Dealing With Doubt

[WinePusher]

Well, here's a list of doubts and troubles that I've experienced and I'm sure others have also about Christianity.

1) Extended Periods of Grief, such as losing a loved one.

2) Ephermeral Moments of Anger and Hostility toward God: I tend to have these a lot. For example, I remember a particular moment a couple years back where I was compounded with stress from different situations and I directed my anger towards God in the form of "Why didn't you prevent this from happening." The situation was trivial, the cities power went out on a hot California day and shut down my computer before I saved my work and I couldn't leave the house because my garage is electrically powered. But I remember clearly the anger I felt towards God, and how I was basically pissed that he would allow this to happen.

3) Experiences of suffering, whether it be medically related or related to some other area.

Questions for discussion:

Do you ever doubt or wrestle with God? If so, how do you deal with this and could you provide any specific example?

Do you consdier these doubts justified? Are we ever justified in questioning, doubting or displaying anger and frustration with God?

[Slopeshoulder]

I think doubt comes with faith, that's why it isn't knowledge.

I think doubt makes for a more mature and effective faith.

The Jews have a great tradition of being angry with God, that we could learn from.

The absence of God is a theme that turns up a lot, or better said the God who is present in his absence, who is found in the void.

And I also think that sometimes what we are angry at is merely our own inadequate ideas about God, forcing us to develop better ideas, and better reasons.

You're in very good company, many saints and sages. Not to mention Jesus in gethsemene and on the cross.

So I think you're on the right track.

[Adstar]

Well, here's a list of doubts and troubles that I've experienced and I'm sure others have also about Christianity.

1) Extended Periods of Grief, such as losing a loved one.

2) Ephermeral Moments of Anger and Hostility toward God: I tend to have these a lot. For example, I remember a particular moment a couple years back where I was compounded with stress from different situations and I directed my anger towards God in the form of "Why didn't you prevent this from happening." The situation was trivial, the cities power went out on a hot California day and shut down my computer before I saved my work and I couldn't leave the house because my garage is electrically powered. But I remember clearly the anger I felt towards God, and how I was basically pissed that he would allow this to happen.

3) Experiences of suffering, whether it be medically related or related to some other area.

Questions for discussion:

Do you ever doubt or wrestle with God? If so, how do you deal with this and could you provide any specific example?

I never doubt God, But i do get saddened sometimes when my prayers are not answered in the way i wanted them to be.

Do you consdier these doubts justified? Are we ever justified in questioning, doubting or displaying anger and frustration with God?

I think frustration and doubts do not always go hand in hand. People can get frustrated but still not have any doubts about God.

People may have doubts about God but it is never justified. Lucky for us God understands us and is most forgiving.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[EasternSP]

Hi guys.
I'm new to the forum here and appreciate the opportunity to come into the Holy Huddle Room.
Addressing the OP. Years ago, about the time of the start of the Desert Storm, I began a downward spiral about my faith. I was pretty much a luke warm Christian at the time but the circumstances led me to a point of shaking my fist at God and telling him to get out of my life, that I didn't need his pointless confusing trials anymore.
I really think God was watching me paddle around in my own little pity pool and finally decided enough. He had me watch a Marine Corps friend of mine fall 60 feet to his death from a tree in my backyard. The message that came to me in this was: while I was complaining about the pathetic inconvienient circumstances in my life, I wasn't witnessing to this friend and he may be in eternal damnation now.
God broke me in that instance of revelation. I came back to the lord, asking forgiveness for my actions, trusting that he has taken me back into his loving arms, abundant with forgiveness.
Since that time, I have lost two beautiful Christian wives. One to cancer, the other to a heart attack. I accepted God's will in their deaths and praised him for allowing me to experience and serve these two godly women. Each of their deaths though brought tremendous issues from their families to the point that they no longer speak to me, including my stepchildren from my wives previous marriages. These are lingering issues that trouble me from time to time. There is really nothing I can do about it anymore. Attempts to contact the children (adults) go unanswered. The children have at one time in their lives, professed Christ as their savior.
I guess I could say I wrestle with God on these issues, but knowing I'm way out of my weight class.
I know I'm never justified in my troubled times, but I'm sure that God understands my weakness and provides guidance for me to recover. It doesn't necessarily mean that I follow the guidance, but I know its there.
I think it's a matter of maturity in Christ to understand our situations and be able to trust it to God to carry and resolve. I reflect on how I appear to other Christians in my struggles, through my comments, my prayer requests and my actions.

[Slopeshoulder]

Hi guys.
I'm new to the forum here and appreciate the opportunity to come into the Holy Huddle Room.

Hi and welcome!

Addressing the OP. Years ago, about the time of the start of the Desert Storm, I began a downward spiral about my faith. I was pretty much a luke warm Christian at the time but the circumstances led me to a point of shaking my fist at God and telling him to get out of my life, that I didn't need his pointless confusing trials anymore.

You know, it could be that this downward spiral was and upward spiral; there's something about the God that is present in absence that is very powerful and instructive. Jews in particular have a special sense of this.

I really think God was watching me paddle around in my own little pity pool and finally decided enough. He had me watch a Marine Corps friend of mine fall 60 feet to his death from a tree in my backyard. The message that came to me in this was: while I was complaining about the pathetic inconvienient circumstances in my life, I wasn't witnessing to this friend and he may be in eternal damnation now.

Sorry you had to see that! And I won't question what you took from it. But do really think your friend would be damned if he didn't accept jesus? i'd only suggest that many non-evangelical theologians have a lot to say about other ways to come to christ and what happens if you don't. This may ease your heart, and it also might be true too!

Since that time, I have lost two beautiful Christian wives. One to cancer, the other to a heart attack. I accepted God's will in their deaths and praised him for allowing me to experience and serve these two godly women. Each of their deaths though brought tremendous issues from their families to the point that they no longer speak to me, including my stepchildren from my wives previous marriages. These are lingering issues that trouble me from time to time. There is really nothing I can do about it anymore. Attempts to contact the children (adults) go unanswered. The children have at one time in their lives, professed Christ as their savior.

My heart goes out to you. I nealry lost my beloved wife, my utter soul mate, a few years ago to a heart attack at a young age (33). And I am estranged from a few family members. I have a sense of your pain and send my love to you.

I guess I could say I wrestle with God on these issues, but knowing I'm way out of my weight class. {quote]
Again, wrestling with God may be a good thing. Jews sure think so.

I know I'm never justified in my troubled times, but I'm sure that God understands my weakness and provides guidance for me to recover. It doesn't necessarily mean that I follow the guidance, but I know its there.
I think it's a matter of maturity in Christ to understand our situations and be able to trust it to God to carry and resolve. I reflect on how I appear to other Christians in my struggles, through my comments, my prayer requests and my actions.

You'll find that I'm sort of the ultra-liberal around here (although i am a seminary grad and more respectful of orthodoxy than people tend to think), so we'll probably differ on a lot theologically. But you seem like a really good guy and I am glad you are here. You might find that we are long on debate and short on simple love and support. Indeed, it makes me think we should have a subforum specifically for spiritual counsel and support, no debate allowed. Perhaps you have just gifted us with that idea.
All the best to you.

[EasternSP]

Hi guys.
I'm new to the forum here and appreciate the opportunity to come into the Holy Huddle Room.

Sorry you had to see that! And I won't question what you took from it. But do really think your friend would be damned if he didn't accept jesus? i'd only suggest that many non-evangelical theologians have a lot to say about other ways to come to christ and what happens if you don't. This may ease your heart, and it also might be true too!

I guess I could say I wrestle with God on these issues, but knowing I'm way out of my weight class. {quote]
Again, wrestling with God may be a good thing. Jews sure think so.

Thanks Slope for your encouraging words.
Actually, what I meant there about my friends death wasn't so much that I might have been the person to lead my friend to Christ so much as I didn't even take time out from my little snit to witness to him. I've long since found closure in that through Christ but reflect on it in consideration of each of my friends.

Good idea on the spiritual counsel and support forum. I would support it.

[Angel]

Well, here's a list of doubts and troubles that I've experienced and I'm sure others have also about Christianity.

1) Extended Periods of Grief, such as losing a loved one.

2) Ephermeral Moments of Anger and Hostility toward God: I tend to have these a lot. For example, I remember a particular moment a couple years back where I was compounded with stress from different situations and I directed my anger towards God in the form of "Why didn't you prevent this from happening." The situation was trivial, the cities power went out on a hot California day and shut down my computer before I saved my work and I couldn't leave the house because my garage is electrically powered. But I remember clearly the anger I felt towards God, and how I was basically pissed that he would allow this to happen.

3) Experiences of suffering, whether it be medically related or related to some other area.

Questions for discussion:

Do you ever doubt or wrestle with God? If so, how do you deal with this and could you provide any specific example?

I've had doubts about God's existence before, but they were momentary and nothing that stayed with me long enough to bother me or shake my faith. I may be at a little advantage, but how I've dealt with the doubts is by recalling my supernatural experiences that I had as a child and into some of my teenage years. I suppose the experiences that others tell me about helps since I can relate to them from personal experience.

In general though, I believe what can help is to have an eternal perspective and perhaps dealing with an anger problem. When it comes to an eternal perspective, that would cover your number points #1 and 3 in the opening post. The suffering is temporary, and that would pale in comparision to the next life. In a sense, this entire life may just be like a training camp or a learning process for us to go through and persevere. This, I would apply when I reach an old age and look back at all the troubles I had in life and I'd even apply it to some troubles in the present. Other troubles like losing a tv remote, is not worth meditating on from the perspective I mentioned, but that's just me.

When it comes to anger, I used to get angry a lot being raised by a step-dad I did not like at all. So that developed into an anger problem sometimes. One pattern I noticed though is that when I got angry a lot, I would look for someone or something to blame or want to take my anger out on someone. Thankfully, with self-intropsection of my life and God's help I've overcome that anger 'problem'. When I look back at my angry moments stemming from my anger problem (being angry too much or to an unhealthy extent?) I was like a different person. Anyways, I think this applies to your #2 point. It's one of many typical reactions from anger, to blame or look for someone to take it out on (God, parents, a spouse, life in general) just to justify your anger, or vent, or seek revenge in a sense.

Do you consdier these doubts justified? Are we ever justified in questioning, doubting or displaying anger and frustration with God?

Are the doubts justified but that shouldn't necessarily lead to anger. In fact, due to the unreasonable nature and sometimes reactions of anger or from anger, I'd question any doubts that arise from that emotion. Is the anger justified, not if it's beyond righteous anger. If the anger causes you to sin or drag your life down, then no.

Questioning God based on intellectual reasons?
I've done that and it only shifted me from being a theist to being an agnostic theist. It has also led me to distinguish tradition from reality wherever I can, like by realizing that the Bible does indeed contain errors. But I still hold to a core of what I feel are fundamental to my Christian belief, mainly Jesus' life and teachings, God's nature, my supernatural experiences, and the next life. I've never had doubts beyond this or have even felt like I wanted to abandon my belief in God altogether, maybe just some aspects, at most.

[Angel]

Correction to my last view about your point #2 in the OP...

I shouldn't say you had an anger problem off of just ONE bad day. I believe if anger was involved, then one bout of it can cause some of the issues I mentioned to a degree.

[Slopeshoulder]

Questions for discussion:

Do you ever doubt or wrestle with God?

You betcha. But less so. My doubts are more intellectual. I think I'm pretty committed to a lived faith through thick and thin. It's 99.9999999% unshakable, although as it deepens it also takes different forms and broadens. Themes and conscience and transformation become more important than bible verses, laws, and doctrines. Once we learn the territory and call it our home we can set aside the map. This has made my faith stronger, not weaker. I'll never go atheist.

If so, how do you deal with this and could you provide any specific example?

Examples:
- my brother's death
- my wife's near death
- my father's unspeakable illness
- donald trump's existence
- the beatle's break up
- the human condition
- the poor witness of religion in the spirit of many who proclaim it
- decay, loss, age, illness, vanity of vanity, waste

How I deal with it:
- A core orientation of mine is that the heart and conscience are supreme, and given the existence of longing, love, hope, faith, creativity, wonder, and consciousness, the idea of an empty universe is obscene to me. In the end it's a moral, aesthetic, and romantic driver: life without god can be fine, but a universe without god is obscene. IMO.
- the healthiest, happiest, most sublime, most directed, and most rewarding thing I know is the life and community of religion at its best. So there's something to it. My faith abides. The alternative would likely lead me to depression, neausea, ennui.
But I don't get too uptight about the form of religion. Jesus is Lord, Atman is Brahmin, etc, it's all good.

Do you consdier these doubts justified? Are we ever justified in questioning, doubting or displaying anger and frustration with God?

Yes!! The Jews got it right. But as I said in another thread today, many Christians also have spoken of the God that is present in absence, seen in darkness, heard in silence, and experienced as joy though pain (learning from the Jews, those are Jewish ideas, themes, and experiences).

Great thread BTW. Thanks for starting it and being so honest. Your wisdom groweth.