The Character of God

[PaxRomana]

My question is for Christians, and has 3 parts:

#1-I consider myself a rational and compassionate person. How could I, in good conscience, follow a God who orders his people to do the following?:

“Thus says Yahweh of hosts: 'I have observed what Amalek did to Israel, how he opposed him when he went up from Egypt. So then, go and attack Amalek and utterly destroy all that is his! You must not spare him, but kill both man and woman, both child and nursing infant, both ox and sheep, both camel and donkey.'�
(1 Samuel 15:2-3 LEB)

(Similar episodes of divine genocide can be found in Gen: 6, Deut: 2, 3, 7, 13, 20 & Josh: 6, 10)


#2-If God commanded you to commit an atrocity, such as murdering 'nursing infants', as he commands the ancient Hebrews in the last passage, would you obey him, and would it change your perception of his character?


3-Finally, how do you reconcile this image of a wrathful & jealous God with the impression of God one might get from reading the following verses?:

“Dear friends, let us love one another, because love is from God, and everyone who loves has been fathered by God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
(1 John 4:7-8 LEB)

“Love is patient, love is kind, love is not jealous, it does not boast, it does not become conceited, it does not behave dishonorably, it is not selfish, it does not become angry, it does not keep a record of wrongs, it does not rejoice at unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth, bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
(1 Corinthians 13:4-7 LEB)

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 67 by ttruscott]


That would make the new covenant not one wit better than the old one.

...

Jesus is Divine. His old covenant cannot contradict His new one. They are the same. The old convicted of sin; the new promised grace unto salvation from the old.

Peace, Ted

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 42 by The Me's]

... Furthermore there is child sacrifice among the Jews as well so should we commit genocide on the jews?

Let's say you were right though and they were practicing child sacrifice.

...

They did and they were judged for it:

Leviticus 20:1-5 The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Say to the people of Israel, Any one of the people of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech shall surely be put to death. The people of the land shall stone him with stones. I myself will set my face against that man and will cut him off from among his people, because he has given one of his children to Molech, to make my sanctuary unclean and to profane my holy name. And if the people of the land do at all close their eyes to that man when he gives one of his children to Molech, and do not put him to death, then I will set my face against that man and against his clan and will cut them off from among their people, him and all who follow him in whoring after Molech.

2 Kings 17:17-18 And they burned their sons and their daughters as offerings and used divination and omens and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the Lord, provoking him to anger. Therefore the Lord was very angry with Israel and removed them out of his sight. None was left but the tribe of Judah only.

Peace, Ted

Alright well I am not going to take the bibles word for it but I will again assume it is correct here.

Is it right to kill the innocent children as well?

Or the unborn children?

it seems to me the only accurate punishment would be to punish the parties committing the crime not the victims.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 67 by ttruscott]


That would make the new covenant not one wit better than the old one.

...

Jesus is Divine. His old covenant cannot contradict His new one. They are the same. The old convicted of sin; the new promised grace unto salvation from the old.

Peace, Ted

Not at all. Their was zero forgiveness for deliberate knowing sin under the old covenant. That means that however slight ones error you broke the whole of the Law if you were aware of it. However God could still hold the individual and nation accountable even if they sinned in ignorance.

Under the new covenant God would forgive those sins and ensure perfect obedience after that. That way they would no longer be under judgement and could experience all the blessings for obedience.

He never promised an atoning sacrifice that would be good for all sins before and after.

Even the NT contradicts itself on this. Otherwise the Corinthians would not have found themselves under judgement and correction.

[Ooberman]

My question is for Christians, and has 3 parts:

#1-I consider myself a rational and compassionate person. How could I, in good conscience, follow a God who orders his people to do the following?:

...

(Similar episodes of divine genocide can be found in Gen: 6, Deut: 2, 3, 7, 13, 20 & Josh: 6, 10)

...

God is love.
(1 John 4:7-8 LEB)

“Love is patient, love is kind, love is not jealous, it does not boast, it does not become conceited, it does not behave dishonorably, it is not selfish, it does not become angry, it does not keep a record of wrongs, it does not rejoice at unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth, bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
(1 Corinthians 13:4-7 LEB)

First we establish the attributes of GOD's character. Then we look at the situation to reconcile the situational evidence with HIS self revealed character.

It is symptomatic of an enslavement to sin that such a reconciliation cannot be accepted and the only position that is acceptable is that the attributes of GOD and the situation are contradictory.

Can you elaborate? I don't understand.

Knowing oneself as a rational and compassionate person doe not prove one is a rational compassionate person when compared to the source of all rationality and compassion.

The argument in here is "You can't Judge God".
But because we are rational and compassionate, we recognize rational and compassionate things. We can judge compassionate and rational acts.
Saying "if God did it, it must be Good, means this would hold among the Aztecs and any barbaric God. It makes no sense to argue it, because it's like saying:

"You think you know what Rational and Compassionate means, but you don't. The words in Supernatural Land means things completely different! Killing kids happens to be excellent if you have the right mindset."

We are asking about the Character of God, and all we have is the universe to judge It by. If it is true about the actions of the OT and what people did in God's name, it seems like a God we wouldn't relish having. It sounds like the kind of God a War Lord would have, especially one who was a slave with a chip on his shoulder.

It doesn't seem to be the God that created this Beautiful Universe. Certainly not a God of Love.


Love should never look like killing children.

(Unless Christianity is true, then every kid you kill goes straight to Heaven and they will never have to worry about becoming an atheist)

Suffering on earth does not prove a lack of love in GOD. No innocents suffer. Only sinners suffer. No suffering is more that the person's sin has brought upon them.

Everyone suffers because everyone gets hurt, loses a loved one, gets a broken heart.

We know this already, and that can happen without divine explanations.

You have yet to demonstrate any of us are guilty, or innocent, of ANYTHING in the Celestial Judge's Mind.

You have your religious belief - but this is a debate site. Please debate.

A suffering Christian asks for help to repent knowing that suffering indicates a refusal to be holy. A non-believer who suffers attacks GOD for being uncaring, inadequate to stop the suffering or cruel and malevolent.

Peace, Ted

Non-believers aren't attacking God. They are attacking what your Brain thinks God is.