Why did God create evil?

[JohnPaul]

Why did God create evil? This question has been disputed by theologians for centuries without a satisfactory answer. Some Christians blame the devil for evil, but that only pushes the question back a step: Why did God create the devil?

Many thinking Christians are disturbed by the obvious differences between the pure and loving God spoken of by Jesus and the primitive, vain and vindictive war-god of the Hebrew Old Testament. The apparent injustice perpetrated by the creator-god in the Garden of Eden when he punished the entire human race
forever for a seemingly minor transgression by a naive human couple there offends our human sense of justice.

The early Christian Gnostics came up with an answer, but the established Church condemned them as heretics and violently exterminated them. The ancient documents discovered at Nag Hammadi in 1945 have revealed more about Gnostic beliefs.

Very briefly, the Gnostics believed that the true God was a remote, purely spiritual entity that did not directly interact with the material world, but issued bits of itself as "Emanations." One of these Emanations, apparently on a prideful whim, created the material universe. Because this Emanation lacked the full
balance of divine power and wisdom of its source, its creation was defective and not only contained the potential for all the evil we see today, but also trapped bits of the Divine Essence into the material world in the form of human souls.

One or more of the other Emanations recognized the defects of the material creation and tried to rescue the trapped souls. A human soul could escape the material world and return to its spiritual home only when the individual human realized and understood the "divine knowledge" trapped within himself. Other
"Emanations" or divine teachers such as Jesus could help, but it was ultimately up to each individual to develop the insight to access the "divine spark" within himself. This might take many earthly reincarnations to accomplish.

In the Bible, Jesus says: "The truth shall make you free." In the "Gospel of Thomas" found among the Nag Hammadi scriptures, Jesus says to Thomas: "When you understand what I have said to you, I will no longer
be your master, because we are both from the same source."

One of the Nag Hammadi documents gives a very different interpretation of the Garden of Eden story. In the ancient world, the serpent was a symbol of wisdom, not of evil. In the Nag Hammadi "Gospel of Truth," the serpent was a divine Emanation trying to rescue the trapped human souls by giving them access
to Divine Knowledge. The jealous creator-god, or "demiurge," resented this intrusion into his private creation and punished Adam and Eve for listening to the serpent.

It is easy to see why the established Church disliked and feared this Gnostic doctrine. It removed Original Sin and the threat of Hell, tools which the established Church needed to maintain its power over the fearful
masses.

I am not really a believer in either Christianity or Gnosticism, but I am very interested in hearing opinions on this doctrine, which makes more sense to me than the traditional Biblical interpretation.

John

[De Maria]

Why did God create evil? This question has been disputed by theologians for centuries without a satisfactory answer.

You mean that the answer doesn't satisfy you. I'm quite satisfied with the answer provided by Christianity.

Some Christians blame the devil for evil, but that only pushes the question back a step: Why did God create the devil?....

God created all His creatures to love and serve Him and to be with Him forever in eternity.

I am not really a believer in either Christianity or Gnosticism, but I am very interested in hearing opinions on this doctrine, which makes more sense to me than the traditional Biblical interpretation.

My opinion is that Gnosticism is false. The logical basis for that statement is that two contradictory statement can't be true at the same time. The Christian religion has produced testimonial evidence to the truth of the existence of Jesus Christ, God and Man. And the teaching of Christianity is completely different than that of Gnosticism.

As the Scripture says:
2 Pet 1:16For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

17For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

18And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[myth-one.com]

Why did God create evil?

Welcome John Paul! Weren’t you formally the Pope?

Evil is the intention or effect of causing harm or destruction, usually specifically from the perception of deliberately violating some moral code. Evil is usually seen as the opposite of good.

Everything that God created was good. But most of us would agree that evil is definitely bad. Since evil is not good, God did not create evil. What God did create was freedom of choice. Angels and man were created with freedom of choice. To chose, one must have at least two possible selections.

God also created laws or commandments which the beings He created should obey. Sin is disobeying God's laws:

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: ...for sin is the transgression of the law. (I John 3:4)

So our two choices dwindle down to obeying or disobeying God’s laws or commandments. Obeying produces good and disobeying produces evil. Ahhh, the simplicity of it!

God did not create the sins. God created angels and man with freedom of choice and defined laws for them to live by. They can choose between good and evil. That is, between obeying or disobeying God's laws. Angels and man then created evil by choosing to violate God's laws.

It is easy to see why the established Church disliked and feared this Gnostic doctrine. It removed Original Sin and the threat of Hell, tools which the established Church needed to maintain its power over the fearful masses.

Yes, and this ignorant doctrine backfired on the church. By falsely claiming man to be immortal, and hell an eternal ongoing torture, the Church portrays their God as both Loving and Sadistic.

While the fear it generates may cause some to pledge aliegance "just in case," it drives many others from the church. But it has always caused unnecessary fear, worry, deaths, and ruined lives -- for which the "Church" accepts no responsibility.

[JohnPaul]

[quote="De MariaMy opinion is that Gnosticism is false. The logical basis for that statement is that two contradictory statement can't be true at the same time. De Maria[/quote]

Hello, De Maria,

What about one of the most famous contradictions, an omniscient God and human free will? If God is omniscient, all-knowing, then he certainly knows the future. He knew long before he created the world, about all the evil that would develop in it, the serpent in the Garden of Eden, the great flood, Sodom and Gomorra, the crucifixion of Jesus, etc., etc., yet he created the world anyway. When God creates a human soul, he knows in advance whether that soul will sin and go to hell, or not. If God knows when he creates a soul that that soul is destined for hell, then why not send it directly to hell, rather than clutter up the earth with another sinner?

The doctrines of God's omniscience and human free will are logically contradictory!
Some claim that God has the power to prevent himself from knowing the future, but that is artificial. The future would still be KNOWABLE to God if he chose. That would be like an automobile company skipping the manufacturing quality control checks, producing autos with serious defects, and then claiming in court that they didn't know about the defects!

Free will is an illusion for humans who cannot know the future, a sadistic deception by God. Every alternative choice a human makes, God knows what his choice will be in advance. Is this God's idea of entertainment?

John

[De Maria]

Hello, De Maria,

What about one of the most famous contradictions, an omniscient God and human free will? If God is omniscient, all-knowing, then he certainly knows the future. He knew long before he created the world, about all the evil that would develop in it, the serpent in the Garden of Eden, the great flood, Sodom and Gomorra, the crucifixion of Jesus, etc., etc., yet he created the world anyway. When God creates a human soul, he knows in advance whether that soul will sin and go to hell, or not. If God knows when he creates a soul that that soul is destined for hell, then why not send it directly to hell, rather than clutter up the earth with another sinner?

The doctrines of God's omniscience and human free will are logically contradictory!

There are some things that are meant only for God to know. It is a mystery with which I don't wrestle.
Deuteronomy 29:29 (King James Version)

29The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

However, you called this particular mystery a contradiction. I beg to differ. God may know everything, but we don't. Therefore it is not contradicting. It is simply unexplained.

Some claim that God has the power to prevent himself from knowing the future, but that is artificial. The future would still be KNOWABLE to God if he chose. That would be like an automobile company skipping the manufacturing quality control checks, producing autos with serious defects, and then claiming in court that they didn't know about the defects!

Come back to earth. I never made that claim so you are arguing with straw men of your making.

Free will is an illusion for humans who cannot know the future, a sadistic deception by God. Every alternative choice a human makes, God knows what his choice will be in advance. Is this God's idea of entertainment?

God gave all of us a choice:
Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

God already knows which you have chosen. Do you?

Sincerely,

De Maria

[myth-one.com]

Free will is an illusion for humans who cannot know the future, a sadistic deception by God. Every alternative choice a human makes, God knows what his choice will be in advance.

I’m not so sure. Many consider omniscient to include knowledge of everything in the past, present, and future. But is that the case?

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are God. Are all three omniscient? Not according to the Bible and the above definition:

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

According to the Bible, only God the Father knows the exact time of the Second Coming. Since God the Father lives eternally and will send His Son back to the earth, the time of that event can be known by the Father as a fact. That is, there is no chance He will not be around to cause the event to occur at the time He appoints.

Since it is a knowable future time, but God the Son and God the Holy Spirit do not know that future time, then they would not be omniscient if future events are included within the domain of knowledge!

Let’s investigate this closer:

Omniscient: Having total knowledge.

Knowledge: The state or fact of knowing.

Know: To perceive directly; grasp in the mind with clarity or certainty.

Can the future be perceived directly, or grasped in the mind with clarity or certainty by any being?

Future:

1. the time that is to come; days, months, or years ahead
2. what will happen; what is going to be:

What any one man or woman will absolutely do in the future at any given moment is unknown. Thus it is not part of the base of knowledge. What one will do in the future only becomes part of the knowledge base when it occurs. When the future occurs, it will occur at that present time and become knowledge at that moment.

Knowledge is knowing, and the future is unknown, thus the future cannot be considered as knowledge -- except in rare cases (such as God the Father knowing the time in the future of the Second Coming). That event is within His knowledge base. God the Son and God the Holy Spirit will know when God the Father tells them -- if He hasn't already. God also controls prophesied events.

By that explanation the Son and Holy Ghost remain within the definition of omniscient and free will becomes true free will without any contradictions to the principle of omniscience.

[pappillion001]

Why did God create evil?

Welcome John Paul! Weren’t you formally the Pope?

Evil is the intention or effect of causing harm or destruction, usually specifically from the perception of deliberately violating some moral code. Evil is usually seen as the opposite of good.

Everything that God created was good. But most of us would agree that evil is definitely bad. Since evil is not good, God did not create evil. What God did create was freedom of choice. Angels and man were created with freedom of choice. To chose, one must have at least two possible selections.

Ezekiel 5:16-17
16When I shall send upon them the evil arrows of famine, which shall be for their destruction, and which I will send to destroy you: and I will increase the famine upon you, and will break your staff of bread: 17So will I send upon you famine and evil beasts, and they shall bereave thee; and pestilence and blood shall pass through thee; and I will bring the sword upon thee. I the LORD have spoken it.

Ezekiel 6:10
10And they shall know that I am the LORD, and that I have not said in vain that I would do this evil unto them.

If man has so much free will why is God constantly doing things to direct his actions? God gives man the ability to choose but punishes if he chooses incorrectly or influences his choices through various reward/punishment scenarios

God also created laws or commandments which the beings He created should obey. Sin is disobeying God's laws:

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: ...for sin is the transgression of the law. (I John 3:4)

So our two choices dwindle down to obeying or disobeying God’s laws or commandments. Obeying produces good and disobeying produces evil. Ahhh, the simplicity of it!

Yet not 1 paragraph ago you said we have free will. Now we either obey God's laws which we had no part in forming or evil is spread throughout the world. Some choice.

God did not create the sins. God created angels and man with freedom of choice and defined laws for them to live by. They can choose between good and evil. That is, between obeying or disobeying God's laws. Angels and man then created evil by choosing to violate God's laws.

Would have been nice if he had explained all this prior to sentencing, but now your saying we have free will to chosse between 1 of 2 possibilities. I am not seeing that it is so free.

It is easy to see why the established Church disliked and feared this Gnostic doctrine. It removed Original Sin and the threat of Hell, tools which the established Church needed to maintain its power over the fearful masses.

Yes, and this ignorant doctrine backfired on the church. By falsely claiming man to be immortal, and hell an eternal ongoing torture, the Church portrays their God as both Loving and Sadistic.

Ok

While the fear it generates may cause some to pledge aliegance "just in case," it drives many others from the church. But it has always caused unnecessary fear, worry, deaths, and ruined lives -- for which the "Church" accepts no responsibility.

[/quote]

Nobody likes being wrong, they just have taken it to a new extreme

[JohnPaul]

There are some things that are meant only for God to know. It is a mystery with which I don't wrestle.

I don't mean to sound antagonistic. I am an agnostic, not an atheist, and really am looking for answers. However, a logical contradiction to me is not a "mystery," it is a sure indication that one or more of the premises is invalid. From what I remember of my high school geometry class, an answer like "The logical proof of this theorem is a mystery which Man is not meant to know" would not have earned me a passing grade on a test.

I was kicked out of Sunday School class at about age eight for too persistently asking: Where did the sons of Adam and Eve find their wives? Actually, I was not kicked out until I shared with the class my opinion that incest was the only possible answer. I am still convinced that a species could not survive, starting with such a small genetic breeding pool!

It did not disturb me that the old teacher did not know the answer. What really disturbed me was that she seemed to believe that there was something wrong about asking the question, about my refusal to accept the "word" of the Bible (and her word) without question. She confused faith with a glorification of ignorance!

John

[Slopeshoulder]

I like how you think JohnPaul. Honest, open, couragous.

I'm not a fan of gnosticism per se, as I reject its radical dualism and stronger denigration of this world and this species. I think orthodox christianity has a more balanced view regarding our nature. And for all my progressive mystical tendencies, I tend to have little interest in esoterica, and gnosticism seems tailor made for that (oooooo, secret knowledge....shhhhh.....we're special).

But I do like the gospel of thomas if read as tangential to gnosticism, and am intrigued by the theme of emenation in neoplatonism. And some of the themes of gnosticism that appear to have to do with a transformed state of consciousness, a waking up, that few actually figure out, have appeal. In the end this has led me to a christian mysticism that grows out of orthodoxy rather than gnosticism, as well as to other religions that seem to overlap in meaningful ways. But maybe I haven't given gnosticism a fair shake.
You asked for comment rather tha debate, so this is what I provided.

[Overcomer]

I think your confusion stems from a misunderstanding of what evil is, of what a contradiction is, of what love is and why it would be impossible for God NOT to allow free will, JohnPaul.

First of all, evil isn't something that is created like a tree or a horse or a cloud. It's the absence of good just as darkness is the absence of light.

Secondly, it is NOT a contradiction for God to be omniscient and human beings to have free will. The Law of Contradiction states that something cannot be one thing and its exact opposite at the same time. For example, it would be a contradiction if the Bible said that God is omniscient and if it also said God is not omniscient. That would be a contradiction.

Thirdly, God created us to be in a loving relationship with him and with each other. True love must be given out of choice. It cannot be forced. God could have created us as automatons made to love him, but that would be out of character for him since he IS love and knows that true love must be given freely. God cannot and will not do anything outside of his nature and his nature demands that his creation should have the free will to love him.

However, if you give someone the option to love you, you obviously give them the option NOT to love you. This is the choice given to Adam and Eve. The devil came along and made them doubt that God really loved them. The devil is still doing that, by the way. In fact, you, JohnPaul, have fallen for that lie yourself. That's why you're asking the question you have raised in this thread. You're doubting his love.

God never wanted us to know evil which is why he told Adam and Eve NOT to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. However, as I said, he had to give them the option to love him. True love includes trust. If they had loved him, they would have trusted that he had their best interest at heart. But they didn't. So they committed the sin of disobedience and sin entered the world. It is common for people to misunderstand God and his love and therefore attribute all manner of evil to him when, in reality, we are the ones who have chosen it for ourselves.

People who don't know God seem to have their own idea of just what God should be like. What they fail to realize is that God could have left us in our sin. Instead, he sent Jesus Christ who died on the cross and took our sins, giving us his righteousness in exchange. What Jesus did on the cross represents the one true way to measure God's love. It doesn't lie in preventing evil or death. It lies in redeeming us from evil and death.

This, of course, is what sets Christianity apart from all other religions. They're all about people trying to earn their way into the favour of a far-off God. Christianity is all about God coming to us in the person of Jesus. God knew we couldn't make ourselves sin-free, but he couldn't share eternity with us as sinners. So he did the one thing necessary to give us that privilege by sending Christ to die in our place. Other religions do not deal with the question of evil or the solution to it adequately. That's why Christ is the only way to God. There is no other name by which man can be saved.

Re: Adam and Eve and their children's spouses. At that time, they would have married brothers, sisters, cousins, etc. The gene pool was not yet polluted. Only when it broke down did God issue the law re: not marrying close relatives. He did that for health reasons, not moral ones. Interestingly, I have heard that scientists have observed that, genetically, it does indeed look like we all came from the same ancestor.