Third level of mormon heaven

[goodwithoutgod]

I was wondering if someone could expand on this, or tell me if I got it wrong. From my understanding;

In Mormonism, men and women have the potential of becoming gods. President Lorenzo Snow said, "As god once was, man is. As God is, man may become." In order to reach this exalted state of godhood, a person must first become a good Mormon, pay a full ten percent tithe to the Mormon church, follow various laws and ordinances of the church, and be found worthy. At this point, they receive a temple recommend, whereupon the Mormon is allowed to enter their sacred temples in order to go through a set of secret rituals: baptism for the dead, celestial marriage, and various oaths of secrecy and commitment. Additionally, four secret handshakes are taught so the believing Mormon, upon entering the third level of Mormon heaven, can shake hands with god in a certain pattern. This celestial ritual is for the purpose of permitting entrance into the highest level of heaven.3 For those who achieve this highest of heavens, exaltation to godhood awaits them. Then he or she will be permitted to have his or her own planet and be the god of his own world and the Mormon system will be expanded to other planets.

Is this oversimplification? Exaggeration? Completely wrong? I really want to know because i would hate to misrepresent someones belief in a discussion.

[goodwithoutgod]

Magical underwear....

From Ex-Mormon (anonymous posting):
"It is doubtful that most non-Mormons have any idea that Mormons wear "sacred" or secret underwear. There is nothing in their life that would equate to wearing regulation underwear and the fear, guilt, keeping up appearances, sneaking to take them off, not telling a spouse, associated with wearing them.

Just the idea that human beings are not acceptable unless dressed in regulation underwear must seem absolutely bizarre to outsiders.

How crazy is it to be afraid to take off your underwear, be seen not wearing it, and how a spouse has to power to destroy your personal temple clothing if you are not "worthy" in their eyes.

I maintain that the most powerful thing Mormonism does to control it's members by fear, guilt, and shame is the regulation underwear!

The impact is so powerful, the worse kind of entrapment, that the only way for me to deal with the insidious, control and mistreatment is with humor. I can look back and have a good laugh at how silly and goofy I was and how ridiculous I looked standing in front of the mirror in that silly old fashioned underwear!

The major thing that sets Mormons apart from all other religions is the regulation underwear.

What we will do to be acceptable in our social approval group is unlimited.

Their power is so subtle that taking them off permanently is not only psychologically difficult, it is physically difficult as well. The combination of those two factors is what gives Mormonism egregious, unfathomable, total control over it's members. If you tell a Mormon they are controlled by their underwear, they will vehemently deny it."
In order for a Mormon to get into the Celestial Kingdom, a Mormon must take out their endowments. In order to take out their endowments, they must be temple worthy. In order to be temple worthy, they must pay 10% of their income to the Mormon Church. In order to keep the temple covenants, they must wear the magical underwear called "garments". A mormon can only buy their magic underwear from the Mormon Church.

[help3434]

[Replying to post 11 by goodwithoutgod]

Not sure why some people insist on deriding it by calling it "magic". The LDS church as far as I know never calls is magic. Not sure what this thing about spouses destroying underwear or hiding from spouses comes from either.

[goodwithoutgod]

[Replying to post 11 by goodwithoutgod]

Not sure why some people insist on deriding it by calling it "magic". The LDS church as far as I know never calls is magic. Not sure what this thing about spouses destroying underwear or hiding from spouses comes from either.

okay, It isn't magical, but it is required to get into one of the three heavens that Joseph Smith made up. You know, in our PC society, part of the problem is we embrace people's rights to believe the most ridiculous things, and I understand that is a precious right of individual choice. However, if tomorrow the newly formed Church Of Purple Unicorn was to come together, and in our tenets all followers must wear a pink thong, bunny ears and a purple horse tail covered in glitter at all times...I would hope you would point and say, now that is ridiculous. I have the right to prance around in my bunny ears and sparkly tail, but a reasonable person would giggle at the sight at the very least.

on the hiding it from others thing, my source is http://mormoncurtain.com/topic_garments_section1.html

[Robert H]

[Replying to post 9 by goodwithoutgod]

You really didn't have to copy and paste all of that. You could have just put a link to the Mormon Curtain website. I have delved into some of that history and there are a lot of conflicting stories about a lot of things. I don't have a need to defend the Mormons, but I wanted to clarify some of the things you said in your earlier post, because they are a misunderstood group. If you had done the same about the Catholics or the Baptists, I would have responded in the same matter.

Anyway, the Mormon Curtain website is written by an ex-Mormon who is just an embittered person who couldn't rise up through the Mormon leadership ladder. Be careful when you read things written by people that are motivated by hate and revenge, as their goal is just to make you as miserable as they are. There are credible websites who can just state some facts and their opinions without the malice. Search those out.

A lot of things you copied and pasted are similar in all forms of Christianity. For example, the idea of someone having an godly experience and then writing about it years later is the major theme of the New Testament. Nobody wrote down what Jesus was doing while it was happening. It was at least 30 years later before anyone decided to write and when they did write they are giving exact quotes and circumstances. That it itself is highly suspect. Have you ever read the accounts of the resurrection? Anyone who knows nothing about religion and had not been brainwashed into thinking Christianity was great and that the Bible was the word of God - anyone like this would read the accounts of the resurrection and laugh. It completely contradicts itself. But the question is, does everyone who tells a story of an event tell it the exact same way every single time? When Paul writes of his conversion, he tells it two different ways. But the point is, someone writing down an experience a few years after it happened is a very "Christian" thing to do.

With that said, yes I think the Mormons put a lot of faith in the story of Joe Smith seeing God and then receiving a book by an angel. They want to believe that and they claim to have spiritual experiences through the Holy Ghost that convinces them that it is true. And so they act accordingly, they become Christian, they change their lives for good, and they make great citizens of every nation that they are in. They aren't any more crazy that Christians who think that Jesus reappeared after being killed for his heresy, or that stars appear to lead shepherds to a barn, or that whales swallow men and take them to the shore. They are all ridiculous and they fight with each other over whose story is more credible!

The fact is, most Christians are good people and in my experience, Mormons are near the top of that Christian list. But the pointing fingers at each other needs to stop. I responded to your post because you seemed clueless to what Mormons thought and I wanted to help you with your dad. You were just baiting people though.

[goodwithoutgod]

[Replying to post 9 by goodwithoutgod]

You really didn't have to copy and paste all of that. You could have just put a link to the Mormon Curtain website. I have delved into some of that history and there are a lot of conflicting stories about a lot of things. I don't have a need to defend the Mormons, but I wanted to clarify some of the things you said in your earlier post, because they are a misunderstood group. If you had done the same about the Catholics or the Baptists, I would have responded in the same matter.

Anyway, the Mormon Curtain website is written by an ex-Mormon who is just an embittered person who couldn't rise up through the Mormon leadership ladder. Be careful when you read things written by people that are motivated by hate and revenge, as their goal is just to make you as miserable as they are. There are credible websites who can just state some facts and their opinions without the malice. Search those out.

A lot of things you copied and pasted are similar in all forms of Christianity. For example, the idea of someone having an godly experience and then writing about it years later is the major theme of the New Testament. Nobody wrote down what Jesus was doing while it was happening. It was at least 30 years later before anyone decided to write and when they did write they are giving exact quotes and circumstances. That it itself is highly suspect. Have you ever read the accounts of the resurrection? Anyone who knows nothing about religion and had not been brainwashed into thinking Christianity was great and that the Bible was the word of God - anyone like this would read the accounts of the resurrection and laugh. It completely contradicts itself. But the question is, does everyone who tells a story of an event tell it the exact same way every single time? When Paul writes of his conversion, he tells it two different ways. But the point is, someone writing down an experience a few years after it happened is a very "Christian" thing to do.

With that said, yes I think the Mormons put a lot of faith in the story of Joe Smith seeing God and then receiving a book by an angel. They want to believe that and they claim to have spiritual experiences through the Holy Ghost that convinces them that it is true. And so they act accordingly, they become Christian, they change their lives for good, and they make great citizens of every nation that they are in. They aren't any more crazy that Christians who think that Jesus reappeared after being killed for his heresy, or that stars appear to lead shepherds to a barn, or that whales swallow men and take them to the shore. They are all ridiculous and they fight with each other over whose story is more credible!

The fact is, most Christians are good people and in my experience, Mormons are near the top of that Christian list. But the pointing fingers at each other needs to stop. I responded to your post because you seemed clueless to what Mormons thought and I wanted to help you with your dad. You were just baiting people though.

Thanks for replying.

I copied and pasted that little bit because that website has a huge amount of info, and I pasted one tiny bit of the ....special beliefs of the mormon religion.

I appreciated your original post, I was legitimately asking for validation from a mormon, or someone in the know. I don't take everything I find on the internet at face value, although this site seemed to have a lot of info that I have cross checked. The last thing I ever want to do is have bad gouge (sorry military term) bad info in my databases.

I completely understand the site in question is an ex mormon, so one has to double check the info, which I was trying to do here as well as other places. However, just because he is an ex mormon, doesnt immediately invalidate his info, no more than ex scientologists who come out and expose the inner workings of the cult are wrong either. The info must be vetted of course.

The fact that the musings of the mormon religion are based and parallel jadeo christian story lines is irrelevant. Two different delusions cannot validate each other. All of the Abrahamic myths require faith, in fact ALL religions require faith. Faith is:

- strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

- firm belief in something for which there is no proof.

- While some have argued that faith is opposed to reason, proponents of faith argue that the proper domain of faith concerns questions which cannot be settled by evidence.

So the fact it is somehow tied to other parallel faith claims by other religions, or is similar etc etc, has about as much validity as saying the moon is made of blue cheese because I read it in a book.

"They are all ridiculous and they fight with each other over whose story is more credible"

- I couldnt have said it any better.

"The fact is, most Christians are good people and in my experience, Mormons are near the top of that Christian list."

- I would also agree with that. They are delusional, but good people in general....well in theory anyway

Delusion: A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.

Now when it comes to mormons, I have found they to be the best working religion, good solid people taking care of each other. What I attack is the lunacy of the religion itself. Good people, will be good people, with or without religion. I would submit to you that these "solid good people" wold be solid good people even without the needless delusion they clutch, ESPECIALLY as ridiculous as the mormon one is. This isn't opinion, this is fact.. Golden plates and secret angels, the whole timeline issues, it is just a hot mess of BS. My parents are mormons on the one side (my parents divorced 32 years ago, remarried, and now are both religious leaders, my father and step mother are mormons, my mother is a Pentecostal minister. Breaks my heart they subject themselves to such stupidity. It gives them comfort, but that isnt the answer. Discussion about the alleged benefits of faith are red herrings, distracting one from the main issue..whether or not faith can reliably help one to arrive at the truth...the answer to that is no. Because what is faith again? The firm belief in something without evidence...which is a failed epistemology.

It wasn't bait, I wanted validation of what i had understood to be some of the more ridiculous claims of that religion.

[Guardiands]

The idea that men can become gods is to me the most realistic option we have. I like to think that with technological and scientific progress we might progress to a point where we essentially are godlike and colonize the galaxies.

Typing that seems really weird, and that seems sci fi, but the fact that such intelligent life has evolved on this world, I hate the thought of us just being stuck on this rock and dying off. I hope science advances to the point we can go forth and populate surrounding systems, and in that sense be close to gods.

So the idea that perhaps, if mormonism is right, god was once just a man like us that progressed, isn't too far fetched from the only way I see that men can be like gods.

As for handshakes and garments, a lot of that is symbolic. It doesn't necessarily have to have a literal meaning attached to it. Wear your garments to remind you to be good, handshakes as the same as it has always meant, an oath, a promise, to seal the deal.

[goodwithoutgod]

The idea that men can become gods is to me the most realistic option we have. I like to think that with technological and scientific progress we might progress to a point where we essentially are godlike and colonize the galaxies.

Typing that seems really weird, and that seems sci fi, but the fact that such intelligent life has evolved on this world, I hate the thought of us just being stuck on this rock and dying off. I hope science advances to the point we can go forth and populate surrounding systems, and in that sense be close to gods.

So the idea that perhaps, if mormonism is right, god was once just a man like us that progressed, isn't too far fetched from the only way I see that men can be like gods.

As for handshakes and garments, a lot of that is symbolic. It doesn't necessarily have to have a literal meaning attached to it. Wear your garments to remind you to be good, handshakes as the same as it has always meant, an oath, a promise, to seal the deal.

well in actuality, in the mormon faith, these secret handshakes aren't a club thing to acknowledge one another, that would be fine. No, these are so you know how to properly give god the right handshakes so he allows you to go to the higher heavens, as I understand it. You ca't make this stuff up....um, well no, apparently you can.

[Nickman]

[Replying to post 17 by goodwithoutgod]

The handshakes or tokens are as you say. As a former member and temple attendee, you use these tokens when you meet God at the veil. There are three tokens that you must give in accordance with questions asked pertaining to them. I remember the first time I went through the temple, it freaked me out. I felt that I was in a cult.

[Nickman]

Here is something funny to watch about Mormon garments.

[Youtube][/YouTube]