Why does the bible not repudiate slavery?

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Why does the bible not repudiate slavery?

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Post by Furrowed Brow »

Why does the bible not repudiate slavery?

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Re: Why does the bible not repudiate slavery?

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Post by Ragna »

Furrowed Brow wrote:Why does the bible not repudiate slavery?
The most plausible explanation is that it dragged its morality from the society the writers lived in.

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Post by McCulloch »

Could it be that God does not disapprove of slavery?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Re: Why does the bible not repudiate slavery?

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

Why does the bible not repudiate slavery?
The bible is silent on any issues that are not directly related God's purpose and plan of salvation. Having imbued humans with a conscience individuals and societies would thereafter be held accountable for their actions on that basis, regardless of whether The Creator made a direct commented on any given subject or not.

When any institution, government, individual has taken action in direct opposition to the development of His purpose God has intervened, otherwise he has left mankind to develop their own systems much to our collective chagrin (see Ecc 8:9). Slavery is one of those tragic systems.

SLAVERY AND THE MOSAIC LAW

When the worlds systems have impacted on his people (and subsequently his purpose) God has from necessity regulated. The existence of poverty as well as the sparing of the lives of some in the nations they conquered meant that there would be those that would be in a position of servitude. The Mosaic law regulated for this in a way that reflects God's general attitude to slavery* but the total abolishment of this feature of human civilisation at the time was neither feasible not essential to the realization of his purpose.

What is God's attitude to Slavery?

The bible is a book of both law and principle. The principles cover the range of human experience and allow the perceptive reader to deduce whether something is "good" or "bad" in God's view. In short not everything is explicitly stated, but may be implicit in scriptural principle:
  • *treat your neighbour (fellow human being) as you want to be treated (Matt 7:12)
    *to love everyone including your "enemy" (Math 5: 44)
    *that all humans are equal in the eyes of God (Act 10: 35)
    *human domination causes human suffering (Ecc 8:9b)
The above principles and many others, allow the decerning reader to accurately assess God's attitude to not only slavery but many other manmade structures and institutions that he is temporarily allowing to exist. God therefore addresses the question of slavery in addressing the underlying principles while expecting his people to live and respect the systems they find themselves in until his final intervention to the relief of all mankind.

Further reading...
http://www.watchtower.org/e/20010908a/article_01.htm




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Re: Why does the bible not repudiate slavery?

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Post by Goat »

Furrowed Brow wrote:Why does the bible not repudiate slavery?
Because in the time period the Bible was written, it was not economically feasible to repudiate it and still maintain a degree of civilization.. it is only when technology has gotten to the point we do not require as much manual labor that we could get rid of it (although ti is still around much more than we admit)

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Re: Why does the bible not repudiate slavery?

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Post by McCulloch »

Why does the bible not repudiate slavery?
JehovahsWitness wrote:The bible is silent on any issues that are not directly related God's purpose and plan of salvation.
This is a bit of an untestable assertion. Given that outside of the Bible, we have no way of determining what is or is not directly related to God's purpose and plan of salvation, you end up running around in circles.

The Bible does not repudiate slavery, thus slavery per se is not related to God's purpose and plan of salvation. The Bible dictates the policy about the appropriate length of hair according to gender, therefore it may be related to God's purpose and plan of salvation.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Re: Why does the bible not repudiate slavery?

Post #7

Post by JehovahsWitness »

McCulloch wrote:
Why does the bible not repudiate slavery?
JehovahsWitness wrote:The bible is silent on any issues that are not directly related God's purpose and plan of salvation.
This is a bit of an untestable assertion. Given that outside of the Bible, we have no way of determining what is or is not directly related to God's purpose and plan of salvation, you end up running around in circles.

The Bible does not repudiate slavery, thus slavery per se is not related to God's purpose and plan of salvation. The Bible dictates the policy about the appropriate length of hair according to gender, therefore it may be related to God's purpose and plan of salvation.
God's Purpose and related issues.

Logically, if an omnipotent being doesn't do something, since no existing force can impose its will on him, he must be refrainting because he does not want to do that thing and/or it is not his purpose. Alternatively then, we can say, if God does or expresses a desire to do something, it is his purpose (Is 55:11) . God explicitly states his Divine purpose in scripture (Gen 1: 27, 28; 2:3) and the progressive revelation of that purpose is developed in its pages (Gen 2:15; Ro 8:28-30). The pattern of these revelations permits humans to descern the direction of his will and what is or is not related to it although this understanding has itself been progressive (see Eph 3:3, 4)

To illustrate: A man explains his project to build a house. Observers see a man building a house although at first it may not be evident why he goes about it in a certain way. Knowing what he is doing and observing why he does certain things would enable the reasonable observers to deduce that not doing one of the other merriads of things because he is dedicated to achieving his primary purpose, that of constructing the house.

In a similar way that observers, aware of the purpose would not wonder why the builder is not buying a toutou and taking ballet lessons, and is not knitting a bobble hat and training dancing poodles, it is possible for the serious bible scholar aware of the purpose and plan God has expressed in his Word to logically conclude that certain things are not directly related to the central themes and purpose as expressed through the divine revelation.

The opposite is also true; just as seeing the man, find a stone, to sharpen the axe to cut the tree, to build the beam to support the roof of the house that he's building, serious bible scholars have enough insight to understand how particular bible passages fit into the big picture.

Those with little or no scriptural insight just see a man digging up a stone.

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Post #8

Post by JoeyKnothead »

From Post 4:
JehovahsWitness wrote: The bible is silent on any issues that are not directly related God's purpose and plan of salvation. Having imbued humans with a conscience individuals and societies would thereafter be held accountable for their actions on that basis, regardless of whether The Creator made a direct commented on any given subject or not.
Well don't that just beat all.

God figures it's important enough to mention not mixing fabrics, but just can't find the time to comment on that whole enslaving your fellow human beings deal. Is this dude asleep at the wheel? Or is He just not there to be commenting on such matters?
JehovahsWitness wrote: When any institution, government, individual has taken action in direct opposition to the development of His purpose God has intervened...
Unproven assertion.

I challenge anyone to show a god has acted on this universe, much less on humans.
JehovahsWitness wrote: otherwise he has left mankind to develop their own systems much to our collective chagrin (see Ecc 8:9). Slavery is one of those tragic systems.
That sounds more like the nonaction of a god that ain't there.
JehovahsWitness wrote: SLAVERY AND THE MOSAIC LAW

When the worlds systems have impacted on his people (and subsequently his purpose) God has from necessity regulated. The existence of poverty as well as the sparing of the lives of some in the nations they conquered meant that there would be those that would be in a position of servitude. The Mosaic law regulated for this in a way that reflects God's general attitude to slavery* but the total abolishment of this feature of human civilisation at the time was neither feasible not essential to the realization of his purpose.
Wouldn't ya know it - God can create an entire universe, but can't stop humans from enslaving others.

Given that whole "worship Me or I'm gonna getya" deal, maybe this ain't so surprising.
JehovahsWitness wrote: What is God's attitude to Slavery?

The bible is a book of both law and principle. The principles cover the range of human experience and allow the perceptive reader to deduce whether something is "good" or "bad" in God's view. In short not everything is explicitly stated, but may be implicit in scriptural principle:
Seems by not mentioning don't do it, god is cool with go ahead and do it.
JehovahsWitness wrote: *treat your neighbour (fellow human being) as you want to be treated (Matt 7:12)
This seems counter to the claim above that God would interfere when folks were doing something He didn't like, here of course that being slavery.
JehovahsWitness wrote: *to love everyone including your "enemy" (Math 5: 44)
I fling poo at my enemies.

If God can cook me in a lake of fire for simply saying g-d, or some such, and then tells me to love my enemies, why he's as big a hypocrite as any I've known.
JehovahsWitness wrote: *that all humans are equal in the eyes of God (Act 10: 35)
Though some are more equal than others.
JehovahsWitness wrote: *human domination causes human suffering (Ecc 8:9b)
It took God to tell us that?
JehovahsWitness wrote: The above principles and many others, allow the decerning reader to accurately [strike]assess[/strike] make wild unsubtantiated guesses at God's attitude to not only slavery but many other manmade structures and institutions that he is temporarily allowing to exist.
No need to thank me for fixin' that.
JehovahsWitness wrote: God therefore addresses the question of slavery in addressing the underlying principles while expecting his people to live and respect the systems they find themselves in until his final intervention to the relief of all mankind.
"Y'all be mindful of your slave-masters, ya hear!"

>snip reference<

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Post #9

Post by Slopeshoulder »

Simple: because the many men who wrote the bible didn't repudiate slavery. They were not that evolved at the time. Wise in many ways, they hadn't got there yet.

Any other interpreatation is mental gymnasitics to support a fantasy. Might as well talk about Frodo Baggins.

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Post #10

Post by Shermana »

McCulloch wrote:Could it be that God does not disapprove of slavery?
That is correct. There was no social safety network like Welfare back then. However, Israelite slavery is far different than all other forms of slavery. It actually considers the slave's rights and feelings.

Thus, on hard times, or if you found yourself in debt, you could do a 7 year plan, likely to a wealthy family that had the means to provide food and shelter right from the family lands. Sounds like a much better deal than scavenging for berries and running from slave-traders.

Conditions were so good that apparently there was a provision for slaves who didn't want to have the "curse of freedom" that involved an involuntary ear-piercing with a pick.

Now compare Israelite standards of treatment of slaves to an Egyptians' or Assyrians' or Canaanite's or Turkish slave.

The race that is most notable for slavery is SLAVS, so in versions of Jewish thought that involve "rebirth", being born as a Slav that got sacked from a Turkish raid might in fact have application to being reborn to deserve such (i.e. was a slave-owner in preceding existence). It says quite clearly that Jews will see their sons and daughters sold as slaves. We Jews may be the oldest and most notoriously known "Slave Race" even FAR before races that got originally known for it such as the Slavs. And the Canaanites themselves are said to be "Slaves of slaves". Even Jesus makes the Canaanite woman admit she's as a "dog" compared to the Israelites. But perhaps I'm giving away my Jewish supremacism here.

The idea of slavery in Biblical thought being a bad thing is based on the idea that people don't deserve what they got even when the Bible directly says so. There are people who are today put in jail to do slave labor for growing plants based on Unconstitutional (and-counter-economic) Laws, are they not slaves to the profiteers who get paid to keep them?

Christians who think the Law is done away with and thus Slavery is a thing of the past should read Paul some more and then have another think.

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