Fates, the spirit world, telepathy, astrology, magic, potions, prayer, atonement, redemption, transubstantiation, spells, exorcism, winged horses, ritual sacrifice ...

Got any evidence that any of it is more real than the others?

Prayer and ritual sacrifice exist. People do them all the time. Are they effective??? That is a different matter.

[The Mad Haranguer]

That which is promoted as being true, based on faith rather than evidence is speculation.

Angels, demons, gods, God, Satan, djin, ghosts, fairies, archangels, heaven, hell, Valhalla, the Garden of Eden, talking serpents, six days of creation, giants, the flood, God's avenging fire, the Fates, the spirit world, telepathy, astrology, magic, potions, prayer, atonement, redemption, transubstantiation, spells, exorcism, winged horses, ritual sacrifice ...Got any evidence that any of it is more real than the others?

Prayer and ritual sacrifice exist. People do them all the time. Are they effective??? That is a different matter.

We know that the material world does exist. Anything beyond that is mere speculation. Yet, theists have for time immemorial, have been presenting their speculations about this other realm as being facts. There just might be a spiritual realm, a place that is not a place, a time without time. What do we know about this place? What do we know about its inhabitants? nothing.

I did not say that the material order does not exist.

I'm asking for evidence that it is the bottom line; evidence that what the philosophers, prophets and sages taught throughout the ages are mere speculations.

Very few non-theists make the claim that it definitively IS the bottom line. It is simply the bottom of the lines we can accurately claim anything about, and they do not see a point in believing in lines speculated below that.

"...to know the reality of Being it is necessary to perceive it with more than the intellect alone."

[The Mad Haranguer]

What is ironic about atheists’ demand for evidence is that there is not one shred of evidence indicating that the material universe is anything but a shadow of the Real. I can show you, atheists, evidence of a reality beyond all determination. Were is your evidence that matter-energy is the bottom line? Why is it human to limit our response to being, to the Great Unknown, by making the outside the only inside? Why is it delusion to make the inside part of the outside?

Accurate beliefs and objective facts are no doubt crucial to survival. Perhaps belief in God aids in survival, a delusion caused by our biology and psychological needs. But if this is so, atheism is an aberration or mutation of some kind. So, how do the mutants know whether it is believers in the Divine or themselves that are deluded? If the question of truth is determined by its survival-value, we’ll just have to wait. But if truth is something other than success, if it is an intrinsic value that cannot be measured by its conduciveness to survival, then the determination of truth takes place above and beyond the physical.

Down through the ages, philosophers, prophets and sages have been telling us that that the real world exists in and of itself and that we are wrong to believe in the ultimate reality of what our senses tell us, that to know the reality of Being it is necessary to perceive it with more than the intellect alone. It must be felt. To know with the intellect alone is to know about things, but not being itself where meaning resides. Are they delusional? Where is your evidence, atheists? If you cannot so much as present evidence that the material universe is the Real, on what basis do you question the philosophers, prophets and sages?

I propose you place this OP in the "Questions for Philosophers" section.

Atheism is a lack of belief in a god or gods.

I'm looking for evidence that matter-energy is the bottom line. I don't care what you don't believe.
I WANT EVIDENCE!

[Ooberman]

I'm looking for evidence that matter-energy is the bottom line. I don't care what you don't believe.
I WANT EVIDENCE!

Matter-energy-space-time.

What else is there? I can't think of anything. Care to suggest something?

I would think the existence of Matter-energy-space-time would be evidence of M-E-S-T.... but, hey, I'm no high-falootin' philosopher.

As for it being all there is? I don't know. Could be, but why would there be?