Starving people in Africa

Ethics, Morality, and Sin

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
AdHoc
Guru
Posts: 2254
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:39 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Starving people in Africa

Post #1

Post by AdHoc »

Is it a logical fallacy to show pictures of starving children in Africa?
Yes, if you are using it to argue that one ought to help starving children in Africa.
I personally agree with the answer given to the question above. Showing pictures tugs on a person's heartstrings but if the logic that drives the argument is examined its likely logically flawed.

But it makes me wonder, is there a logical argument that could be put forward that people in the west should help people in Africa?

My heart tells me we should but I have no idea if there is a logical reason for it.

User avatar
AdHoc
Guru
Posts: 2254
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:39 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Starving people in Africa

Post #31

Post by AdHoc »

dusk wrote:
AdHoc wrote:Because we take care of each other? And I would go to prison
Afaik they don't send dead people to prison and it would make a difference.
Your children most likely don't do a lot of care taking and once your parents are old the care taking goes another direction. They are expendable. Get rid of them is way more convenient and beneficial.
To be completely honest I've lost interest in this particular line of reasoning... I'm sure there is a point you are making, what is it?

Bust Nak
Savant
Posts: 9874
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:03 am
Location: Planet Earth
Has thanked: 189 times
Been thanked: 266 times

Re: Starving people in Africa

Post #32

Post by Bust Nak »

bluethread wrote: As a pragmatic approach on the part of the charity industry, appealing to hedonism works. Enlightened self interest was a justification for colonialism. In the 20th century, however, this approach was increasingly demonized as preditory, by such theories as the tragedy of the commons and self determination. These theories have been considered as more helpful in dealing with third world privation, but the application of these approaches have also had mixed results.
I would say what I am talking here, that People help because helping feels good, is not method to solve problem but a discription of what is.

User avatar
dusk
Sage
Posts: 793
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:38 am
Location: Austria

Re: Starving people in Africa

Post #33

Post by dusk »

AdHoc wrote:
dusk wrote:
AdHoc wrote:Because we take care of each other? And I would go to prison
Afaik they don't send dead people to prison and it would make a difference.
Your children most likely don't do a lot of care taking and once your parents are old the care taking goes another direction. They are expendable. Get rid of them is way more convenient and beneficial.
To be completely honest I've lost interest in this particular line of reasoning... I'm sure there is a point you are making, what is it?
The point is that pure cold logic simply doesn't apply. You don't do it because you fear prison or take care of each other as in a cost vs benefits calculations, but you do it because you care the taking care is just the result.
We are emotional beings and our emotional "sanity" means generally more to us than pure cold logic.
What you and bluethread are arguing is why not just turn off our emotions or avoid them as best as we can. You can also just throw Psychopharmaka down your throat until nothing matters anymore. It is not impossible nor even difficult but generally having emotions is something we do care about as being something that makes us human. We don't want that ourselves it is not a law or a holy book keeping us from doing so on a permanent basis (most of us at least).
Wie? ist der Mensch nur ein Fehlgriff Gottes? Oder Gott nur ein Fehlgriff des Menschen?
How is it? Is man one of God's blunders or is God one of man's blunders?

- Friedrich Nietzsche

User avatar
bluethread
Savant
Posts: 9129
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:10 pm

Re: Starving people in Africa

Post #34

Post by bluethread »

Bust Nak wrote:
I would say what I am talking here, that People help because helping feels good, is not method to solve problem but a discription of what is.
Yes, that is exactly why we are innundated with advertising designed to make us feel bad.

User avatar
AdHoc
Guru
Posts: 2254
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:39 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Starving people in Africa

Post #35

Post by AdHoc »

dusk wrote:
AdHoc wrote:
dusk wrote:
AdHoc wrote:Because we take care of each other? And I would go to prison
Afaik they don't send dead people to prison and it would make a difference.
Your children most likely don't do a lot of care taking and once your parents are old the care taking goes another direction. They are expendable. Get rid of them is way more convenient and beneficial.
To be completely honest I've lost interest in this particular line of reasoning... I'm sure there is a point you are making, what is it?
The point is that pure cold logic simply doesn't apply. You don't do it because you fear prison or take care of each other as in a cost vs benefits calculations, but you do it because you care the taking care is just the result.
We are emotional beings and our emotional "sanity" means generally more to us than pure cold logic.
What you and bluethread are arguing is why not just turn off our emotions or avoid them as best as we can. You can also just throw Psychopharmaka down your throat until nothing matters anymore. It is not impossible nor even difficult but generally having emotions is something we do care about as being something that makes us human. We don't want that ourselves it is not a law or a holy book keeping us from doing so on a permanent basis (most of us at least).
I agree with you and this is the conclusion I was hoping this thread would come to

Malachi_Smith
Student
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:41 am

Re: Starving people in Africa

Post #36

Post by Malachi_Smith »

[Replying to post 1 by AdHoc]

We should help people learn to use the soil properly and grow crops that are suitable for their area. Sweet potatoes are drought proof - this is from personal experience - and don't need chemicals. The leaves are good salad, so the food
is available quickly. Emotional ideas don't get it.

User avatar
bluethread
Savant
Posts: 9129
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:10 pm

Re: Starving people in Africa

Post #37

Post by bluethread »

Sorry, responded to early post

User avatar
AdHoc
Guru
Posts: 2254
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:39 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Starving people in Africa

Post #38

Post by AdHoc »

[Replying to post 36 by Malachi_Smith]

I agree sweet potatoes, tilapia, rice and possibly some intricate combination of the these food sources to purify water as well.

User avatar
Nickman
Site Supporter
Posts: 5443
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:51 am
Location: Idaho
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Starving people in Africa

Post #39

Post by Nickman »

AdHoc wrote:
Is it a logical fallacy to show pictures of starving children in Africa?
Yes, if you are using it to argue that one ought to help starving children in Africa.
I personally agree with the answer given to the question above. Showing pictures tugs on a person's heartstrings but if the logic that drives the argument is examined its likely logically flawed.

But it makes me wonder, is there a logical argument that could be put forward that people in the west should help people in Africa?

My heart tells me we should but I have no idea if there is a logical reason for it.
I would have to see the full context to make a determination. You have the full quote?

User avatar
AdHoc
Guru
Posts: 2254
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:39 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Starving people in Africa

Post #40

Post by AdHoc »

Nickman wrote:
AdHoc wrote:
Is it a logical fallacy to show pictures of starving children in Africa?
Yes, if you are using it to argue that one ought to help starving children in Africa.
I personally agree with the answer given to the question above. Showing pictures tugs on a person's heartstrings but if the logic that drives the argument is examined its likely logically flawed.

But it makes me wonder, is there a logical argument that could be put forward that people in the west should help people in Africa?

My heart tells me we should but I have no idea if there is a logical reason for it.
I would have to see the full context to make a determination. You have the full quote?
Which full quote?

Post Reply