If You Don't Believe Quran is the Word of God

[Mirac]

Today science reveals many miracles that no one knew 14 centuries ago. Implications stated in Quran when people thought the earth had the shape of a tray prove that it was written by god. There are many evidence enough to write a book but I am giving you a few.

1. The Two Seas That Don't Merge

A French oceanographer, J. Cousteau noticed that the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean did not merge in the strait of Gibraltar. An incredible barrier prevented the two seas from coming together as stated in Quran.

"He has let free the two seas meeting together. Between them there is a barrier which they do not transgress."

(55-Gracious, 19-20)

This is because of a physical characteristic called “surface tension.� Thus, neighboring seas present different densities, salinity rates and compositions. Water, that usually mixes easily, can turn into a wall and it is not affected by strong waves and currents.

"He is the One who has set free the two seas; one is sweet and palatable, and the other is salty and bitter. And He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed."
(25-The Distinquisher, 53)

2. Orbits of Astronomical Objects

In 17th century Galileo Galilei discovered that planets orbited sun.

"It is He who created the night and the day, and the sun, and the moon; each of them floating in an orbit."

(21-The Prophets, 33)

"By the Sky with its ingeniously devised paths (orbits)."
(51-The Dispersing, 7)

3. Landing on the Moon and its Date

"And the Moon when it is full. You will surely ride from stage to stage. So, why do they not believe?"
(84-The Splitting, 18-20)

"The Hour has come closer and the moon has split."
(54-The Moon, 1)

The number of verses to be counted from this verse to the end of the Quran is 1389. The year 1389 in the Muslim calendar corresponds to the year 1969 in the Gregorian calendar, and the year 1969 was the year when man set foot on the moon for the first time.

4. The Land-Sea Ratio

Word --- Number of occurrence in Quran ---- The Ratio
Sea --------------------- 32 --------------------- 32/45=71.111
Land -------------------- 13 --------------------- 13/45=28.888

The ratio of seas to earth: %71
The ratio of lands to earth: %29

5. Geoidal Form of Earth

Quran explains that the shape of earth is not like a tray or a sphere but geoidal by resembling it to an ostrich's egg. The word “dahw� in the verse below means rotundity like that of the ostrich’s egg.

"He made the earth egg-shaped."

(79-The Snatchers, 30)

6. Only Female Bees Work

In recent decades, it was understood that only female bees build hives, collect nectar and make honey.

"And your Lord revealed the female honeybee; build homes in mountains, and trees, and in the hives people built for you. Then, eat of all fruits, and follow the ways of your Lord made easy (for you). There comes forth from their bellies, a drink of varying colour wherein is healing for men. Verily, in this is indeed a sign for people who think."

(16-The Honeybee, 68-69)

7. Pulsars

Pulsars are highly magnetized, rotating neutron stars that emit a beam of electromagnetic radiation. The radiation can only be observed when the beam of emission is pointing towards the Earth. This is called the lighthouse effect and gives rise to the pulsed nature that gives pulsars their name. The first pulsar was observed on November 28, 1967 (from wikipedia)

"By the heavens and The Knocker. How will you comprehend what the The Knocker is? It’s a piercing star."
(86-The Knocker, 1-3)

8. Unique Fingertips

In 1856, Genn Ginsen found out that the pattern of lines at the tip of a person’s finger was something unique to the individual. Until 1856, men knew nothing about this characteristic of fingertips.

"Does the human being think that We cannot assemble his bones? Surely, We are able to reconstruct even his fingertips."

(75-The Resurrection, 3-4)

9. Big Bang, Gaseous Stage and Expansion of Universe

The Big Bang was the event which led to the formation of the universe, according to the prevailing cosmological theory of the universe's early development (known as the Big Bang theory or Big Bang model). According to the Big Bang model, the universe, originally in an extremely hot and dense state that expanded rapidly, has since cooled by expanding to the present diluted state, and continues to expand today. Over a long period of time, the slightly denser regions of the nearly uniformly distributed matter gravitationally attracted nearby matter and thus grew even denser, forming gas clouds, stars, galaxies, and the other astronomical structures observable today. (from wikipedia)

"Do not these disbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were an integrated mass, which We then split, and from water We made all living things? Will they not believe even then?"

(21-The Prophets, 30)

"Then He turned to the heavens, and it was in a gaseous state. And said to it, and the earth; “Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly.� They said, “We come willingly.� "

(41-Elucidated, 11)

"With power did We construct firmament. Verily, We are expanding it."

(51-The Dispersing, 47)

10. The Atom and its Particles

"Not even an atom’s weight in the heavens and the earth, or something smaller or greater than it is hidden from Him, but all are in a clear record."

(34-Sheba, 3)

[B-O-H]

The Koran was written by an uneducated, illiterate pirate, false prophet. In it, he claims to know for a fact that Jesus not only lied about who he was (the son of God) but that he also decieved people into believing he conquered death. i.e. It was all smoke and mirrors.

Muhammad was a lying, thieving, slave-raping, murdering, pedophile. His Koran is an abomination of God. Muhammad is in the Bible. He is mentioned in Revelations as the false prophet and the antichrist, who's new dwelling is in the Lake of Fire. All of Islam is covering up for all his attrocities for one reason or another.

[Kuan]

The Koran was written by an uneducated, illiterate pirate, false prophet. In it, he claims to know for a fact that Jesus not only lied about who he was (the son of God) but that he also decieved people into believing he conquered death. i.e. It was all smoke and mirrors.

Muhammad was a lying, thieving, slave-raping, murdering, pedophile. His Koran is an abomination of God. Muhammad is in the Bible. He is mentioned in Revelations as the false prophet and the antichrist, who's new dwelling is in the Lake of Fire. All of Islam is covering up for all his attrocities for one reason or another.

Care to provide any evidence at all for these remarks?

If he was uneducated and illiterate, than wouldn't the fact that he got the stuff such as the two seas right a miracle?

Also, could you provide any evidence that the bible is the word of god?

[Darias]

The Koran was written by an uneducated, illiterate pirate, false prophet. In it, he claims to know for a fact that Jesus not only lied about who he was (the son of God) but that he also decieved people into believing he conquered death. i.e. It was all smoke and mirrors.

Muhammad was a lying, thieving, slave-raping, murdering, pedophile. His Koran is an abomination of God. Muhammad is in the Bible. He is mentioned in Revelations as the false prophet and the antichrist, who's new dwelling is in the Lake of Fire. All of Islam is covering up for all his attrocities for one reason or another.

Care to provide any evidence at all for these remarks?

If he was uneducated and illiterate, than wouldn't the fact that he got the stuff such as the two seas right a miracle?

Also, could you provide any evidence that the bible is the word of god?

Well it is a fact that Muhammad, (PBUH) was illiterate. He could neither read nor write. His teachings were recorded and later assembled together. The Qur'an reads more like a narrative than the Bible -- which is an assemblence of books spanning thousands of years.

What Mirac seems to be doing is very similar to what a fundamentalist Christian would do. Pick random verses that look like they sound scientific, and try to see if they match up with modern science.

Of course, I would expect the Qur'an to be more scientific than the Bible, as it was written several hundred years after the Bible was completed.

However, the fact that scientific common sense exists in the Qur'an and in the Bible does not prove anything. The belief that they are the Words of God is unprovable -- but a belief nonetheless.

This action of retrofitting scriptures with modern interpretation and understanding is something I find to be dangerous (speaking of my own faith as well).

For example, I've heard of a version of the Qur'an -- well at least a teaching (which I don't believe is prevalent) that inserts Modern day interpretations into the text. Read this comment on Jihad:

Today’s Horses

Both the Qur’an and the Sunnah stress the virtue and significance of horses, keeping and raising them in the cause of Allah, and preparing them for jihad, to the extent that when dividing the spoils of war, the Prophet used to give one share to the infantryman and three shares to the cavalryman—one for him and two for his horse! That was because horses were the military vehicles then, which is not the case today, when things have changed and horses have become no longer significant in fighting except limitedly in certain areas. Thus, we can say that today’s horses are the tanks, armored vehicles, and suchlike military weapons used in wars today. Those who perfect using them are the cavalry of our age.

Accordingly, all the virtues and rewards attributed to horses in the Qur’an and the Sunnah are equally attributed to today’s horses and military vehicles.
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SOURCE

The above intepretation has lead to alterations of the Qur'an, passages which originally spoke of past conflicts:

60. And make ready against them all you can of power, including steeds of war (tanks, planes, missiles, artillery, etc.) to threaten the enemy of Allâh and your enemy, and others besides whom, you may not know but whom Allâh does know. And whatever you shall spend in the Cause of Allâh shall be repaid unto you, and you shall not be treated unjustly.
_____
SOURCE

I am not certain what version of the Qur'an this is; if Murad or someone who knows more about such altered versions could tell me it would be great.

Stuff like that -- changing the original meaning of the scriptures -- especially to promote violence, really upsets me.

This passage should say something like this instead:

008.056
YUSUFALI: They are those with whom thou didst make a covenant, but they break their covenant every time, and they have not the fear (of Allah).
PICKTHAL: Those of them with whom thou madest a treaty, and then at every opportunity they break their treaty, and they keep not duty (to Allah).
SHAKIR: Those with whom you make an agreement, then they break their agreement every time and they do not guard (against punishment).

008.057
YUSUFALI: If ye gain the mastery over them in war, disperse, with them, those who follow them, that they may remember.
PICKTHAL: If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember.
SHAKIR: Therefore if you overtake them in fighting, then scatter by (making an example of) them those who are in their rear, that they may be mindful.

008.058
YUSUFALI: If thou fearest treachery from any group, throw back (their covenant) to them, (so as to be) on equal terms: for Allah loveth not the treacherous.
PICKTHAL: And if thou fearest treachery from any folk, then throw back to them (their treaty) fairly. Lo! Allah loveth not the treacherous.
SHAKIR: And if you fear treachery on the part of a people, then throw back to them on terms of equality; surely Allah does not love the treacherous.

008.059
YUSUFALI: Let not the unbelievers think that they can get the better (of the godly): they will never frustrate (them).
PICKTHAL: And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape.
SHAKIR: And let not those who disbelieve think that they shall come in first; surely they will not escape.

008.060
YUSUFALI: Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.
PICKTHAL: Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others beside them whom ye know not. Allah knoweth them. Whatsoever ye spend in the way of Allah it will be repaid to you in full, and ye will not be wronged.
SHAKIR: And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly.
_____
SOURCE

Clearly that passage was talking about a past conflict -- something that has nothing to do with the present.


In part, popular Christian movies like "Left Behind" help spread a false teaching that makes the anti-Christ to be some sort of European. This is why a number of Fundamentalists are opposed to peace in Israel, because the Bible says something about a 7 year peace in Revelation, established by the anti-Christ. For my co-coreligionists, this refers to something in the future, not the past -- not Nero (the anti-Christ to which John referred).

So they are convinced that a peace with Palestine would mean that the anti-Christ is here and that Armageddon is upon us. They certainly do not want to be allies of the anti-Christ when Jesus returns -- and thus a number of Christian fundamentalists ignore Palestinians and their right of self-determination.

This apocalyptic thinking --retrofitting of modern circumstance and understanding to ancient texts and cultures -- is ignorant and wrong.


It is also used with Nostradamus.

NOSTRADAMUS QUATRAIN #2 - 24

Wildmen ferocious with anger, crosssover rivers,

Bestes farouches de faim fleuves tranner,

The greater part of the battlefield will be against Hitler;

Plus part du champ encontre Hister sera;

In armor of steel they will make the great assault,

En cage de fer le grand fera treisner,

When the child of Germany will heed no one.

Quand rien enfant de Germain observera.
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SOURCE

Of course, that translation is deceptive. Hister is latin for river.


Wikipedia gets this straight:

In modern English the term is most commonly encountered in its use by Nostradamus, especially in a phrase at quatrain II.24 commonly translated "most of the battle (or armies) will be against Hister":

Bestes farouches de faim fluves tranner:
Plus part du camp encontre Hister sera,
En caige de fer le grand fera treisner,
Quand Rin enfant Germain observera.

[Nostradamus, Les Propheties, first printing 1555][1]

or, in English:

Beasts wild with hunger shall cross the rivers:
Most of the fighting shall be close by the Hister [Danube],
It shall result in the great one being dragged in an iron cage,
While the German shall be watching over the infant Rhine.

This is often interpreted to be a prediction of the war against Adolf Hitler's Nazi state in the twentieth century. However, none of the reputable sources listed support this view.
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SOURCE

Let this be a lesson that modern interpretations of ancient prophesy/scripture do nothing to prove anything for anyone. . .

At Best, they are deceptive -- at Worst, dangerous.

[B-O-H]

The Koran was written by an uneducated, illiterate pirate, false prophet. In it, he claims to know for a fact that Jesus not only lied about who he was (the son of God) but that he also decieved people into believing he conquered death. i.e. It was all smoke and mirrors.

Muhammad was a lying, thieving, slave-raping, murdering, pedophile. His Koran is an abomination of God. Muhammad is in the Bible. He is mentioned in Revelations as the false prophet and the antichrist, who's new dwelling is in the Lake of Fire. All of Islam is covering up for all his attrocities for one reason or another.

Care to provide any evidence at all for these remarks?

If he was uneducated and illiterate, than wouldn't the fact that he got the stuff such as the two seas right a miracle?

Also, could you provide any evidence that the bible is the word of god?

tHE nt IS 4 BOOKS WRITTEN BY, AND BASED ON 1000's OF EYE WITNESS ACCOUNTS TO THE HAPPENINGS AND TEACHINGS OF jESUS cHRIST. tHE kORAN WAS WRITTEN BY DICTATION BY AN ILLITERATE, UNEDUCATED LYING, THIEVING, SLAVE-TRADING, SLAVE RAPING, MURDERer, PEDOPHILE. (please excuse my caption locked writing) There is all kinds of things Muhammad was wrong about. The worst of which was when he lied about Jesus being a false Prophet, who used deception. Muhammad denies Jesus ever suffered on the cross, which shows a complete lack of compassion for him, or anyone who loved him, including God.

[Kuan]

The Koran was written by an uneducated, illiterate pirate, false prophet. In it, he claims to know for a fact that Jesus not only lied about who he was (the son of God) but that he also decieved people into believing he conquered death. i.e. It was all smoke and mirrors.

Muhammad was a lying, thieving, slave-raping, murdering, pedophile. His Koran is an abomination of God. Muhammad is in the Bible. He is mentioned in Revelations as the false prophet and the antichrist, who's new dwelling is in the Lake of Fire. All of Islam is covering up for all his attrocities for one reason or another.

Care to provide any evidence at all for these remarks?

If he was uneducated and illiterate, than wouldn't the fact that he got the stuff such as the two seas right a miracle?

Also, could you provide any evidence that the bible is the word of god?

tHE nt IS 4 BOOKS WRITTEN BY, AND BASED ON 1000's OF EYE WITNESS ACCOUNTS TO THE HAPPENINGS AND TEACHINGS OF jESUS cHRIST. tHE kORAN WAS WRITTEN BY DICTATION BY AN ILLITERATE, UNEDUCATED LYING, THIEVING, SLAVE-TRADING, SLAVE RAPING, MURDERer, PEDOPHILE. (please excuse my caption locked writing)

4 books written hundreds of years later. What eye witnesses? All the witnesses are within the bible.

There is all kinds of things Muhammad was wrong about. The worst of which was when he lied about Jesus being a false Prophet, who used deception. Muhammad denies Jesus ever suffered on the cross, which shows a complete lack of compassion for him, or anyone who loved him, including God.

How can muhammed be wrong if you cant prove Jesus to be a true prophet? Plus the bible is wrong about many things also.

[Murad]

tHE nt IS 4 BOOKS WRITTEN BY, AND BASED ON 1000's OF EYE WITNESS ACCOUNTS TO THE HAPPENINGS AND TEACHINGS OF jESUS cHRIST. tHE kORAN WAS WRITTEN BY DICTATION BY AN ILLITERATE, UNEDUCATED LYING, THIEVING, SLAVE-TRADING, SLAVE RAPING, MURDERer, PEDOPHILE.

Thanks for showing the extent of your ignorance.

The four canonical gospels are ANONYMOUS writtten up to NINETY years after the disappearance of Jesus Christ.

Provide a single conclusive text or evidence of any sort to prove "The Gospel according to 'so&so'" was ACTUALLY written by a disciple of Jesus.

There is all kinds of things Muhammad was wrong about. The worst of which was when he lied about Jesus being a false Prophet, who used deception.

Wrong, Islam denies any blasphemous idea that God Al-Mighty killed HIMSELF on the Cross by a disgraceful death so that HE wouldnt get angry. Such logic is not permissible in Islam.

Muhammad denies Jesus ever suffered on the cross

He may have suffered, but he didn't die. Read my rebuttal, which no one on this forum has proved wrong:
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... hp?t=15530

which shows a complete lack of compassion for him, or anyone who loved him, including God.

Wait was Jesus God? Or the Son of God?
Why didn't the Trinity exist until Tertullian, a lawyer and presbyter of the third century Church in Carthage, INVENTED it? Was Tertullian a Prophet like Paul who had the authority to create pseudo doctrines?

[Murad]

Hello Darias

Yes, military interpretations of the Quran is very common among the Taliban, it could be true, but its mere opinion, thus Allah knows best.

Regarding "Science" in the Quran, i don't think time is a reason the Quran has more scientific facts than the Bible, who knew 1400 years ago that the oceans had internal currents? Or that the seas did not transgress on each other(salt & fresh water), contrary to the Bible being written by numerous authors(thus more chances of inputting scientific knowledge), the Quran was produced by 1 unschooled man.

[Mirac]

Hello Darias,

What Mirac seems to be doing is very similar to what a fundamentalist Christian would do. Pick random verses that look like they sound scientific, and try to see if they match up with modern science.

I am trying to provide you with clear evidences by emphasizing science. Since most people even the ones that don't believe what they can't see accept the existence of radio waves, black holes etc. rely on it, they may realize that no one could give so clear explanations to puzzling questions without divine revelation. For instance; what's the shape of earth?

"He made the earth egg-shaped."

(79-The Snatchers, 30)

Is this look like scientific or science's itself? Do you think Muhammad (pbuh) was an astronomer? I'd not be surprised if you consider this just a coincidence as many folks see universe's existence is full of coincidences. It's a method to reason things that you don't want to believe.

Fundamentalists tend to believe what they wanna believe without ever questioning it. In contrast, I want you to use your logic to distinguish coincidence from truth.

However, the fact that scientific common sense exists in the Qur'an and in the Bible does not prove anything. The belief that they are the Words of God is unprovable -- but a belief nonetheless.

What do you need to believe?

This action of retrofitting scriptures with modern interpretation and understanding is something I find to be dangerous (speaking of my own faith as well).

You made a good point by giving your example of promoting violence. But I am upset that you think I altered the verses for my own benefit. I doubt you read full of my post. Do you see any benefit in this? And I have to ask you: What do I promote?

[Goat]

Hello Darias

Yes, military interpretations of the Quran is very common among the Taliban, it could be true, but its mere opinion, thus Allah knows best.

Regarding "Science" in the Quran, i don't think time is a reason the Quran has more scientific facts than the Bible, who knew 1400 years ago that the oceans had internal currents? Or that the seas did not transgress on each other(salt & fresh water), contrary to the Bible being written by numerous authors(thus more chances of inputting scientific knowledge), the Quran was produced by 1 unschooled man.

I challenge the idea that the Quran was 'produced by 1 unschooled man'. That might be the tradition, but since the Quran was not written down until after Mohammad's death. how can you demonstrate it came from him?