Who was Cain/Cainan

[mitty]

Adam begat CAIN who begat ENOCH who begat IRAD who begat MEHUJAEL who begat METHUSAEL who begat LAMECH.

Adam's great grandson CAINAN begat MAHALALEEL who begat JARED who begat ENOCH who begat METHUSELAH who begat LAMECH who begat Noah.

These two lines look to be the same with a small shuffle in order and if you consider CAIN=CAINAN, IRAD=JARED, MEHUJAEL=MAHALALEEL, METHUSAEL=METHUSELAH.

Does this coincidence arise from a number of writers who contributed to Genesis recording the same oral history and myths of these people but somehow in the collation of the stories into one book things got stuffed up a bit. Having done my own family tree I know how frustating it is with written records and errors in those records, so it would be even more difficult to formally record an oral history into a written form without making errors.

So who was Cain/Cainan. Was he Adam's son or great grandson? If the latter then it makes Joshua's and Yahveh's excuse for Joshua's crimes-against-humanity (Joshua 6:21 8:26) pretty pathetic if the victims of these atrocities were also descendants of Adam's son Seth and not some cursed tribe descended from a fratricider. Those excuses are the same as used by suicide bombers who blame their crimes on the same bronze-age god. So was Joshua also responsible for the Book of Joshua and thus able to explain away why he slaughter innocent people including children. This account alone would be enough for disbelieving this fairy tale involving the supernatural.

[S-word]

The story of Cain may be a simple metaphor for the conflict between nomadic shepherds and settled farmers. Referring to the time period, in which agriculture (Abel) began to replace the ways of the hunter-gatherer (Cain).

Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.� ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

The days and nights of Brahma are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day,’ which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. ‘Manvantara,’ is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, ‘Pralaya,’ is the evening that proceeds the next creative day. The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest in which we now exist are referred to in the book of Genesis as the generations of the universe.

The English word “Generation,� is translated from the Hebrew “toledoth� which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as ‘births,’ or ‘descendants,’ such as “These are the generations of Adam,� or “these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or the heavens and earth, etc. And the ‘Great Day’ in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period, or the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the seven physical cycles that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.

Origen, was a Christian writer and teacher who lived between the years of 185 and 254 AD. Among his many works is the Hexapla, which is his interpretation of the Old Testament texts. Origen holds to a series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it. Every universe from the first to the last, from the smallest to the greatest, which have been created throughout the aeons of eternity, still exist in their independent Space-Time positions within the eternal and boundless cosmos.

The New international Version, the Scofield Referrence Bible, and the Companion Bible, all note that the phase in Genesis 1: 2; The earth was formless and void (Having neither shape or mass) should be correctly translated, “The earth became without form and void.� The Hebrew word “Hayah� translated “was,� means “To become, occur, come to pass, Be.� (Vines Complete Expository of Old and New Testament Words, 1985. “To Be.�)

When this universe collapses and is condensed once more into the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity of origin, it returns to THE Beginning, before space and time began, not to a new beginning, but to THE beginning.

The first time that one reads the bible from Genesis to revelation, they have little or no understanding of the beginning. By the time they reach Revelation they have gained some insight into the genesis story and next time they can enter into the “WORD� on a deeper level, whereupon a much greater revelation of the BEGINNING is received, which allows them to enter into the unfathomable depths of the “WORD� at an even deeper level etc, etc.

One then begins to understand the Biblical revelation of an eternal cyclic universe that begins as an infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity, which singularity expands to become the universal body which is all that is. A body which is then condensed back into the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity of “The Beginning:� not to some new beginning, but “THE BEGINNING�, before the space and time of this visible three dimension came to be.

The student will eventually understand that Mankind is not the end of the evolutionary or growth process within this expansion, or should I say, “Period of universal activity,� and that a new species of non-physical beings, which comes from the body of mankind (The Son of Man) is yet to evolve/grow.

The prototype of the new species that will dwell on earth among mankind and which evolves from mankind, is Jesus of Nazareth who appeared to Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus in his new body of glorious and blinding light. And as we have born the image of the first Adam, so shall a selected few share the image of the second Adam.

The story of “Cain the Shining One� and his younger brother Abel, is a very, very, very condensed story of a previous cycle of universal activity, wherein the Son of Man (The Shining Ones) had evolved and they were over righteous and destroyed their younger brother Abel.

These are the sons of God who came down and defiled themselves with the daughters of Seth in the next period of universal activity. (The name “JARED� carries the meaning, “DESCENDING) and we read that it was in the days of Jared (Descending) that the Sons of God abandoned their own original habitat and came down and bore sons from the daughters of man. We also read in the Testament of Reuben, that they could not manifest themselves in visible form, but would possess the bodies of the men, while they were with their wives and from there they were able to pass on their issue, and Giants were born on the earth.

Jared was the physical Father of Enoch, but Cain the Shining one was the spiritual father who possessed the body of Jared, and Enoch is the only man in scripture to have received the gift of eternal life. The only exception of all mankind to be carried to heaven and anointed by the Godhead to the ever evolving universal body, where he received the gift of eternal life when he was translated from a corruptible body of matter, into an incorruptible body of brilliant and blinding light.

To win the victory, one does not believe that the stories in the bible are all literally true, but one must believe that within those stories the truth is revealed.

Noah, his wife, their three sons and their wives are all descendants of Enoch’s six sons, Methusulah, Rigam, Riman, Urchan, Cherminion and Giadad. Enoch is the only exception of all mankind to have ascended to the ends of all time and witness the collapse of the universal body into the Great Abyss (Black Hole) which is the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven.

It is He, the Most High in the creation, the “Son of Man� The light and life of the LOGOS, which is all the gathered universal information (The Word) that expresses itself as another physical universal body in the image and likeness of the body in which our Father was the supreme personality of Godhead to have developed in the living universal body, and it was HE, who in the Beginning was the light and the life within the Logos (The Gathered information/spirit, that was God.)

Our Father, “The Son of Man,� who is the Godhead within the Logos, then dies in the process of involution, in order, that from the gathered information that is He, the resurrected universal body that had descended into the seemingly bottomless pit would rise again in the image of the previous body in which HE had developed.

When the Logos has emptied itself and the world and all its life forms are recreated, and the Logos has become mankind once again, the light of Man who is the life of the Logos came unto his own, but his own received him not, yet to as many as received him, to them gave He the power to become the Sons of God.

John, was not that Light, but came to bear witness to the light of Man, who was the new living controlling spirit in the body of Adam (Mankind) that rose from the baptismal waters of the earth in which the body of the old godhead Adam, was submerged. It was our heavenly father, (The Son of Man) who told John, that the man upon whom he saw HIS spirit descend, was the one through whom he would reveal himself and the awesome sacrifice that He makes for the sinful body in which HE, ‘The Son of Man’ had developed.

Enoch, whose life was ransomed by the righteous blood of Abel, which blood could redeem only one man, was the only man who received the lot of eternal life, and it is the deathless spirit of Enoch, which is the indwelling ancestral Father of all the descendants of Noah, who dwells behind the veil to the inner most sanctuary of his temporary tabernacle as he await the creation of his new glorious Temple of light in which he will dwell on earth among mankind, of which Temple, Jesus was the chosen cornerstone.

Jesus was the first of many brothers to be raised from the dead past of the Son of Man, the first to win the victory and to receive a share of the glorious immortal body of light (Simulacrum/blueprint) that was torn asunder for our salvation and poured out as fire on all who believed his words as spoken through his obedient earthly host body "Jesus," who spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say by our heavenly Father.

. In his new glorious body of brilliant and blinding light, he 'Jesus,' on the road to Damascus, answered Saul's question, "Who are you Lord?" with these words, "I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you persecute,"

And Jesus our brother, was given divine glory and now sits in the throne of our Father, we the chosen ones have born the image of the first Adam, shall also bear THE IMAGE OF Jesus the second Adam, a new creation of bodies of Glorious and blinding Light that is the Temple that is to replace God’s old tabernacle (Mankind) on this earth.

First, MAN was created a little lower than the angels, then he is crowned with glory and all creation is placed beneath his feet. All creation is placed beneath the feet of MAN WHO IS CROWNED WITH GLORY, we have not yet seen this happen. But we have seen Jesus, the first born from the dead past of the Godhead, who has won the victory and was given divine glory by our heavenly Father and saviour, and now sits in His heavenly throne of Godhead: and who, in Revelation 3: 21; invites we; who win the victory also, to sit with him in our Father’s throne of Godhead within the creation. And all creation Visible and invisible, which includes even the angels, will bow at our feet.

Any chance of just making a point without writing a novel? LOL
You don't really believe all that do you?

[S-word's Response]......Yep!

“When one person suffers from delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from delusion it is called religion.� Robert M.Pirsig

[ttruscott]

One of our problems with this story is that we do not know how old these two were when they had their fight.

Because they are mentioned without any other child being mentioned it is assumed they are the only children and the first children. BUT that is not proven in the text...Gensesis 4 is about Cain and Abel, not anyone else, so no one else is mentioned until their story is over.

But if Adam and Eve had a child each year and these children started to have their own children at age 15 or so, in a very short time (out of a 900 year lifespan that is) the exponential increase would be huge. Sorry I can't provide the math though someone here certainly can.

So, if Cain and Abel were born during Adam and Eve's 100 year on earth, it might have had a very large population indeed by that time.

Also it is not proven by the text that these two were just kids when the fight happened. All the cutsie little pictures in your children's bible may be bogus as, well, completely bogus. Figments of the imagination and orthodox bias. This was not just a kid's mistake and childish anger; it was religious war.

Cain was trying to surplant the religion of the coats of skins for righteousness instituted by GOD for Adam and Eve with his first fruits fertility / weather cult of the Baals and Asherah (groves).

If they were 100 years old themselves by the time this religeous war came to a head, how many more people were populating the earth, given exponential growth?

No need to speculate about non-human humans or other exotics...just accept what is there without getting locked into pre-conceived teachings about it.

NOW the really interesting thing is that GOD not only let Cain go but gave him a mark to save his life from any Jehovah worshippers he might meet. This makes it obvious that GOD intended to use slayers of HIS faithful to the advantage of HIS elect and HIS church.

I do wonder what the part of his curse about being "driven from the ground" might mean...although I do think that the mark of Cain is false religion, ungodly piety and idolatry.

Peace,
Ted

[The Tongue]

[Replying to post 22 by ttruscott]

[ttruscott wrote]........Because they are mentioned without any other child being mentioned it is assumed they are the only children and the first children. BUT that is not proven in the text...Gensesis 4 is about Cain and Abel, not anyone else, so no one else is mentioned until their story is over.

From the book of Jubilees chapter 4: 1; "And in the third week in the second jubilee [64-70 A.M.] she gave birth to Cain, and in the fourth [71-77 A.M.] she gave birth to Abel, and in the fifth [78-84 A.M.] she gave birth to her daughter Âwân.

(2) And in the first (year) of the third jubilee [99-105 A.M.], Cain slew Abel because (God) accepted the sacrifice of Abel, and did not accept the offering of Cain.

(3) And he slew him in the field: and his blood cried from the ground to heaven, complaining because he had slain him.

[ttruscott wrote].........One of our problems with this story is that we do not know how old these two were when they had their fight.

Verse 7. And Adam and his wife mourned for Abel four weeks of years, [99-127 A.M] and in the fourth year of the fifth week [130 A.M.] they became joyful, and Adam knew his wife again, and she bare him a son, and he called his name Seth; for he said 'GOD has raised up a second seed unto us on the earth instead of Abel; for Cain slew him.'

8. And in the sixth week [134-40 A.M.] he begat his daughter Azûrâ.

Abel was born somewhere between 71 and 77 AM and died in the year of 99 AM, this means that he was between 22 to 28 years old when they had their fight: that is, if you can call someone sneaking up on you and smashing a rock on your head, a fight.

[ttruscott wrote]........But if Adam and Eve had a child each year and these children started to have their own children at age 15 or so, in a very short time (out of a 900 year lifespan that is) the exponential increase would be huge. Sorry I can't provide the math though someone here certainly can.

But Adam and Eve did not have a child each year, in fact it was some 30 years after the death of Abel that they had their fourth child, "SETH." Nor did the children of Adam and Eve start to have their own children at age 15 or so. Seth was 105 when he sired his first child Enosh the son of his sister Asura.

ttruscott wrote: "Cain was trying to surplant the religion of the coats of skins for righteousness instituted by GOD for Adam and Eve with his first fruits fertility / weather cult of the Baals and Asherah (groves). "

Where in heavens name he got this from is any body's guess, but it was definitely not from any of the scriptures, and then he goes on to say: "No need to speculate about non-human humans or other exotics...just accept what is there without getting locked into pre-conceived teachings about it. "

And what was all that about "Cain trying to surplant the religion of the coats of skins for righteousness instituted by GOD for Adam and Eve with his first fruits fertility / weather cult of the Baals and Asherah (groves). " if not his own speculations?

[ttruscott wrote]..........So, if Cain and Abel were born during Adam and Eve's 100 year on earth, it might have had a very large population indeed by that time.

What are you talking about, when you say ,"Adam and Eve's 100 years on earth?" It is written in Chapter 4 verse 30 of the book of Jubilees: "And he (Adam) lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge:'On the day that ye eat thereof ye shall die.' For this reason he did not complete the years of this day; for he died during it."

Adam died in the first day of one thousand years, and it is written that Eve, who has expanded to become this great pregnant androgynous body of mankind, in which the spirit of "THE SON OF MAN," is developing, would follow her Lord six days from his death, which is after the great Sabbath of one thousand years, the seventh day from the day in which Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died in that first day at the age of 930.

For when the "DAY OF THE LORD" which is the Great Sabbath, the seventh period of one thousand years, which is the reality to which the weekly Sabbath pointed, is finished, fire will descend from heaven and incinerate all physical life forms on this planet and Adam's rib shall be returned to him.

Adam and Eve's 100 year on earth? from where did you get that little piece of erroneous speculation?

[ttruscott wrote]..........NOW the really interesting thing is that GOD not only let Cain go but gave him a mark to save his life from any Jehovah worshippers he might meet. This makes it obvious that GOD intended to use slayers of HIS faithful to the advantage of HIS elect and HIS church.

I do wonder what the part of his curse about being "driven from the ground" might mean...although I do think that the mark of Cain is false religion, ungodly piety and idolatry.

And who would be interested in what this man thinks, who is shown to have absolutely no idea as to the truths that are revealed in the Holy Scriptures?