New Here. Would like a 1 on 1 discussion

[SlowRoll]

Hi, I just joined and would like to have a good discussion. What about? What is the truth about our reality? Is there a God? If so what is it? Is there good reason to believe he/she exists?

I would like an honest discussion.

Not one where neither of us can concede a good point. Just because someone has a valid point, does not mean they have won/are winning the "argument".

I will let you know up front:

My position is most commonly described as: "agnostic atheist"

I am not attached to that position. I will go wherever the evidence leads.

If you cannot say to yourself; "I might be wrong. I might be wrong about a specific point, or about a large part of my understanding." Then I don't really want to talk to you.

I admit I might be wrong. If you talk to me, you will find that is true.

Nothing is off limits to me. I will not shy away from an argument just because it might weaken my position.

I strive for displaying a loyalty to one thing , and one thing only:

Truth.

Not pride. Not comfort. Not complacency.

Let me know if you're interested.

We can talk here, or via email, or skype. (I'd prefer skype) But whatever is fine with me.

Hope to hear from someone soon.

Thanks

[Divine Insight]

Hi SlowRoll,

I don't have time or resources to have a decent debate. I'm on dial-up and that rules out things like using Skype, etc. Besides, I'm also agnostic with respect to the true nature of reality (which I personally believe every human necessarily must be). I take the term "agnostic" to simply mean "without sufficient knowledge to answer a specific question". It doesn't mean that I'm simply not sure yet or have not made up my mind. And of course, that's only in regard to the question of the true nature of reality. I'm not "without knowledge" of everything. There are some things I do believe that I can know.

However, in lieu of a debate, I'd be glad to offer some thoughts on some of the questions you've posed. (just as food for thought)

What is the truth about our reality?

To the best of my knowledge no one knows. I sure don't.

Having said that I am very well educated in the sciences and in particular in the sciences of physics and cosmology so I have a good understanding of the scientific picture of "reality" and I also understand that the evidence for it is very solid.

Having said that, I still can't rule out that the entire scientific picture could be a dream, an illusion of sorts. So for all I know, "Life is but a dream". That could be true. In fact, as you'll see in a moment I even entertain that as a very plausible answer to the question of "what is reality?"

Is there a God?

Yes. I have created a God in my mind. Therefore my God is as least as real as my own imagination.

Now you may think that this is a bit absurd, or even meant as a joke. But trust me, I'm not joking.

According to many secular atheists, our consciousness is nothing more than an 'emergent property' of our physical brain. Well, fine. If all I am is an emergent property of a physical brain then my brain is "imagining" that *I* exist.

Well, gee, if *I* am nothing more than the imagination of a physical brain, then if I imagine a God, that God must be at least as real as me.

Seriously.

If so what is it?

Ok, I confess, I don't buy into the secular atheist's view that I'm merely an "emergent property" of a physical brain that is just imagining that *I* exist.

I believe that *I* am something more that this. And that brings me to the Eastern Mystical view of spirituality. I won't attempt to describe Mysticism here other than to say that I agree with their answer to your question:

"Tat t'vam asi" meaning "You are it".

You are the spiritual entity that you seek.

Is there good reason to believe he/she exists?

(I would like an honest discussion.)

I too value honesty above all else. In fact, honesty is precisely why was able to reject Christianity (the religion I was born and raised into). I don't want to go into the details of that here. But just to emphasize the importance of honesty, I'd like to state the following:

I looked into the religion I was born into (Christianity). And I personally found it to be utterly absurd, highly self-contradicting, and about as unwise a fable I could ever expect to find. I saw nothing "divine" in any of it (given the overall picture).

So what could I do? Well if the biblical God exists, shouldn't I be honest with that God? My answer is YES, I should absolutely be honest with that God. What good would it be if I had to lie to the God in some insane effort to appease it?

So what is the honest truth? The honest truth is that, to me, the biblical fables are utterly stupid and ignorant. And so that's what I would necessarily need to say to that God because it's the only HONEST thing to do. Tell the TRUTH.

~~~~

Now having said all of that let me return to your question once again:

Is there good reason to believe he/she exists?

First off, WHO is he/she?

If the Eastern mystics are right and we are this spiritual essence than our very existence is proof that "God exists". Because, "Tat t'vam asi" (You are it!)

On the other hand, if I had to give you good reasons to believe that some fabled Gods exist, I'd be truly hard-pressed to come up with any convincing reasons to believe in any of them.

I can give you good reasons why it's plausible to believe that life is ultimately of a spiritual nature.

But then again, I can give you good reasons why it makes almost as much sense to believe that there is no spiritual essence to life and the secular atheists are right. The universe is just a freak accident of physical laws that just happened to evolved into brains that imagine they have *I*s.

I can't give you a compelling argument one way or the other.

~~~~

On a personal note, I can offer the following things:

1. There is no scientific reason to rule out a spiritual nature of reality.

(we simply don't know enough about the true nature of reality to make that kind of statement)

Therefore it's reasonable to keep open the possibility that such an essence can indeed exist. Especially, I think, in terms of some of the Eastern Mystical views of spirituality.

I confess, that Zeus-like Gods who rule over their creations of far lesser "mortal humans" is a highly unlikely type of scenario. The idea of such egotistical "Gods" just doesn't make any sense to me.

If there is a spiritual essence to reality, we are most likely that essence.

2. For me personally, a totally secular universe that just pops into existence purely for physical reasons (i.e. due to some laws of physics) and just accidentally evolves into brains that imagine to have *I*s, is every bit as "mystical" as the Eastern Mystical philosophies.

From my perspective they are both equally absurd. Therefore it's just as reasonable to assume either one. And since I have to make an assumption, why not assume that I'm spiritual. Sure beats being a temporary imaginary *I*.

The idea that a purely secular existence somehow has a 'leg-up' on a spiritual reality is nonsense. They are both equally mystical and neither of them make any more sense than the other, IMHO.

3. I can only speak for myself on this one, but ever since I can remember, I have always "known innately" that I have always existed.

I innately feel that there was never a time when I did not exist, nor will there ever be a time when I will cease to exist.

I grant you that this is entirely a personal feeling. And that doesn't count for diddly squat in any sort of debate. My feelings on this matter can be attributed to my own misguided perceptions of reality. Just because I feel like I'm immortal doesn't mean that I am.

Another personal "experience" I've often had is a feeling of being "very close" to nature, in ways that are very hard to describe. And even in dream I've "seen" (almost like memories) very primordial events. Even before humans evolved.

Again, these are just dreams, and they count for nothing in debates. Could be just the way my mind dreams. But for me, they are almost like memories of sorts.

So, yes, I lean toward the spiritual side of reality.

I often say that I'm an "Intellectual Agnostic" but an "Intuitive Spiritualist".

So that's where I stand on the topic of the "True Nature of Reality".

No where'd I put my Buddha doll?

Oh that's right, he took a swim in the river Tao.

Nevermind, he'll be back.

All is cool.

[McCulloch]

My position is most commonly described as: "agnostic atheist"

I would like a good debate, but I doubt that we differ enough on any issue to debate. I am theological noncognitivist, I believe that the term God is so poorly defined and contradictory that it is essentially meaningless. On a more practical level I am a Humanist.

Welcome and good hunting.

[kayky]

I am a progressive Christian who likes to debate. I've never done a one on one debate before, but wouldn't mind giving it a try. I would want to do it on this site, however. Let me know if I'm your gal.

[SlowRoll]

Hi Kayky,

Sounds like you're my girl! Sorry it took me a couple of days to respond. If you are still interested, please let me know.

Thanks

[kayky]

Great! Go ahead and set up your OP on the one-to-one forum, and I will meet with you there as often as I can. I am looking forward to it. I think you will find me a very civil debater.

[SlowRoll]

Hi kayky,

I can't send p.m.s yet. I also can't start a topic in the 1on 1 section. I went ahead and put it in the Christianity sub of the Debate section. See you there!

[happy forever]

Hi kayky,

I can't send p.m.s yet. I also can't start a topic in the 1on 1 section. I went ahead and put it in the Christianity sub of the Debate section. See you there!

Sorry for this late reply, it gives me pleasure and honor to talk to you.

[playhavock]

Hi, I just joined and would like to have a good discussion.

Welcome abord, I'll do my best

What about?

Logic, anime, board games are all topics that I like to talk about.

What is the truth about our reality?

Its bleeping strange.

Reality as we know it is best viewed by science, it is hands down the best tool we have to understand things, but there are meny things we do not know or yet undertsand, only by studying things and data colection and colarbation with others can we hope to understand more then we do now.

Is there a God?

The word itself sugests this can not be answered, but if there is no emperical evidance and/or repeatable test for it, then we must be skeptical that it is so.
Depends on the defention of the word however.

If so what is it?

Depends what relgion you consult. Since there is no one answer for this question, I am highly skeptical that it exists other then a constcut of the human brain.

Is there good reason to believe he/she exists?

No, not that I have seen so far.

I would like an honest discussion.

Me as well

Not one where neither of us can concede a good point. Just because someone has a valid point, does not mean they have won/are winning the "argument".

Well, on a technocal level it does but that only "counts" I supose in the 1-1 debate part of the fourm, and maybe only to those who care about such things (like me)

My position is most commonly described as: "agnostic atheist"

Skeptic best outlines what my position is.

"What ya skeptical about?" you might ask, I will respond, "What ya got?"

I am not attached to that position. I will go wherever the evidence leads.

Me too!

If you cannot say to yourself; "I might be wrong. I might be wrong about a specific point, or about a large part of my understanding." Then I don't really want to talk to you.

Props! I talk to whoever I feel like, but talking to people who can not think they are wrong does tend to be something I feel less inclinded to do lately.

I admit I might be wrong. If you talk to me, you will find that is true.

I'm always right unless I'm left (humor)

Nothing is off limits to me.

What color is your underpants?