What is New Atheism?

Getting to know more about a specific belief

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Jester
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What is New Atheism?

Post #1

Post by Jester »

How might the beliefs of Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Dennett, and their supporters be defined, as distinct from other forms of atheism?

I'll post some thoughts in the first response for discussion.
We must continually ask ourselves whether victory has become more central to our goals than truth.

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McCulloch
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Post #31

Post by McCulloch »

I agree with Jester that many, if not most, of the New Atheists have a blind spot for the progressive and liberal forms of religion.


McCulloch wrote: Are your ethics rooted in gratitude rather than fear? I suppose that is a step forward. But it is still centered on self. "I have been given so much by the god, so in gratitude, I will behave as he desires me to." To me, ethics is the art of transcending self. "I don't matter any more than the others, so I will behave as if what is good for us is more important that what is good for me."
Jester wrote: You are certainly free to whatever position you'd like, but I don't see that gratitude is a selfish motivator.
First, I don't see why it entails in the slightest that one matters more than others - or has even been given more than others. Personally, the more grateful I feel, the less interested I am in such comparisons.
Second, any fair interpretation of gratitude isn't "I have been given", but "I/we have been given". Gratitude is, by its very nature, a focusing on someone else; it is anything but selfish. I don't see any reason why your statement of ethics can't fit perfectly well within my concept of gratitude.
In fact, I personally don't see what motivation you intend here. A sense of duty, if one is not grateful, tends to be rooted in pride (which is much more selfish).
Gratitude is a reaction contingent on some good act being done to you or to someone you care about. To me ethics is not dependent on a prior good act. But ethics stem not from duty but from the realization that none of us are more important than the others of us.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Post #32

Post by kowalskil »

... To me ethics is not dependent on a prior good act. But ethics stem not from duty but from the realization that none of us are more important than the others of us.
How can one disagree with this good description?

Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia)
.
Ludwik Kowalski, the author of “Diary of a Former Communist: Thoughts, Feelings, Reality,� at

            http://csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/life/intro.html

This testimony is based on a diary I kept between 1946 and 2004 (in the USSR, Poland, France and the USA).

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Post #33

Post by Jester »

Greetings once again!
McCulloch wrote:I agree with Jester that many, if not most, of the New Atheists have a blind spot for the progressive and liberal forms of religion.
They do seem, in many ways, to be the reflection of the fundamentalist Christians - who have a blind spot for compassionate and ethical atheists.
McCulloch wrote:Gratitude is a reaction contingent on some good act being done to you or to someone you care about. To me ethics is not dependent on a prior good act. But ethics stem not from duty but from the realization that none of us are more important than the others of us.
While I make no claim of having all the answers, I would point out that existing in the first place is the "contingency" of my sense of gratitude. This does not seem to me to be limiting to my reaction.

In contrast, I personally don't see that believing that humans are equally important gives one a motivation for ethics. A given individual's reason for action could easily be guilt for having more than others, pride in magnanimously helping the poor, or even the chance to "prove" that one is better than those who do not help.

While I don't rule out other, more positive, drive behind such ethics (such as gratitude), a purely intellectual position is not itself a motivator.
We must continually ask ourselves whether victory has become more central to our goals than truth.

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