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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 1: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:57 am
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What is the logic behind Jesus' crucifixion?

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This is arguably the core of the Christian faith that Jesus died for our sins and made it possible for us to live for eternity in heaven... but why did Jesus have to die in order for us to have our sins forgiven?

God makes the rules. There is no "God HAD to sacrifice Jesus" because God can do anything.

Christians often say that God cannot let sin go unpunished as it would be unjust; but is it any more just to sacrifice an innocent man on behalf of a guilty man? If a man rapes a little girl and the man's brother offers to go to prison on his behalf, would this be justice?

If god is satisfied by punishment without guilt (Jesus), why is he not satisfied with guilt without punishment?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 2: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:29 am
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Re: What is the logic behind Jesus' crucifixion?

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Justin108 wrote:

This is arguably the core of the Christian faith that Jesus died for our sins and made it possible for us to live for eternity in heaven... but why did Jesus have to die in order for us to have our sins forgiven?

God makes the rules. There is no "God HAD to sacrifice Jesus" because God can do anything.

Christians often say that God cannot let sin go unpunished as it would be unjust; but is it any more just to sacrifice an innocent man on behalf of a guilty man? If a man rapes a little girl and the man's brother offers to go to prison on his behalf, would this be justice?

If god is satisfied by punishment without guilt (Jesus), why is he not satisfied with guilt without punishment?


You see.....The thing about God, is that God is the "master planner" And God will always do thing that we as humans will never understand.
So your question are just that....A way of trying to hurt are beliefs.

How can I, a creation ever understand God? IN the things I do....I Do. IN the thing I do not I must trust. I trust God because he was willing to give up that which he loved the most, in order to save what he could destroy in a blink of an eye.

We all have choices to make. One of them is to give your soul to God. If you do not, then you will never be able to withstand Satan.
Satan in heaven is too dangerous.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 3: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:01 am
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Re: What is the logic behind Jesus' crucifixion?

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Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

This is arguably the core of the Christian faith that Jesus died for our sins and made it possible for us to live for eternity in heaven... but why did Jesus have to die in order for us to have our sins forgiven?

God makes the rules. There is no "God HAD to sacrifice Jesus" because God can do anything.

Christians often say that God cannot let sin go unpunished as it would be unjust; but is it any more just to sacrifice an innocent man on behalf of a guilty man? If a man rapes a little girl and the man's brother offers to go to prison on his behalf, would this be justice?

If god is satisfied by punishment without guilt (Jesus), why is he not satisfied with guilt without punishment?


You see.....The thing about God, is that God is the "master planner" And God will always do thing that we as humans will never understand.
So your question are just that....A way of trying to hurt are beliefs.
.

The problem is that if God "planned" to sacrifice Jesus then it implies that only by sacrificing Jesus could God have succeeded in whatever he planned. Surely an omnipotent being has the ability to achieve the same outcome without having to kill Jesus? He could have succeeded in whatever he wanted to do merely by snapping his fingers.

Men plan because their actions are hindered by what they can and can not do. Men plan to make a way around these hindrances. God has no hindrances to go around. He can achieve X by any means he likes.

Tex wrote:
How can I, a creation ever understand God? IN the things I do....I Do. IN the thing I do not I must trust. I trust God because he was willing to give up that which he loved the most, in order to save what he could destroy in a blink of an eye

And my question is: Why did he HAVE to give up what he loved most?

Oh and by the way... God didn't give up a damn thing. Where is Jesus now? In heaven. How was he "given up" if he is sitting snugly next to God?


Tex wrote:

We all have choices to make. One of them is to give your soul to God. If you do not, then you will never be able to withstand Satan.
Satan in heaven is too dangerous.

Stop preaching. This is a debate forum.






So all you have to offer is an "I don't know" and a bit of preaching. Your post is entirely useless.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 4: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:07 am
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Oh and by the way... God didn't give up a damn thing. Where is Jesus now? In heaven. How was he "given up" if he is sitting snugly next to God?



Amazing.....If a man send his son to a war and he comes back alive....Does that mean his Father didn't suffer?
Wake up man....Understand before you talk. Go to bible school already.
Your post are all weak in understanding what the NT is about.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 5: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:14 am
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Tex wrote:

Quote:
Oh and by the way... God didn't give up a damn thing. Where is Jesus now? In heaven. How was he "given up" if he is sitting snugly next to God?



Amazing.....If a man send his son to a war and he comes back alive....Does that mean his Father didn't suffer?
Wake up man....Understand before you talk. Go to bible school already.
Your post are all weak in understanding what the NT is about.

I never said Jesus didn't suffer. I said Jesus wasn't "given up".


I was wondering when you would use your "Oh you atheists wouldn't understand" cop out.

So back to the OP. Why did God HAVE to sacrifice Jesus?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 6: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:17 am
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Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Quote:
Oh and by the way... God didn't give up a damn thing. Where is Jesus now? In heaven. How was he "given up" if he is sitting snugly next to God?



Amazing.....If a man send his son to a war and he comes back alive....Does that mean his Father didn't suffer?
Wake up man....Understand before you talk. Go to bible school already.
Your post are all weak in understanding what the NT is about.

I never said Jesus didn't suffer. I said Jesus wasn't "given up".


I was wondering when you would use your "Oh you atheists wouldn't understand" cop out.

So back to the OP. Why did God HAVE to sacrifice Jesus?



I wasn't talking about the suffering of the son. It was about the suffering of the Father.

You see....You can't understand. How can anyone who does not believe in God even start to understand. Your foundation is weak and will crumble.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 7: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:59 am
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Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Quote:
Oh and by the way... God didn't give up a damn thing. Where is Jesus now? In heaven. How was he "given up" if he is sitting snugly next to God?



Amazing.....If a man send his son to a war and he comes back alive....Does that mean his Father didn't suffer?
Wake up man....Understand before you talk. Go to bible school already.
Your post are all weak in understanding what the NT is about.

I never said Jesus didn't suffer. I said Jesus wasn't "given up".


I was wondering when you would use your "Oh you atheists wouldn't understand" cop out.

So back to the OP. Why did God HAVE to sacrifice Jesus?



I wasn't talking about the suffering of the son. It was about the suffering of the Father.

You see....You can't understand. How can anyone who does not believe in God even start to understand. Your foundation is weak and will crumble.

"Oh you atheists will never understand"
Are you going to debate or are you going to keep copping out?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 8: Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:09 am
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Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Quote:
Oh and by the way... God didn't give up a damn thing. Where is Jesus now? In heaven. How was he "given up" if he is sitting snugly next to God?



Amazing.....If a man send his son to a war and he comes back alive....Does that mean his Father didn't suffer?
Wake up man....Understand before you talk. Go to bible school already.
Your post are all weak in understanding what the NT is about.

I never said Jesus didn't suffer. I said Jesus wasn't "given up".


I was wondering when you would use your "Oh you atheists wouldn't understand" cop out.

So back to the OP. Why did God HAVE to sacrifice Jesus?



I wasn't talking about the suffering of the son. It was about the suffering of the Father.

You see....You can't understand. How can anyone who does not believe in God even start to understand. Your foundation is weak and will crumble.

"Oh you atheists will never understand"
Are you going to debate or are you going to keep copping out?



Until you learn to do math.....You can't play with the teacher. It's pointless.
You get what I'm telling you? That's why we(Creationist) are all stupid when it comes to evolution....Right?
Now....study the bible with people that KNOW the bible then you may able to play.
Right now...You are lost when in comes to things of God.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 9: Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:14 am
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Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Quote:
Oh and by the way... God didn't give up a damn thing. Where is Jesus now? In heaven. How was he "given up" if he is sitting snugly next to God?



Amazing.....If a man send his son to a war and he comes back alive....Does that mean his Father didn't suffer?
Wake up man....Understand before you talk. Go to bible school already.
Your post are all weak in understanding what the NT is about.

I never said Jesus didn't suffer. I said Jesus wasn't "given up".


I was wondering when you would use your "Oh you atheists wouldn't understand" cop out.

So back to the OP. Why did God HAVE to sacrifice Jesus?



I wasn't talking about the suffering of the son. It was about the suffering of the Father.

You see....You can't understand. How can anyone who does not believe in God even start to understand. Your foundation is weak and will crumble.

"Oh you atheists will never understand"
Are you going to debate or are you going to keep copping out?



Until you learn to do math.....You can't play with the teacher. It's pointless.
You get what I'm telling you? That's why we(Creationist) are all stupid when it comes to evolution....Right?
Now....study the bible with people that KNOW the bible then you may able to play.
.

Do you "know" the bible? Then why don't you answer the question?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 10: Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:25 am
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Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Justin108 wrote:

Tex wrote:

Quote:
Oh and by the way... God didn't give up a damn thing. Where is Jesus now? In heaven. How was he "given up" if he is sitting snugly next to God?



Amazing.....If a man send his son to a war and he comes back alive....Does that mean his Father didn't suffer?
Wake up man....Understand before you talk. Go to bible school already.
Your post are all weak in understanding what the NT is about.

I never said Jesus didn't suffer. I said Jesus wasn't "given up".


I was wondering when you would use your "Oh you atheists wouldn't understand" cop out.

So back to the OP. Why did God HAVE to sacrifice Jesus?



I wasn't talking about the suffering of the son. It was about the suffering of the Father.

You see....You can't understand. How can anyone who does not believe in God even start to understand. Your foundation is weak and will crumble.

"Oh you atheists will never understand"
Are you going to debate or are you going to keep copping out?



Until you learn to do math.....You can't play with the teacher. It's pointless.
You get what I'm telling you? That's why we(Creationist) are all stupid when it comes to evolution....Right?
Now....study the bible with people that KNOW the bible then you may able to play.
.

Do you "know" the bible? Then why don't you answer the question?


Me knowing the bible means nothing to you.
Here is what the bible teaches....I know what it means to you.So why are you even asking this question?
It is only to try and destroy faith in God.....Right?



John 12 (NT)
23 Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24 Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. 25 Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.

27 “Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. 28 Father, glorify your name!”

Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” 29 The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.

30 Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32 And I, when I am lifted up[g] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 33 He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.

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