Switching Sides

What would you do if?

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LightInADarkWorld
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Switching Sides

Post #1

Post by LightInADarkWorld »

I guess this one is aimed more at christians such as myself but i'd love any input i could get. If a friend of yours went from being a theist to a non-theist how would you react? Would you try to change their mind by preaching that they shall burn in hell forever? Or would you think that every person has the right to believe what they want and that by trying to force them to change you would be doing wrong?

I would do a question for athiests to theists but it just isn't the same.

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melodious
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Post #2

Post by melodious »

LightInADarkWorld wrote:If a friend of yours went from being a theist to a non-theist how would you react?
Not in complete shock, that's for sure. Because it is so common for people today to change beliefs like they change their close - and, I'll add, there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, in some ways it's good.

I hate to start siting astrology here (because you're never quite sure what someone thinks about it - you know, theist or non-theist, either way), but, in truth, it has a lot to do with it. There are what's called modalities in astrology which correspond to the mystical nature of the number 3 in the universe: cardinal (dynamic/initiating - Aries, Cancer, Libra, Capricorn), fixed (stable/enduring - Taurus, Leo, Scorpio, Aquarius), and mutable (alternating/changing - Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius, Pisces).

What I'm basically saying is that everyone has their own nature, and that some people stick with one set of beliefs and never change, while others experiment with the psyche and explore avenues that lead to change. Again, another type would be the one who initiates a religion or new philosophy, yet could see it through to the end or not, depending on the other (fixed or mutable) influences that are present in the natal chart. Sorry. Maybe you weren't expecting all that. It is a bit much, but I assure you, truth lies within it.
LightInADarkWorld wrote:Would you try to change their mind by preaching that they shall burn in hell forever? Or would you think that every person has the right to believe what they want and that by trying to force them to change you would be doing wrong?
This question is, essentially, answered above - IMO. However, to further elaborate, fear is always a powerful tool to subjugate a person's will and spirit. You can tell them myriad of things to bend them to your will - or I suppose in a religionist's case, to "save" their soul - but in the end, are they truly following their own heart, and are they being true thyself? As Joseph Campbell once said, "Follow your bliss." I have a bumper sticker with that quote (only one on my car too), and I firmly live by it and let live by it (within humane reason, of course).

You see, my father tried the "hell-fire, and brimstone" tactics on me when I was young, and then, when he got exhausted, he would send his mother in with the "gentle Jesus/God of love" antics. None of it worked... and honestly, I loved God! It was all over the stupid Literalist disney-like rite of baptism that Christians hold so cherished yet fearfully. I have nothing against spiritual rituals and initiations now or then; however, it is the superstition behind the fundamentalist mindset that has always disturbed me. It is your, belief, perspective, and interpretation of such things that creates your own reality and understanding of it.

To this very day I have never been baptized in a church, and I'm proud of it, because the vulgar and unspiritual churches do not deserve to baptize me, nor do they have any spiritual authority over me. As a Gnostic I have been self-liberated by my inner seeking of the fiery intelligence of the holy spirit, and drawing down my neshamah (holy soul) so that I might journey upon the Path of Christ Consciousness, I receive and impart Gnosis to this world and those beyond. This my Truth - This is my Faith. I need not qualification nor membership to be part of the Fellowship of the Mother Spirit (Wisdom) and Immortal Christ (Word) of the Transcendent Father. Amen.

Thanks for inspiring this post. Remember: "Light was in darkness and darkness did not master it." - Gospel of the Beloved (better known as John, but was originally referring to Mary Magadalene and later changed by the patriarchal church)
Now some of you may encounter the devils bargain if you get that far. Any old soul is worth saving at least to a priest, but not every soul is worth buying. So you can take the offer as a compliment.
- William S. Burroughs


There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over. - Frank Zappa

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melodious
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apology for poor editing

Post #3

Post by melodious »

melodious wrote:Not in complete shock, that's for sure. Because it is so common for people today to change beliefs like they change their close - and, I'll add, there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, in some ways it's good.
Sorry for the horrible editing, LightInADarkWorld. I usually am not that careless. I must have been stoned or pressed for time. Actually... yea, I was - I remember - stoned and pressed for time.#-o

Also, "siting" should be citing, and "Magadalene" spelled Magdalene. Again, sorry, but all in all it was a good post and I hope you got something from it.

Beto

Re: Switching Sides

Post #4

Post by Beto »

LightInADarkWorld wrote:I would do a question for athiests to theists but it just isn't the same.
Than I would ask you why it isn't the same, and if the answer isn't relevant to the reversed question.

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Post #5

Post by melodious »

LightInADarkWorld wrote:I would do a question for athiests to theists but it just isn't the same.
Beto wrote:Then I would ask you why it isn't the same, and if the answer isn't relevant to the reversed question?
I would propose that it is because Christians are very sensitive about their religion and worry about the salvation of others they love, where atheists are not concerned about their loved ones' "souls," only the rationality of their minds. I see your point in some ways, but I also understand what he was saying. :|

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Re: Switching Sides

Post #6

Post by faith »

I am not sure that any believer believes due to hell being a threat.
Is that why you believe?
:-k
LightInADarkWorld wrote:I guess this one is aimed more at christians such as myself but i'd love any input i could get. If a friend of yours went from being a theist to a non-theist how would you react? Would you try to change their mind by preaching that they shall burn in hell forever? Or would you think that every person has the right to believe what they want and that by trying to force them to change you would be doing wrong?

I would do a question for athiests to theists but it just isn't the same.
I believe God doesn't let go of anyone who belongs to him.
They can choose to go their own way and usually it is because of something pulling them in another direction.
Knowing and believing as I do. I would not worry about them. I would pray for them and trust them into Gods care.

You can only continue to love them and pray for them.
But don't add extra pressure. The lost son may come home on his own.

Faith. xx :)

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Re: Switching Sides

Post #7

Post by Adstar »

LightInADarkWorld wrote:I guess this one is aimed more at christians such as myself but i'd love any input i could get. If a friend of yours went from being a theist to a non-theist how would you react? Would you try to change their mind by preaching that they shall burn in hell forever? Or would you think that every person has the right to believe what they want and that by trying to force them to change you would be doing wrong?

I would do a question for athiests to theists but it just isn't the same.
If you loved them then you would seek to understand their thoughts as to why they had become non-theist. If you loved them you would want to do your best to given them a message that would move them to believe Jesus.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

salvation2011
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Re: Switching Sides

Post #8

Post by salvation2011 »

Adstar wrote:
LightInADarkWorld wrote:I guess this one is aimed more at christians such as myself but i'd love any input i could get. If a friend of yours went from being a theist to a non-theist how would you react? Would you try to change their mind by preaching that they shall burn in hell forever? Or would you think that every person has the right to believe what they want and that by trying to force them to change you would be doing wrong?

I would do a question for athiests to theists but it just isn't the same.
If you loved them then you would seek to understand their thoughts as to why they had become non-theist. If you loved them you would want to do your best to given them a message that would move them to believe Jesus.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
If you love them, then you would seek to understand their change and accept it as their decision. It is written in NT scripture to let everyone lead his own path. Many Christians I know would try to convince such a person to switch back to Jesus, others of them would not say anything aloud but inwardly believe that person is going to burn in hell, others would outwardly state that person is going to burn in hell. I think it goes along the lines of the gnostic responder that wrote about the different tendencies of people. If you are a Christian though, there is some ambiguity of translation of how you are to behave, so I think that is another reason for different responses within the theist/Christian community. SOme say do good to others while others say all you need to do is believe in Jesus dying for our sins, others think you follow the 10 commandments and Jesus and others think that Jesus abolished the need for the 10 commandments.

I guess my point is that it is in part your nature and part what you believe the translation of the NT text (since we are talking about theist talking to a newly non-theist) to mean for your life.
Let those who have ears hear, those discerning ones will see the truth, not what the world wants them to see as "truth." Let your biases go so you can truly hear the word of God...

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Re: Switching Sides

Post #9

Post by Adstar »

salvation2011 wrote:
Adstar wrote:
LightInADarkWorld wrote:I guess this one is aimed more at christians such as myself but i'd love any input i could get. If a friend of yours went from being a theist to a non-theist how would you react? Would you try to change their mind by preaching that they shall burn in hell forever? Or would you think that every person has the right to believe what they want and that by trying to force them to change you would be doing wrong?

I would do a question for athiests to theists but it just isn't the same.
If you loved them then you would seek to understand their thoughts as to why they had become non-theist. If you loved them you would want to do your best to given them a message that would move them to believe Jesus.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
If you love them, then you would seek to understand their change and accept it as their decision.
Yes you would definitely seek to understand why they made the change. But as a believer you would never accept such a decision as being good.

It is written in NT scripture to let everyone lead his own path.
This never precludes people from giving their input to give the other person more knowledge to base their decision on.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

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Kuan
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Post #10

Post by Kuan »

Definetley the second one. Its even in the constitution of the US. Freedom of Religion is one of the most important things in history. If they eft they probably had a good reason and if you want to keep a friendship with the person, respect them. Changing your beleifs is no easy task and is major life change. Unless your atheist/agnostic. It seems it would be easy to switch it up...(IDK...another thread?)

Am I making any sense?
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