|Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:38 am Jewish Prayers|
|I know muslims are allowed to pray at synagogues, numerous youtube vids (by Jews) that i've come across (e.g This), say Jews can pray at a mosque but not at a church.
Is it true Jews can pray at mosques but not at churches?
Post 21: Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:24 am
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|Um... So like god is alpha and omega, and omega and alpha.|
Post 22: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:54 pm
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Post 23: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:25 am
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I understand where you're coming from and I respect your beliefs. Let me try and expand on what was said earlier. The whole concept of HaShem in ANY type of human form is not found in any Jewish scripture. From the Jewish perspective, the Messiah is going to accomplish a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h, and i. That person will be 100% human and from the tribe of David. There is no wiggle room or step-father step-in's that will fill in for the blood line. There are certain requirements that we as Jews expect our Messiah to fulfill. As Goyum, you're not bound by our laws and traditions, you're free to read the TaNaKh and interpret it how you would like.
You claim that your messiah's father is HaShem. No matter how you twist it - this concept is foreign in Judaism and we believe that you are therefore worshiping a different HaShem then us. Just as we have no right to tell you that christianity is defined by a trinity, you have no right to tell us that jesus (A human HaShem by every form of christianity) fits into our Jewish beliefs. If you choose to believe in a human HaShem, that is your choice - but we will not enter your places of worship. You can twist the scriptures how you'd like and read them how you want and make up new hebrew words during translations and for the most part, Jews won't care - it's not our job to convert you to our beliefs and customs. In fact, if you tried, you'd likely to be told to get lost.
Post 24: Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:03 pm
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Thank you Ari,
Did you mean ‘goy’, as in the offensive term used for those who are not Jewish, or ‘Goyim’, a person who is not a Jew, … a gentile?
First, who was the One who made Israel become Gods people? Who made the Jews ‘goy ehad b'aretz,’ on the earth? Was it by their own will, did they ‘create God’ as the gentiles have thousands of them?
Please read what is written in Hosea, and pay attention to verse 9;
1:1 The word of the LORD that came unto Hosea, the son of Beeri, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, king of Israel.
2 The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD.
3 So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim; which conceived, and bare him a son.
4 And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.
5 And it shall come to pass at that day, that I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel.
6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Lo-ruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
8 Now when she had weaned Lo-ruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
9 Then said God, Call his name Lo-ammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
God had a plan for the gentiles;
25 As He says also in Hosea:
"I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved." 26 "And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,' You are not My people, 'There they shall be called sons of the living God."
27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:
"Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, The remnant will be saved. 28 For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness, Because the LORD will make a short work upon the earth."
29 And as Isaiah said before:
"Unless the LORD of Sabaoth had left us a seed, We would have become like Sodom, And we would have been made like Gomorrah."
30 Present Condition of Israel
What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness?
Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.
33 As it is written:
"Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
Besides, my mothers’ maiden name is; ‘Rabbi Julianna’, Hungarian Jew turned Christian.
I know and understand whom I worship, it is the ‘One true God’ who created all things that were created, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the Great I Am who has no name nor can any ‘written name’ describe Him. He cannot be seen for He is Spirit, and only those in the spirit can know Him. He can only be known by those who earnestly seek Him. No one can ‘work’ their way into knowing God, but those that truly seek Him and desire to know Him, God will reveal himself to them.
Yes I agree that the religion named ‘Christian’ that was created by the Gentiles around 325AD and made into an ‘official religion’ by Constantine defined their god as a ‘triune, a three in one god’, and the doctrine that describes this is called the ‘Trinity Doctrine’. I don’t believe in ‘many gods’, but only one, so in that sense I am an atheist. No right, … what are you saying, that I as a Jew have no right to quote history? My God is One, who beget a Son and created all things through and for Him. Our Prophets prophesied of this, and it has come to fulfillment. This is that stumbling block laid in Zion, not to trick us, but to wake us up that our hearts have grown cold and have distanced ourselves far away from our God.
Who is really a Jew, the one who simply claims he is, or the one who can show by his actions and words that he serves the One true God? And how would one know that his words and actions are that of a Jew without the Written Word?
A Song of Ascents.
Those who trust in the LORD
Are like Mount Zion,
Which cannot be moved, but abides forever.
2 As the mountains surround Jerusalem,
So the LORD surrounds His people
From this time forth and forever.
3 For the scepter of wickedness shall not rest
On the land allotted to the righteous,
Lest the righteous reach out their hands to iniquity.
4 Do good, O LORD, to those who are good,
And to those who are upright in their hearts.
5 As for such as turn aside to their crooked ways,
The LORD shall lead them away
With the workers of iniquity.
As the ‘Chosen People of God’, all eyes are on us, and when we stray, they point their fingers at us. So what kind of people are we aught to be? We are the light of the world, not just for our people, but for the entire world.
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13(for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
We are the salt of the earth;
"You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men.
And the last holocaust was evidence of this, and so will this next one brewing. Jesus our personal Messiah, the one who came for us specifically made it clear when He said;
14 "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
The curtains to our ‘place of worship’ have been torn because of our long history of rebellion against our God;
38 "This is he who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the Angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, the one who received the living oracles to give to us, 39 whom our fathers would not obey, but rejected. And in their hearts they turned back to Egypt, 40 saying to Aaron, 'Make us gods to go before us; as for this Moses who brought us out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.' 41 And they made a calf in those days, offered sacrifices to the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.
So God no longer abides in a Temple made by hands, but shall dwell ‘IN US’, or in those that open the door of their hearts and receive Him. WE are the Temple of God, and as such;
2 Cor 6:16-18
16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said:
"I will dwell in them
And walk among them.
I will be their God,
And they shall be My people."
"Come out from among them
And be separate, says the Lord.
Do not touch what is unclean,
And I will receive you."
18'I will be a Father to you,
And you shall be My sons and daughters,
Says the LORD Almighty."
Yes, you are correct that I have been shown the door on several occasions in my attempt to fellowship with my fellow Jews. Yet patriotic Germans and Filipino’s (as are other nationalities) welcomed into the fold??
I know where I stand, and who I am, and I can tell the difference between those who claim to be Jewish, or Believers in Christ, and those who are NOT.
Let me ask you friend, do you believe that it was the ‘Believers in Christ’ who made the movie ‘Passion of the Christ’ directed by Mel Gibson and all in Hebrew at that? No, it was by those who want to create a greater rift between Jew and Christianity. The purpose is to create ‘fear and loathing’ in the Jew of those preaching Christ, and to rouse anger in the general Christian public against the Jews. The enemy has a very short time, and they know that the very name of Jew and those that follow the Jewish Messiah must be exterminated from the face of the earth.
Do you think even for a minute that I believe that the Jews would so blatantly advertise the SECRET (lol) Illuminati symbols with a giant Octopus as a grand finale at the 2012 London Olympics representing the Rothschild Elders plan of greed to take over control of the worlds money (Protocols of the Elders of Zion)? Making it obvious by the contorted numbers 2012 that spells out ZION? What kind of ‘secret society’ would advertise their ‘secret society’ like that LOL? No, it is the Lords doing as it is written:
In the meantime, when an innumerable multitude of people had gathered together, so that they trampled one another, He began to say to His disciples first of all, "Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. 2 For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, nor hidden that will not be known. 3 Therefore whatever you have spoken in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have spoken in the ear in inner rooms will be proclaimed on the housetops.
and as in days past, God will use the ‘Beast’ to kill a ‘Beast’. We know that “Money is the root of all evil” and what could be more evil than to oppress the people because of ones greed?
Yes my friend, … ‘once again’ the axe is lifted from the base of the tree, … I can hear them chopping, can’t you? I have already pasted the yellow star on my door, kind of like; “I know your coming” thing, so they would know I can see.
Only I’m not part of the ‘fruitless tree’ they are chopping down, but a branch on the Tree of Life, in Christ which no human axe can touch unless it has been approved by God Himself. We all die to this physical body, some sooner and some later. I have chosen death to the body a long time ago, … so that I may live. I am alive in Christ who saves me.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
6 Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her. 7 In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, 'I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.' 8 Therefore her plagues will come in one day — death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.
Post 25: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:55 pm
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"This sub-forum assumes the ongoing validity of Judaism; anyone can post here, but it's not the place to discuss, for example, whether Christianity has supplanted Judaism or ought to."
Arian, your posts are in violation of the guidelines for this subforum:
We've seen that sort of nonsense here before, but rarely in such blatant and obvious form. If you take that execrable Czarist forgery, the "Protocols," seriously -- not to mention the old "Jews plot to rule the world" myth -- no one here is going to take you seriously.
Just a word to the wise. Peddle your propaganda somewhere else.
Post 26: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:54 pm
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I'm sure HaShem does. It's really not my business what they do as long as they follow the basic laws of Noah.
Let's try something..
1) Does christianity believe jesus is HaShem in a human form? Yes
2) Does Judaism have any concept of a human HaShem? No
3) Why would I care what the N.T. has to say then? I don't...
If you want to bury me in N.T. scripture, then let's discuss some basic things we disagree on. I can write a book 2000 years after jesus about my life and make parables that make me seem like HaShem. I can link my life to 'prophecies' that I choose directly relate to me and ignore the ones that don't. Does that make me HaShem if I do that? No. One of the core principles of Christianity is that jesus was HaShem.
Judaism does not accept any form of a human HaShem. Until you change my mind on that, anything from the N.T. is nothing more then fiction to me. I don't mean to be offensive, but lets be direct. I posted on why Jews don't want to associate themselves with Christianity and the trinity. Your response is to bury me in N.T. quotations to counter my argument. Let's keep the debate centered on one thing: Show me where the idea of a human HaShem is without using the N.T.
Every form of Christianity has one thing in common, they all claim jesus is a human HaShem. They all use the N.T. scripture to justify this. What they all fail to do is use the TaNaKh. I can write a book and use it to justify why the TaNaKh says I am HaShem. It doesn't make it true.
Who is a Jew? That's a rather easy answer. You are a Jew one of two ways:
1) If your mother's mother's mother's mother's etc..... mother was at Mt. Sinai when HaShem gave us the Torah and made us his chosen people.
2) Your mother or any of he maternal grandmother's had a valid conversion to Judaism.
Those are the only people who are Jewish.
That doesn't mean it is our job to go and convert people. Read the book of Ruth if you need evidence of this.
I'm not saying jesus may not be right for you or the majority of gentiles. I'm simply saying he is no different then me. A Jew. You are free to believe as you wish and I'm not conceded enough to say that HaShem would not make covenants with other people.
Again, you're doing circular logic. You are telling me that:
A) jesus is HaShem
B) Because of A, If he says x,y,z it must be okay.
You're not proving point A and you keep avoiding my point. Show to me where the concept of a human HaShem exists using the TaNaKh. It is nothing more than circular logic.
I have yet to meet a Patriotic German Jew who wanted to join us in our synagogue. I'm not sure how I would react, but I don't think any of the Jews on this board have been in that situation either. I assume you are making a reference to a 1940 Patriotic German Jew.
It's not right for me to speculate about the reasons Mel Gibson made the movie in Hebrew. You'll find that most Jews just want to live and let live in society. I don't know many Jews that went and saw the movie.