From Post 74
Do you agree that the ink and paper consist of the same basic particles as we find in the brain?
If so, would you say that "basic particles" provide, in themselves, the basis for consciousness? Or is it rather the specific relationships between all of these particles that provides that basis?
Things act according to their properties.
In the case of paper, we get stuff that does it one heckuva job being paper. In the case of the brain, we get stuff that does it one heckuva job being a brain.
I find your line of reasoning faulty on the basis of an incomplete
set of data. The data we do have indicates that by mucking about the brain, we can alter the state of consciousness.
What data might you present that leads us to conclude paper has consciousness?
I propose none
. I propose you can only attempt to say such as, "Well there's particles there, and particles over yonder, so consciousness oughta be in all of it." This is the problem with a comparison of paper and brain. We have a multitude of data supporting the idea that consciousness is a property, emergent or otherwise, of the brain, and I reckon one sheet of paper swearing up and down it does too.
If "particles" + "nothing else" does not equal consciousness, and if "particles" + "something else" = consciousness, then perhaps consciousness derives more from the "something else" than from the particles.
See above, where consciousness can be affected by things we do to the brain, and not one speck of data shows we can affect the 'consciousness' of a sheet of paper.
As an analogy, "rock" + "nothing else" does not equal a sculpture; but "rock" plus "applied artistic skill" = sculpture.
Your problem here then is showing us all how a god's got this great big ol' chisel.
You are comparing the known - "folks'll carve them up some stuff", with the unknown - "and don't it beat all, God's the best of us at it".
In fact, the "rock" is not at all essential to a sculpture. A sculpture can result from "applied artistic skill" plus numerous other substances--
--or even without any actual substance, as in the mere imagining of the sculpture.
And we see that many a folk'll imagine them up one fancy God.
Some say it came from Memphis down in Tennessee
Or it drifted in from Georgia about 1953
Just as long as it's greasy, as long as it's fast
As long as it's pumpin' honey, it's gonna last
It's the hillbilly rock, beat it with a drum
Playin' them guitars like shootin' from a gun
Keepin' up the rhythm, steady as a clock
Doin' a little thing called the hillbilly rock
- Marty Stuart