If You Don't Believe Quran is the Word of God

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Mirac
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If You Don't Believe Quran is the Word of God

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Post by Mirac »

Today science reveals many miracles that no one knew 14 centuries ago. Implications stated in Quran when people thought the earth had the shape of a tray prove that it was written by god. There are many evidence enough to write a book but I am giving you a few.

1. The Two Seas That Don't Merge

A French oceanographer, J. Cousteau noticed that the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean did not merge in the strait of Gibraltar. An incredible barrier prevented the two seas from coming together as stated in Quran.
"He has let free the two seas meeting together. Between them there is a barrier which they do not transgress."

(55-Gracious, 19-20)
This is because of a physical characteristic called “surface tension.� Thus, neighboring seas present different densities, salinity rates and compositions. Water, that usually mixes easily, can turn into a wall and it is not affected by strong waves and currents.
"He is the One who has set free the two seas; one is sweet and palatable, and the other is salty and bitter. And He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed."
(25-The Distinquisher, 53)
2. Orbits of Astronomical Objects

In 17th century Galileo Galilei discovered that planets orbited sun.
"It is He who created the night and the day, and the sun, and the moon; each of them floating in an orbit."

(21-The Prophets, 33)

"By the Sky with its ingeniously devised paths (orbits)."
(51-The Dispersing, 7)
3. Landing on the Moon and its Date
"And the Moon when it is full. You will surely ride from stage to stage. So, why do they not believe?"
(84-The Splitting, 18-20)

"The Hour has come closer and the moon has split."
(54-The Moon, 1)
The number of verses to be counted from this verse to the end of the Quran is 1389. The year 1389 in the Muslim calendar corresponds to the year 1969 in the Gregorian calendar, and the year 1969 was the year when man set foot on the moon for the first time.

4. The Land-Sea Ratio

Word --- Number of occurrence in Quran ---- The Ratio
Sea --------------------- 32 --------------------- 32/45=71.111
Land -------------------- 13 --------------------- 13/45=28.888

The ratio of seas to earth: %71
The ratio of lands to earth: %29

5. Geoidal Form of Earth

Quran explains that the shape of earth is not like a tray or a sphere but geoidal by resembling it to an ostrich's egg. The word “dahw� in the verse below means rotundity like that of the ostrich’s egg.
"He made the earth egg-shaped."

(79-The Snatchers, 30)
6. Only Female Bees Work

In recent decades, it was understood that only female bees build hives, collect nectar and make honey.
"And your Lord revealed the female honeybee; build homes in mountains, and trees, and in the hives people built for you. Then, eat of all fruits, and follow the ways of your Lord made easy (for you). There comes forth from their bellies, a drink of varying colour wherein is healing for men. Verily, in this is indeed a sign for people who think."

(16-The Honeybee, 68-69)
7. Pulsars

Pulsars are highly magnetized, rotating neutron stars that emit a beam of electromagnetic radiation. The radiation can only be observed when the beam of emission is pointing towards the Earth. This is called the lighthouse effect and gives rise to the pulsed nature that gives pulsars their name. The first pulsar was observed on November 28, 1967 (from wikipedia)
"By the heavens and The Knocker. How will you comprehend what the The Knocker is? It’s a piercing star."
(86-The Knocker, 1-3)
8. Unique Fingertips

In 1856, Genn Ginsen found out that the pattern of lines at the tip of a person’s finger was something unique to the individual. Until 1856, men knew nothing about this characteristic of fingertips.
"Does the human being think that We cannot assemble his bones? Surely, We are able to reconstruct even his fingertips."

(75-The Resurrection, 3-4)
9. Big Bang, Gaseous Stage and Expansion of Universe

The Big Bang was the event which led to the formation of the universe, according to the prevailing cosmological theory of the universe's early development (known as the Big Bang theory or Big Bang model). According to the Big Bang model, the universe, originally in an extremely hot and dense state that expanded rapidly, has since cooled by expanding to the present diluted state, and continues to expand today. Over a long period of time, the slightly denser regions of the nearly uniformly distributed matter gravitationally attracted nearby matter and thus grew even denser, forming gas clouds, stars, galaxies, and the other astronomical structures observable today. (from wikipedia)
"Do not these disbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were an integrated mass, which We then split, and from water We made all living things? Will they not believe even then?"

(21-The Prophets, 30)

"Then He turned to the heavens, and it was in a gaseous state. And said to it, and the earth; “Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly.� They said, “We come willingly.� "

(41-Elucidated, 11)

"With power did We construct firmament. Verily, We are expanding it."

(51-The Dispersing, 47)
10. The Atom and its Particles
"Not even an atom’s weight in the heavens and the earth, or something smaller or greater than it is hidden from Him, but all are in a clear record."

(34-Sheba, 3)

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Re: Hmm

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Post by Wootah »

mormon boy51 wrote:Take out Islam and replace it with christianity. Then Quran and replace with the bible. Then Muslim with Christian. BINGO! It matches perfectly!
It just takes you out of the game if that is your level of post.

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Re: Hmm

Post #22

Post by Wootah »

Mirac wrote:A typical hate speech.
A typical left wing move to silence criticism by falsely labeling it.

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Post #23

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Darias wrote:I'm not a Muslim, I'm a Christian, and as a student of history I must, must point out that you are completely wrong by saying that Islam an d Islamic cultures have never produced anything worthy of science.
I didn't say that.
That is not simply an opinion; it is totally ignorant of history.
I am saying there was no golden age. We will see who is ignorant of history I suspect.
When Medieval Christian Europe was ravaged by the Black Death (all while slaughtering Jews in a desperate attempt to appease what they saw as God's wrath), Muslim societies worked on medicinal cures and allowed religious freedom (although nothing like the religious freedom of the United States -- it was still a society quite advanced for its time). And it was a religious duty to pursue a medical cure -- because they believed, according to the Hadiths, that "there is a cure for every illness except death."
Where do you think Arabic Numerals come from? The numbers we use? Think how hard math would be if we had to divide XXIV by III?
India.
In 1492, Catholic Spain forcibly expelled all its Jews and Muslims -- and the Ottoman Empire welcomed them in. Spain later expelled the descendants of the Muslims who had converted to Christianity as well.
And in 2010 we see Europe not heeding the warnings of the past. This century sure looks like its going to be reaping a lot. From your tone regarding Spain you don't know your history.
In all respects, It was only a few hundred years ago that Christian cultures were the embodiment of everything backwards, whereas Muslim societies were tolerant and advanced for their time. This is just a historical fact.
That's just not the case. Europe was not backwards and Muslim societies were not tolerant.
Of course it doesn't mean that Islam is the one true faith and it doesn't prove the Koran or the existence of God... but it is what it is.
Of course we can agree on that.

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Re: If You Don't Believe Quran is the Word of God

Post #24

Post by Wootah »

Mirac wrote: 1. The Two Seas That Don't Merge

A French oceanographer, J. Cousteau noticed that the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean did not merge in the strait of Gibraltar. An incredible barrier prevented the two seas from coming together as stated in Quran.
"He has let free the two seas meeting together. Between them there is a barrier which they do not transgress."

(55-Gracious, 19-20)
This is because of a physical characteristic called “surface tension.� Thus, neighboring seas present different densities, salinity rates and compositions. Water, that usually mixes easily, can turn into a wall and it is not affected by strong waves and currents.
"He is the One who has set free the two seas; one is sweet and palatable, and the other is salty and bitter. And He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed."
(25-The Distinquisher, 53)
1) Which sea was Mohammad talking about when he said it was sweet and palatable?

2) My understanding is the effect you are talking about does not occur with seas at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pycnocline

3) The water does mix at the pycnocline. There is no partition that is forbidden to be passed. Do you really think it doesn't?

edit:
4) 55:22 is wrong and proves the koran is conclusively false

http://www.quranbrowser.com/cgi/bin/get ... ng=055:022

The koran claims that coral comes from fresh water which it does not.

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Re: If You Don't Believe Quran is the Word of God

Post #25

Post by Mirac »

Wootah wrote: 1) Which sea was Mohammad talking about when he said it was sweet and palatable?
J. Cousteau, gives the following account as a result of his studies in water barriers:
“We studied the assertions by certain researchers about barriers separating seas, and noticed that the Mediterranean Sea had its own salinity and density and housed autochthonous fauna and flora. Then we examined the water of the Atlantic Ocean and discovered features entirely different from those of the Mediterranean Sea. According to our expectations, these two seas that merged in the strait of Gibraltar should present similar characteristics in terms of salinity, density and other properties. The two seas presented different features even though they were adjacent. This greatly puzzled us. An incredible barrier prevented the two seas from coming together. The same sort of a barrier had also been observed in Bab Al-Mandab in the Gulf of Aden connecting with the Red Sea. Subsequent to our observations, further researchers made it clear that the seas which had different characteristics had some barriers.�

These are the results of his research to the best of my knowledge. There may be more than these two.
Wootah wrote: 2) My understanding is the effect you are talking about does not occur with seas at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pycnocline

3) The water does mix at the pycnocline. There is no partition that is forbidden to be passed. Do you really think it doesn't?
According to Wikipedia:
Halocline - A cline based on difference in water salinity.
Pycnocline - A cline based on difference in water density.

Since salinity is emphasized in verses the effect should be halocline.
Wootah wrote: 4) 55:22 is wrong and proves the koran is conclusively false

http://www.quranbrowser.com/cgi/bin/get ... ng=055:022

The koran claims that coral comes from fresh water which it does not.
The Qur'an mentions about two seas that have different salinity rates, so fresh water is out of subject. Only Dr. Mohsin's translation includes the term. It's his personal comment. So it should not confuse you. The verse (24) repeats the seas.
He has let loose the two seas (the salt and the fresh water) meeting together. (19) Between them is a barrier which none of them can transgress. (20) Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinn and men) deny? (21) Out of them both come out pearl and coral. (22) Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinn and men) deny? (23) And His are the ships going and coming in the seas, like mountains. (24)
(55-Gracious, 19-24)

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Re: Hmm

Post #26

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Wootah wrote:
mormon boy51 wrote:Take out Islam and replace it with christianity. Then Quran and replace with the bible. Then Muslim with Christian. BINGO! It matches perfectly!
It just takes you out of the game if that is your level of post.
No clue what your trying to say here...but it fit perfectly in.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
- Voltaire

Kung may ayaw, may dahilan. Kung may gusto, may paraan.

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Re: If You Don't Believe Quran is the Word of God

Post #27

Post by Wootah »

I have read Mirac's post.

1) Which sea was Mohammad talking about when he said it was sweet and palatable? Did not appear to be answered. I notice in reply to point 4 you are keen to argue neither sea is freshwater due to the contradiction involved in coral not being in fresh water.

2) The halocline seems to be about the same body of water creating layers. So I don't think you can claim this is the effect Mohammad was talking about especially because he was referring to seas.
http://www.whoi.edu/oceanus/viewImage.d ... 6&id=18008

Actually reading more all the clines seem to refer to the layers in a body of water.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 418AAtnYTE

3) The water does mix. There is no partition that is forbidden to be passed. Do you really think it doesn't? We see separation in drinks all the time but at the point of separation the liquids mix. There is no barrier.

4) OK what I realized is that point 4 restricts Mirac to making both seas be salty and not freshwater. So how does a salty sea that produces coral produce sweet palatable water?

5) What was the point of this verse in the Koran to the original listener? What did the original listener believe Mohammad was talking about?

6) Is there any non Muslim site that discusses what J Cousteau was talking about?

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Re: If You Don't Believe Quran is the Word of God

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Mirac wrote:Today science reveals many miracles that no one knew 14 centuries ago. Implications stated in Quran when people thought the earth had the shape of a tray prove that it was written by god. There are many evidence enough to write a book but I am giving you a few.

."

(34-Sheba, 3)
[/quote]

If 'miraculous foreknowledge of scientific facts unknown to the people of ancient times' is proof that the Quran was written by God, then the Bible also must have been written by God, because it also contains such facts.

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Re: If You Don't Believe Quran is the Word of God

Post #29

Post by Mirac »

Wootah wrote:I have read Mirac's post.

1) Which sea was Mohammad talking about when he said it was sweet and palatable? Did not appear to be answered. I notice in reply to point 4 you are keen to argue neither sea is freshwater due to the contradiction involved in coral not being in fresh water.
Thanks for the picture. Now I understand better what the verses try to mean. My understanding is that due to characteristics of Arabic, the verse 25:53 can also be translated as Yusuf Ali did:
“It is He Who has let free the two bodies of flowing water: One palatable and sweet, and the other salt and bitter; yet has He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed. “(25:53)
So, in the case of strait of Gibraltar, there are two adjacent seas, the Atlantic and the Mediterranean. The Mediterranean is saltier than the other. Each sea has different layers, and only the upper ones meeting together because the strait is shallow. The Atlantic’s upper level is sweet and sparse comparing to the Mediterranean’s, and these differences prevent them to merge.
Wootah wrote: 2) The halocline seems to be about the same body of water creating layers. So I don't think you can claim this is the effect Mohammad was talking about especially because he was referring to seas.
http://www.whoi.edu/oceanus/viewImage.d ... 6&id=18008

Actually reading more all the clines seem to refer to the layers in a body of water.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 418AAtnYTE
I am not sure which scientific effect best explains this situation, but it’s a fact that this happens anyway.
Wootah wrote:
3) The water does mix. There is no partition that is forbidden to be passed. Do you really think it doesn't? We see separation in drinks all the time but at the point of separation the liquids mix. There is no barrier.
No, at the point of separation the liquids dissolve too little that can be neglected.
Wootah wrote:
4) OK what I realized is that point 4 restricts Mirac to making both seas be salty and not freshwater. So how does a salty sea that produces coral produce sweet palatable water?
See answer one. Both seas are salty, but their layers may not.
Wootah wrote:
5) What was the point of this verse in the Koran to the original listener? What did the original listener believe Mohammad was talking about?
You should believe that he could not speak without God's revelation. They are his signs for the man of understanding.
"And He shows you His signs: Then which of the signs of God will you deny?"
40:81
Wootah wrote:
6) Is there any non Muslim site that discusses what J Cousteau was talking about?
http://www.cousteau.org
wonderer wrote:If 'miraculous foreknowledge of scientific facts unknown to the people of ancient times' is proof that the Quran was written by God, then the Bible also must have been written by God, because it also contains such facts.
Yes. The original Bible was written by God.

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Re: If You Don't Believe Quran is the Word of God

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So, in the case of strait of Gibraltar, there are two adjacent seas, the Atlantic and the Mediterranean. The Mediterranean is saltier than the other. Each sea has different layers, and only the upper ones meeting together because the strait is shallow. The Atlantic’s upper level is sweet and sparse comparing to the Mediterranean’s, and these differences prevent them to merge.


Do you agree that neither sea is sweet and palatable? Does this cause you any concern?

Are you claiming as science that the sweetness (the taste) of the Atlantic prevents them merging and not density or temperature as per the wiki information on clines?
I am not sure which scientific effect best explains this situation, but it’s a fact that this happens anyway.
Basically the water forms layers depending upon the density or temperature. There is no barrier.
No, at the point of separation the liquids dissolve too little that can be neglected.
Proof?
See answer one. Both seas are salty, but their layers may not.
Which means that neither sea is palatable and sweet. Response?
Where on the site?

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