AN IMPORTANT QUESTION!

Getting to know more about a specific belief

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McCulloch
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Re: Find the Bestest

Post #21

Post by McCulloch »

Yusef wrote: Have you ever seen a Moslim who has been converted??
I've met a few.
Yusef wrote: So you could not convert me, because I'm a Muslim, and a Muslim never convert to any religions.
I agree. No one can convert you. You must look at the facts and the evidence openly and critically. Unless you are honest and critical of your own beliefs, you will never change, grow or learn anything new. The admission of our own ignorance is the beginning of wisdom, because those who believe that they already have the truth are not motivated to seek it.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Yusef
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this is a good subject

Post #22

Post by Yusef »

Burninglight wrote:
...Christians knew more about it than them or than what is documented in the Quran or Sunnah. Allah implied that the three are the Father, Mary and the son, because he says don't say three, and he also questions Jesus asking "Did you say take your mother and yourself as two Gods besides me?"
Okay! Thank you, Well, It's an example for a good subject for a discussion without childish!
1- How you know that in the times of the past there wasn't this belief among Christians??
2- Shi'eh says the full original Qor'an isn't same this! and just has discrepancy with the order between their verses
3- If even there was the trinity in the Qor'an, then I do deny Qor'an!!!
4- For more information I've told and will write now here in same this website about that
Shi'eh Vs Sonnah
What is your target really?
I assume your beliefs are the better! Well, be soldier of God and convert me. By your own reasonings also tell me my wrong beliefs and why..>> :study:

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Yusef
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a follower of the wisdom and logic

Post #23

Post by Yusef »

I don't say I'm an advocate of Shi'eh because of my own parental religion!
I told here that I'm a follower of the wisdom and the logic.
so I'm an advocate of Shi'eh, because its doctrine has the nearest beliefs to my own logic and wisdom
About these:
Divinities, Bada', Taghiyeh, The Savior, and more...
Also I never say that all the people of Judaism, Christianity, Islam are real followers of them.
but I discovered "Shi'eh" is the real Islam, and Islam is the real Judaism and Christianity.
I assume your beliefs are the better! Well, be soldier of God and convert me. By your own reasonings also tell me my wrong beliefs and why..>> :study:

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Re: a follower of the wisdom and logic

Post #24

Post by Burninglight »

Yusef wrote:I don't say I'm an advocate of Shi'eh because of my own parental religion!
I told here that I'm a follower of the wisdom and the logic.
so I'm an advocate of Shi'eh, because its doctrine has the nearest beliefs to my own logic and wisdom
About these:
Divinities, Bada', Taghiyeh, The Savior, and more...
Also I never say that all the people of Judaism, Christianity, Islam are real followers of them.
but I discovered "Shi'eh" is the real Islam, and Islam is the real Judaism and Christianity.
Even though these two great religion share the same prophets with the exception of Muhammad. Islam and Christianity are mutually exclusive and never the twain shall meet. It is all because they cannot see who Jesus is. Don't don't realize that Jesus is "The truth, Life and the Way" Jesus didn't say I show you the way. They cannot see that there is no other way to be justified and made right with God unless it is through Christ. God is just and no unjust person or sinner will ever be good enough; Only Jesus is good enough to make us good enough. If we don't have Christ, we are on our own favor and merit. The road to hell is paved with those who are sincere and full of good intentions! Any one who makes logic or reason their god will lose in the end by dying in their sin!

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Yusef
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Logical reasoning > Blindly dogma

Post #25

Post by Yusef »

You believe the trinity just because your parent was Christian and you dogmatically believe that because of existing that in modern gospel.
but the wisdom and logic told me that there is God, He is never matterial and visible. And I had thought all the people accepted that! and I never knew there is/are some religions that disagree that!!!
Never anyone is not a wise person when believes the trinity!
For these reasons I'm an advocate of Shi'eh.

The doctrine of Shi'eh tells us: everyone mightn't commentate the holy books[Towrat,Zabur,Enjil,Qoran]
Imam Ali(a.s) said: "The Verses of Qor'an each of them have up to 70 meanings!"

The All--->Encoder--->Qor'an
Qor'an--->Decoder--->Hadiths
Hadiths--->Detector--->The Truth
The Truth--->Behaviour--->The Evolution

The Encoder is same God,
Qor'an is same original OT/NT,
The Decoder is same The Prophets and The Imams,
The Detector is same Scholars, and or anyone who clears himself from sins:
Jealousy, Lie, Arrogance...

For example:
...And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee; behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; Twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
[Torah/Barshit/17:20]
** This had been done, but its target was for The Twelver(a.s), The Children of The Prophet Mohammad(s.a)!

Also:
[A Psalm] of Solomon. Give the king Thy judgments, O God, and Thy righteousness unto the king's son;
2 That he may judge Thy people with righteousness, and Thy poor with justice...

[Zabur/72]
** This had been done for Prophet Dawud(a.s) and his son, Solayman(a.s),
but its target was for The Prophet Mohammad(s.a) and his son, The Imam Mahdi(a.s)!
I assume your beliefs are the better! Well, be soldier of God and convert me. By your own reasonings also tell me my wrong beliefs and why..>> :study:

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The Akher-e-Zaman

Post #26

Post by Yusef »

Imam Ali(a.s) said:
"There are everythings in Qor'an from the begin to the end of the world!"

Another example:
--- Transliteration:
"...Afaamina allatheena makaroo assayyi-atian yakhsifa Allahu bihimu al-arda aw ya/tiyahumualAAathabu min haythu la yashAAuroon..."
--- Translate:
"...Then, do those who have planned evil deeds feel secure that Allah will not cause the earth to swallow them or that the punishment will not come upon them from where they do not perceive?..."
[Qor'an/16:45]
---------------------
The Imam 5th, about the commentary of this verse said:
This is for "Akhere-Zzaman" [The times and a few years before of the Savior(a.s)], When the army of Sofiyani will do attack to the Savior's army, then an Angel pounds on the earth of the "Bayda' desert" and the earth cleaves and devours the Sofyani's army!

For another important example, look at the thread of:
The Anti-Christ
I assume your beliefs are the better! Well, be soldier of God and convert me. By your own reasonings also tell me my wrong beliefs and why..>> :study:

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The problem is Islam's Allah not you

Post #27

Post by Burninglight »

"Some English translations of the Qur'an are simply amazing. At times, they are so far removed from the actual meaning of the Qur'an that they actually say the very opposite of the Arabic original. In this short article I want to point out the mistranslation of one particularly troubling verse. The following transliteration and all translations cited here are taken from this Muslim website.

The passage in S. 3:52-55 is important for the discussions between Christians and Muslims because it makes claims about the life and death of Jesus, or rather that he did not die as the Bible reports. In other words, it is a passage that is part of the Qur'an's denial of the crucifixion of Jesus. The Qur'an claims that what ultimately happened was a scheme or deception devised by God. This has enormous moral and theological implications. Before touching on some of these implications, I want to point out how various Muslim translations deal with this particular passage. Let's first cite a transliteration and a literal translation of S. 3:54.

Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru almakireena

And they cheated/deceived and God cheated/deceived, and God (is) the best (of) the cheaters/deceivers.

Note that the above translation is given by a Muslim!

There is no doubt that makr means deception, scheming, but looking at most Muslim translations, we see that this meaning is totally lost when they say Allah is the best of planners." That is a dishonest translation.

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Islam's Allah is the problem

Post #28

Post by Burninglight »

I am trying to get you to ssee that Allah is the best of deceivers. "Some English translations of the Qur'an are simply amazing. At times, they are so far removed from the actual meaning of the Qur'an that they actually say the very opposite of the Arabic original. In this short article I want to point out the mistranslation of one particularly troubling verse. The following transliteration and all translations cited here are taken from this Muslim website.

The passage in S. 3:52-55 is important for the discussions between Christians and Muslims because it makes claims about the life and death of Jesus, or rather that he did not die as the Bible reports. In other words, it is a passage that is part of the Qur'an's denial of the crucifixion of Jesus. The Qur'an claims that what ultimately happened was a scheme or deception devised by God. This has enormous moral and theological implications. Before touching on some of these implications, I want to point out how various Muslim translations deal with this particular passage. Let's first cite a transliteration and a literal translation of S. 3:54.

Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru almakireena

And they cheated/deceived and God cheated/deceived, and God (is) the best (of) the cheaters/deceivers.

Note that the above translation is given by a Muslim!!!!

Now notice how it is twisted below:

There is no doubt that makr means deception, scheming, but looking at most Muslim translations, we see that this meaning is totally lost when it using the word planners. And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers. And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah. And they planned and Allah (also) planned, and Allah is the best of planners. And (the Jews) planned and Allah (also) planned. And Allah is the best of planners. The unbelievers among the children of Israel plotted against Jesus and Allah also devised a plan to raise him up, and Allah is the best in planning."

These all are dishonest translations.


Even Abu Bakr said: "I wouldn't trust the Makr of Allah if I had one foot in paradise and one on earth." Allah is a cheater and deceiver. The Bible calls Satan the father of lies. In the Quran, even the father of lies calls Islam's Allah a deceiver by accusing Allah of deceiving him.

Friend, I could never trust Allah the deceiver, and he is the best at it. He will promise me everything and give me nothing, because only the true God has power to grant us paradise and not someone who is doing an amazing job impersonating the one and ony true God.

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the commentaries

Post #29

Post by Yusef »

Burninglight wrote:...Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru almakireena

And they cheated/deceived and God cheated/deceived, and God (is) the best (of) the cheaters/deceivers.
This translate is true..
..and wrote:...There is no doubt that makr means deception, scheming
Yes. "Makr" means "Deception", and "Makkar" means "Foxy"
..and wrote:...but looking at most Muslim translations, we see that this meaning is totally lost when it using the word planners. And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers. And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah. And they planned and Allah (also) planned, and Allah is the best of planners. And (the Jews) planned and Allah (also) planned. And Allah is the best of planners. The unbelievers among the children of Israel plotted against Jesus and Allah also devised a plan to raise him up, and Allah is the best in planning."
Yes. This is true too..
..and wrote: These all are dishonest translations.
These all are clearly very good translations.
..and wrote: Even Abu Bakr said:...
Abu Bakr?!
I'm Shi'eh, and Shi'eh just has twelve religious Leaders[The Imams(a.s)]
..and wrote:...Allah is a cheater and deceiver....
* The 6th Imam(a.s) said:
"Those who unbelieve in the cheat of God, aren't our followers[Shi'eh]"

I told you who mights decoders Qor'an!
Are you Prophet?? Are you Imam?? Are you Scholar??
You and more of the people are kind to the Bani-Esra'il [Children of Israel] who saw even the resurrection of Jesus(a.s) but didn't believe him.
and it's an actuality that if you were a Jew, never had accepted Jesus(a.s) as a messenger of God.

* The Prophets in Qor'an
* The Arrogant < Atheist
I assume your beliefs are the better! Well, be soldier of God and convert me. By your own reasonings also tell me my wrong beliefs and why..>> :study:

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Re: the commentaries

Post #30

Post by Burninglight »

Yusef wrote:
Burninglight wrote:...Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru almakireena

And they cheated/deceived and God cheated/deceived, and God (is) the best (of) the cheaters/deceivers.
This translate is true..
..and wrote:...There is no doubt that makr means deception, scheming
Yes. "Makr" means "Deception", and "Makkar" means "Foxy"
..and wrote:...but looking at most Muslim translations, we see that this meaning is totally lost when it using the word planners. And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers. And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah. And they planned and Allah (also) planned, and Allah is the best of planners. And (the Jews) planned and Allah (also) planned. And Allah is the best of planners. The unbelievers among the children of Israel plotted against Jesus and Allah also devised a plan to raise him up, and Allah is the best in planning."
Yes. This is true too..
..and wrote: These all are dishonest translations.
These all are clearly very good translations.
..and wrote: Even Abu Bakr said:...
Abu Bakr?!
I'm Shi'eh, and Shi'eh just has twelve religious Leaders[The Imams(a.s)]
..and wrote:...Allah is a cheater and deceiver....
* The 6th Imam(a.s) said:
"Those who unbelieve in the cheat of God, aren't our followers[Shi'eh]"

I told you who mights decoders Qor'an!
Are you Prophet?? Are you Imam?? Are you Scholar??
You and more of the people are kind to the Bani-Esra'il [Children of Israel] who saw even the resurrection of Jesus(a.s) but didn't believe him.
and it's an actuality that if you were a Jew, never had accepted Jesus(a.s) as a messenger of God.

* The Prophets in Qor'an
* The Arrogant < Atheist
Well, thank you for admitting that the true Abrabic translation shows that Allah is the best of Cheaters and deceivers.

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