The Gay Denomination?

Debating issues regarding sexuality

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KCKID
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Post #1201

Post by KCKID »

JohnPaul wrote: Tex wrote:
Sorry...I meant: a marriage to God. The world on the other hand, will do as it likes and always has
.
Don't you need a license of some kind to claim to speak for God with such authority? I just asked God about it and he told me you were full of BS.
Furthermore, no one can 'legally' dispute that the same God they claim speaks to them did not speak to you.

Richard81
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Post #1202

Post by Richard81 »

99, what I don't understand is why you care. Lets say your right, people of the same sex cannot get married. Therefore, it doesn't matter if they get a marriage ceremony, in the eyes of your god, there not married, so why do you care? Why not let them get a marriage ceremony and get the same legal benefits as a heterosexual couple? Let them be happy and live their lives however they want, even if their not married in the eyes of your god. Let them be legally married, even if not spirituality married. Do see what I mean?
"Faith is the attempt to coerce truth to surrender to whim. In simple terms, it is trying to breathe life into a lie by trying to outshine reality with the beauty of wishes. Faith is the refuge of fools, the ignorant, and the deluded, not of thinking, rational men." - Terry Goodkind.

99percentatheism
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Post #1203

Post by 99percentatheism »

Richard81
99, what I don't understand is why you care.
Who or what says I care about gay marriage? This is just a debate topic.

And, it's 99percentatheism. Please be polite. It would be rude of me to call you Ri.
Lets say your right,
Let's.

. . . people of the same sex cannot get married.
Who's saying that? "I" don't oppose voodoo marriages. I just don't support, condone or celebrate them.
Therefore, it doesn't matter if they get a marriage ceremony, in the eyes of your god, there not married, so why do you care?
I do care though, about the truth of scripture as it relates to gay pride and gay culture being plied "in The Church." No differently than I would if voodoo practice was defined as Christian behavior. I do very much care about my brothers and sisters IN Christ.
Why not let them get a marriage ceremony and get the same legal benefits as a heterosexual couple?
There is a lot more at stake in society than just two same gender adults mimicking a marriage of a husband and a wife. As can be seen with the Chick-fil-A issue, Christians are threatened with all sorts of nastiness because thet want to live as Christ and the disciples laid it out to live.
Let them be happy and live their lives however they want, even if their



If you read the OP, that is exactly my position. Go do your thing elsewhere and leave Christians to their rights to be Christians as they should. It is not hate, bigotry or phobic, to hold to marriage as it is ONLY defined as in the Bible. It is actualy just honesty, integrity and purity.
. . . not married in the eyes of your god.
Marriage is between a man and a woman PER the God in the Bible. Not just "my" God, but the God of truth.
Let them be legally married, even if not spirituality married. Do see what I mean?
Christians should have nothing to deal with in the warping of marriage. As voting members of a democracy, they should not support the rederfintion of marriage for any reason. That would be quite unethical to do so wouldn't it? Would you ask Christians to support voodoo practice as well?

There is far more ominous things unleashed by a special govermental stamp of approaval of same gender sex acts and same gender marriage (they are immutably linked) than the facade that covers the issue.

The Church is NOT to be exactly like the world and its ways. Heresy and apostasy are companions to that. If gay marriage happens to get "legalized" (Remember no one is outlawing gay marriage. It has never been legal.) it will be by secular forces. Then the Church has to go into defense mode like it has before to an adversarial force coming at it like a speeding train. If you notice, throughout this thread, the goal is to get into and approved by the Evangelical Church. The Conservative Evangelical Church. There is a very real reason for that. Fidelity dwells within it. Otherwise, this thread would have been five or six posts long with "HEY!, great idea," from those that do support gay culture.

There is afterall only one Church. Maybe several addresses for all the Christians to fit, but there is only way, truth and life. As my future pal Jude says: "The faith delivered ONLY ONCE to the saints."

And he urges "Contend for it!"
Last edited by 99percentatheism on Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

99percentatheism
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Post #1204

Post by 99percentatheism »

KCKID
99percentatheism wrote:
JohnPaul
99percentatheism wrote:
It's a debate topic. Like so many others. Your "who cares" routine could be played out in just about every thread invented.

Why not find some clear and direct scriptures that promote and celebrate homosexuals and homosexuality?
Or, if you want to stay in the secular realm, answer the question: Why has homosexuality been opposed for thousands of years by the majority of societies and civilizations, if homosexuality is such a standard and fine thing? It seems the very definition of a subculture.
JohnPaul:

There is no doubt that your Bible says that homosexuality is a sin and there is no doubt that it is a "subculture." That is not what is being debated here.
Read the OP again. That actually is the very basis of the need to define LGBT theology the way the OP does. It is simply being honest to the history of the issue.
Probably the majority of people who partake in a superficial reading of the Bible texts that pertain to homosexuality WILL arrive at the notion that the Bible 'undoubtedly' states that homosexuality is a sin.

Superficial? The orthodoxy behind the opposition of those trying to posit that homosexuality is approvable have almost 2000-years of study to state categorically and academically that gay sex and especially same gender marriage is antithetical to Christian truth.

The silence you have tried to use to justify homosexuality is defeaning in its roar of disapproving your position.
That, however, is not the case. A more thorough reading will tell a different story. In ALL cases these texts are NOT referring to homosexuality as we understand it today but to homosexual RAPE and IDOL WORSHIP PRACTICES.
You have never been abe to prove that. It's just a mantra and propaganda tactic that is as misguided as it it missing the mark.
That one does not see this indicates that, 1. they simply don't understand the context of those particular scriptures, or 2. they DO understand the context of those scriptures but SO desire that 'God' support their OWN prejudice/s that they would rather perpetuate a lie.

No where, ANYWHERE is there even a shread of proof for your assertions FROM the Bible. In fact just the opposite is what your positions are up against.
That said, I can't believe that 99 is in ignorance of the accurate definitions of those 'clobber texts'.
The clobber passages do indeed defend against the idea that gay culture can be plied in the Church, but there are many, many, many, many, other scriptural truths that highlight the mythos contained in your positions.
Therefore, I can only arrive at one conclusion and I've already received a mod warning previously for having used what I believe is the appropriate word for that conclusion.
Ever notice that nastiness that ALWAYS accompanies this subject?
How about debating those texts, 99 - and those texts alone without all of the additional 'fluff'?
I have dismantled your attempts at using them over and over again. But I'm up for another game of theological smashmouth football. Or, something much more polite. Either way, your positions cannot past the testing of them.
After all, it's those particular scriptures that have led you to condemn homosexuality . . .
Not hardly pal. Anyone that wants to check back through this thread will see that I have used far more than a few well-defined "clobber passages." Remember the lady that presented Jesus as "blessing" a pederastic relationship between a Roman soldier and his slave? Notice how fast that position got shot down?

The scriptures that gay theologians use to support gay sex and gay behavior: David and Joanathan, Ruth and Naomi, The Roman Commander and his "Pais" . . . all condemn their positions when seriously debated. And futhermore, expose them as even worse then just misapplied passion.
. . . and to suggest such people should form their own denomination rather than pollute 'the Church' and actually rub shoulders with 'the holy ones' such as yourself.
Like I said and repeat, it is the Conservative Evangelical Church that is the target of those seeking the way, the truth, and the life.

Your demands here prove that.

Sooooooooooooo, anytime you're ready with the clobber passages?

Let's start here:
“Honor your father and your mother" - Lev 20

Or here:

That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

Kuh-BAM !!!

"Five clobber passages?" Isn;t that how it goes?

There many, many, many, mmmmmmaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnyyyyyyyy more than that.

But I'll work off of your examples if you'ld like.


Or,

(repeat)

If you want to stay in the secular realm, answer the question: Why has homosexuality and those into it . . . been opposed for thousands of years by the majority of societies and civilizations, if homosexuality is such a standard and fine thing?

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Post #1205

Post by Richard81 »

Alright, 99percentatheism. Currently, as I see it, marriage in modern times is more a legal thing than spiritual. If we eliminate the legal rights that people get by being married, it would only be spiritual, therefore, it would not be unfair to say homosexuals cannot get married. The reason it isn't fair now is because marriage gives the couple certain legal rights they wouldn't have otherwise, it is unfair to deny other human beings any rights because of their sexuality. In America, anyway, marriage is primarily a legal matter, not %100 spiritual. Because marriage gives the couple certain rights, it is unconstitutional to keep any human from getting married, as long as it grants these rights. It would be different if it was just spiritual and didn't grant any rights, but since it does, it wouldn't be right to keep others from these rights. If it was just spiritual, I wouldn't care if gays weren't allowed to be married. I say its your god because their are many gods and I need to be clear on which one I mean
"Faith is the attempt to coerce truth to surrender to whim. In simple terms, it is trying to breathe life into a lie by trying to outshine reality with the beauty of wishes. Faith is the refuge of fools, the ignorant, and the deluded, not of thinking, rational men." - Terry Goodkind.

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Post #1206

Post by otseng »

JohnPaul wrote: I just asked God about it and he told me you were full of BS.
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Post #1207

Post by kayky »

Tex wrote:
So....The world has to change because gay people have to be noticed?
No, Tex. The world has to change so that gay people can have the same civil rights as everyone else.
Words are alive. Cut them and they bleed. --Ralph Waldo Emerson

Believing that religion is a botched attempt to explain the world is on the same intellectual level as seeing ballet as a botched attempt to run for a bus. --Terry Eagleton

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kayky
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Post #1208

Post by kayky »

Still waiting for a response, 99.

kayky wrote:
99:

It just means two things. I am a busy man and this angle of yours is more than likely a waste of time theologically. But I'll make the effort for the demolition derby it deserves.
Translation: 99 has no answer to my argument.

Deuteronomy 5:21b

Neither shall you desire your neighbor's house, or field, or male or female slave, ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.


This may shatter your position for supporting gay marriage even more than anything. It is referencing the desire for...
I don't know what point you think you're making here. This is one of the Ten Commandments, supposedly etched into stone by God himself. Evidently God views human slaves as mere property, no better than livestock.
In YOUR worldvew you can try to tear down the bible using secular morality, or
social issues" if you'ld like. But, alas, you will pass away, hopefully after a long and productive life, without ever denting Biblical truth.
Being honest about what the Bible says is not tearing it down. I have raised an honest issue, and you continue to dodge it. There are only two possible resolutions:

1. The Bible is never wrong; therefore, human slavery is perfectly moral.

OR

2. The Bible is wrong about slavery; therefore, the Bible could be wrong about other things as well.

Until you address this issue head-on without hedging, there is a great big gaping hole in your argument.
Words are alive. Cut them and they bleed. --Ralph Waldo Emerson

Believing that religion is a botched attempt to explain the world is on the same intellectual level as seeing ballet as a botched attempt to run for a bus. --Terry Eagleton

99percentatheism
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Post #1209

Post by 99percentatheism »

kayky wrote: Still waiting for a response, 99.

kayky wrote:
99:

It just means two things. I am a busy man and this angle of yours is more than likely a waste of time theologically. But I'll make the effort for the demolition derby it deserves.
Translation: 99 has no answer to my argument.

Deuteronomy 5:21b

Neither shall you desire your neighbor's house, or field, or male or female slave, ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.


This may shatter your position for supporting gay marriage even more than anything. It is referencing the desire for...
I don't know what point you think you're making here. This is one of the Ten Commandments, supposedly etched into stone by God himself. Evidently God views human slaves as mere property, no better than livestock.
In YOUR worldvew you can try to tear down the bible using secular morality, or
social issues" if you'ld like. But, alas, you will pass away, hopefully after a long and productive life, without ever denting Biblical truth.
Being honest about what the Bible says is not tearing it down. I have raised an honest issue, and you continue to dodge it. There are only two possible resolutions:

1. The Bible is never wrong; therefore, human slavery is perfectly moral.

OR

2. The Bible is wrong about slavery; therefore, the Bible could be wrong about other things as well.

Until you address this issue head-on without hedging, there is a great big gaping hole in your argument.
Address me as 99percentatheism and I'll give it another try.

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Post #1210

Post by 99percentatheism »

Richard81
Alright, 99percentatheism. Currently, as I see it, marriage in modern times is more a legal thing than spiritual. If we eliminate the legal rights that people get by being married, it would only be spiritual, therefore, it would not be unfair to say homosexuals cannot get married.
You do realize that no one is outlawing gay marriage. It has never been legal.
The reason it isn't fair now is because marriage gives the couple certain legal rights they wouldn't have otherwise, it is unfair to deny other human beings any rights because of their sexuality.

Think of the bizaareness of allowing people to demand special rights because of how they like to engage in sex acts.

Man you talk about opening pandora's box. Isn't the teen pregnancy and STD rates caution enough?
In America, anyway, marriage is primarily a legal matter, not %100 spiritual.
I believe you.
Because marriage gives the couple certain rights, it is unconstitutional to keep any human from getting married, as long as it grants these rights.
Redefining marriage is not the only concern with homosexual marriage. It literally unleashes the behavior all the way down to pre-schoolers. Children of parents that do not want their children indoctrinated into believing gay sex is just another form of physical expression.

Yet that right of those parents is called a hate crime. A Darwin help them if they dare to invoke their Biblical views on the subject of proper sexual behavior.
It would be different if it was just spiritual and didn't grant any rights, but since it does, it wouldn't be right to keep others from these rights.
How does the word "marriage" need to be redefined and altered to include two homosexuals? It really doesn't make any sense if you look at it with dispassionate eyes and mind.

Marriage is the union of a husband and wife. It's turning reality upside down to say two husbands are a marruage. It is Bizarro World come to town and never leaving.
If it was just spiritual, I wouldn't care if gays weren't allowed to be married.
That would validate the Christian position that homosexuals can't BE married. It is not based on hate, bigotry or the trick propaganda word-play "homophobia."
I say its your god because their are many gods and I need to be clear on which one I mean
Please help us as the gay community sues us everytime we speak and act like Christians would you?

Go here and help us: http://jointcra.org/

Speak out against the hate directed at innocent Christians.

We are under intense persecution. Thse gay groups are trying to put some of us out of business for believing in Christian truth.

On August 2, 2012 The Civil Rights Agenda, working on behalf of claimants,

filed multiple complaints against Chick-fil-A with The Illinois Department of Human Rights.

Chick-fil-A’s “intolerant corporate culture� violates the Illinois Human Rights Act,

which prohibits a “public accommodation� from making protected classes

“unwelcome, objectionable or unacceptable.�

Learn more about the case by clinking on the picture below.

http://jointcra.org/





Our lawyers are making us say: the above graphic is obviously a parody

and what we believe LGBTQ folks see when they look at a Chick-fil-A sign.

Locked