debating

[Mattevt]

I became a Christian when I was a little kid. I grew up in a very Christian home, I went to Church every Sunday etc. I accepted Christ as my savior early on and I lived a pretty good life. Recently however I've been questioning my faith. I'm in college, and as many of you know college is a difficult place to defend your faith at.

Anyways, I've been hearing from all angles that Christianity defies logic, and I dismissed it at first as people who just "didn't know" and "couldn't understand". But lately I've been thinking about it and it's starting to hurt my mind. I've always believed whole-heartedly in Creationism, because I saw all the flaws in Evolution. But people continue to point out, and I've noticed that creationism seems to "defy" logic. This, along with the catholic church saying that not everything in the bible is "exact truth", just...get's me thinking.

I know I'm rambling, and possibly not making much sense, but for those with an inkling of what I'm saying, I'm a very struggling Christian, and would appreciate any advice.

[Chad]

I believe the best thing to do is start reading about it. Take books from each side and start reading some articles about it (Evolution and Creationism). How would you be able to make a good decision if you weren't at least educated a bit on the subject? I would suggest The Blind Watchmaker by Richard Dawkins as a great starting book for evolution. I'm not to sure what to suggest for creationism though!

It's definitely a good thing to question something such as religious faith. Believing something to be the truth with absolutely no good evidence, and often evidence to the contrary, can be a dangerous thing. Keep on questioning.

[bernee51]

I became a Christian when I was a little kid. I grew up in a very Christian home, I went to Church every Sunday etc. I accepted Christ as my savior early on and I lived a pretty good life. Recently however I've been questioning my faith. I'm in college, and as many of you know college is a difficult place to defend your faith at.

Anyways, I've been hearing from all angles that Christianity defies logic, and I dismissed it at first as people who just "didn't know" and "couldn't understand". But lately I've been thinking about it and it's starting to hurt my mind. I've always believed whole-heartedly in Creationism, because I saw all the flaws in Evolution. But people continue to point out, and I've noticed that creationism seems to "defy" logic. This, along with the catholic church saying that not everything in the bible is "exact truth", just...get's me thinking.

I know I'm rambling, and possibly not making much sense, but for those with an inkling of what I'm saying, I'm a very struggling Christian, and would appreciate any advice.

This is wonderful news my friend. Your journey is beginning. As Chad said, read then read some more.

Believe nothing because a wise man said it.
Believe nothing because it is generally held.
Believe nothing because it is written.
Believe nothing because it is said to be divine.
Believe nothing because someone else believes it.
But believe only what you yourself judge to be true.
~ Buddha

[Mattevt]

[quote="bernee51]

Believe nothing because a wise man said it.
Believe nothing because it is generally held.
Believe nothing because it is written.
Believe nothing because it is said to be divine.
Believe nothing because someone else believes it.
But believe only what you yourself judge to be true.
~ Buddha[/quote]

Thanks for that, I guess it's time to do some research, any suggested readings would be welcomed.

[bernee51]

Thanks for that, I guess it's time to do some research, any suggested readings would be welcomed.

If you really wan't to go down a path of knowledge start with the Essential Ken Wilber.

[Bugmaster]

I'd go with Carl Sagan's A Demon-Haunted World. It doesn't just talk about Christianity specifically, but it does deal with critical thinking in general.

Another set of books (that no one suggested so far, oddly enough), would be mythology books. Babylonian myths (Enuma Elish is the starting place, even though it's kind of boring), Native American stories, Egyptian lore, ye olde Greek myths, stuff like that. It's amazing how similar all the stories are. Most Christians I talk to never even begin to imagine that their own stories might not be unique, so reading other people's myths could be a kind of revelation.

On the fictional side, I'd recommend Terry Pratchett (Small Gods, Bromeliad, Good Omens with Neil Gaiman), and some stories from The Cyberiad, by Stanislaw Lem. Both of these authors are extremely funny, but the ethical questions that Lem poses are quite a bit more severe than Pratchett's take on them... well, maybe I'm biased, I don't know.

On the visual side, I'd recommend the movie Dogma, and, oddly enough, the latest season of Stargate SG-1, where humans go up against something that's remarkably similar to the Old Testament God. Chilling.

[Bugmaster]

Oh yeah... and if you're seriously considering that Creationism might be true, you could always read the talk.origins FAQ. They cover pretty much everything that I could say on the subject, only better.

[harvey1]

...but for those with an inkling of what I'm saying, I'm a very struggling Christian, and would appreciate any advice.

Wow, I can see the saliva bursting out of the mouth of some of my skeptic friends. In any case, I think you ought to give Christ as much of your devotion to him as Christ has shown to you. What that means is that as a Christian you have to take your Christian faith seriously, and pursue this subject with great earnest--leaving no stone unturned. In fairness to the skeptic position, if it is the truth, then all Christians are bound to believe the truth regardless of consequence. That is what it means to be a Christian, in my book.

But, of course, there is the little matter of what is the truth. As an introduction, I would recommend Reason for the Hope Within. It is basic Christian apologetics, and will take you from the Christianity that you know to the Christianity as Christian philosophers have seen as a reason to believe.

If you don't have the money, and you are pretty smart, then I suggest that you spend some good quality time at William Lane Craig's website. Craig usually crushes every atheist he debates, and after a few paragraphs you'll see why.

Good luck on your journey, whereever that takes you. I just hope that the love of Christ is in you...

[trencacloscas]

I became a Christian when I was a little kid. I grew up in a very Christian home, I went to Church every Sunday etc. I accepted Christ as my savior early on and I lived a pretty good life. Recently however I've been questioning my faith. I'm in college, and as many of you know college is a difficult place to defend your faith at.

Welcome to enlightment! For doubt is the cornerstone of knowledge.
Your story reminds mine a lot, my deconversion started with a small, almost imperceptible crack in the facade. Now the whole building crumbled to the ground and light entered my life with full force, now I know religion is a lie, and Christianity the biggest lie of them all.

Certainly many books helped me along the road to get rid of the superstition, but many of them perhaps more at a personal level. I would only recommend one universal enough to help anyone to the next level. It is a book that doesn't talk about religion directly, but destroys preconceptions and opens new horizons: Carl Sagan's "The Dragons Of Eden"

Good luck in your journey. Remember: truth may be bitter, but in the end, it's truth.

[the super]

Mattevt:

I think what you are starting to go through is exactly what I went through. I accepted Jesus early in life and truly believed in God and Jesus, because of things I experienced in my life, and an “inner recognition” of God.

When I started college, I met many atheists and agnostics who challenged me with questions I never thought of before. So my entire freshman and sophomore year, I was constantly in thought about God and reality, especially through my philosophy courses (I eventually earned a philosophy minor and biology major).

I was filled with doubts because it was the first year I faced all those questions. At several points I asked myself whether or not I even believed in God anymore. I had not, at that time, worked my way through all the arguments, so I could not rely on either science or philosophy to support or disprove God’s existence. I basically could not appeal to either for an answer.

But even without any scientific data or philosophical reasoning, my answer was always yes. I still believed in God. I still had that true “inner recognition” of God that I had as a child. Faith in God is not blind belief, or belief without reason or evidence. The “sense of God” and my “gut” was crying out that God is real, that morality is not subjective, and that Jesus died for my sin. That was the evidence for my belief in God at that time. It was not simply a preference that I had, nor was it a conclusion that I drew intellectually.

I think this makes sense. If God really wants us to know him and believe in him, I doubt he would have only allowed us to know him by studying science or philosophy. For one thing, many people lack the time/ability to engage in both, through no fault of their own. People who are working 2 jobs or live difficult lives really will not have the leisure time to study science and philosophy. People who are of low intelligence or somewhat mentally handicapped would not have the full usage of their cognitive abilities. Besides, the current development of science and philosophy has only occurred in the past 300-400 years, so that would leave everyone else throughout history in total ignorance. It makes sense to me that God would not save himself just for the small segment of society that could work through the highest levels of science and philosophy, but instead would give a simpler route everyone could follow. I do not doubt that science and philosophy can also point clearly to God, but they are not the only ways.

Empirical evidence, science, and philosophy can give you support for Christianity, and can strengthen your belief. So I agree with many of the people here, that questions are good. I myself constantly search for answers to everything I can. However, I very confident that the best way to know about God is to come into contact with him yourself.

By the way, over the years, I have found not only “solutions” to all my questions, but I have found that the scientific evidence and philosophical reasoning both very strongly establish the truth of God’s existence. I figured that if God were real, then science and philosophy should most likely demonstrate that to some extent, so I asked God to show me these things, and over time I definitely received. You will obviously have to work through the evidence and reasoning for yourself to see if it makes intellectual sense for you. However, I would urge you not to dismiss the importance of that “simple” recognition of God. I would also urge you to ask God to help you really understand the science and philosophy.

Also, just so you know, there are different versions of Creationism. I do not think evolution is opposed to Christianity. In the past, The Church and others have made interpretations of Genesis based on the current thoughts and knowledge about the world. Today, some of those interpretations are inadequate, because we have new information from science. Disproving the interpretations made in the past does not disprove the bible. The key issue is to look at the bible itself, and interpret the text with the new information we have. I can discuss this more if you’re interested, but will stop here….I’ve already written a ton.