Danmark wrote:
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Thanks Ted. That was an excellent explanation of that particular aspect of Christian Theology. Well done.
However, I'm buying neither a jot or a tittle of it. To me, that theology is an excellent example of the kind of contortions one must go thru to try to make sense of something when one starts out with an absurd and absolute description of this imagined being, God. It makes much more sense to simply reject the idea and the impossibilities and contradictions it requires.
If I had that luxury, maybe, but GOD vexed me and harassed me and shook me like a dog toy until I repented and quit trying to ignore HIM and what HE wanted from me.
Danmark wrote:BTW, the notion of humans being created so they can exercise free choice about whether or not to believe in and love god, also makes no sense because the angels already had such a choice, as Lucifer demonstrated.
Yes they have free will and never joined in the Satanic rebellion but some of those angels did rebel against GOD when HE started to set HIS plan for the judgment of the fallen ones. The difference between these two groups is that the satanic never ever did bow to YHWH as their GOD before they became evil but the sinful elect did accept HIM at first then rejected HIM over HIS plan of judgment.
That which makes both the groups the same is that all sinners, both the eternally sinful and those temporarily sinful able to be saved are born as humans to live together until the sinful elect good seed mature in their faith and holiness, stop interfering with HIS plans for the tares and then the harvest as per the parable of the good seed,
Matt 13:36-43.
Those spirits who never sinned were chosen to work for GOD as HIS messengers from which we get the word angel.
Danmark wrote:Further it makes no sense in terms of morality, since if those who choose God will do so because they see it is in their long term self interest; in other words, if one believes in God, than it is a selfish or self maximizing decision to follow him.
On the idea alone, I agree but I disagree with the word selfish because of the bad connotations it has. To choose in one's self interest is not to be necessarily selfish if part of the self interest is to stay with and be in the community of your friends.
When we were offered the promise of heaven for accepting YHWH as our GOD and warned of hell being the natural consequence of rejecting HIM as GOD and therefore HIS promises too, we in fact were being asked to decide where we saw our best chance for a perfect life with the most happiness as we could see it from all of the evidence. Did we think heaven sounded like a good enough reason to put our faith in HIM as divine without proof just to get it or not. Self interest but not necessarily selfishness.
Danmark wrote:And I'm still waiting to hear your reasoning on why simply believing in the 'correct' answer can be the basis for 'good,' while not believing can be a basis for judging someone as 'evil.'
Well, I've explained it many times - I'm sorry you missed it because it is quite long, sigh.
It has to do with the enslaving addictive nature of evil. Once someone sins, they
are addicted to feelings of power and freedom from GOD which bolsters their own self aggrandizement so that given a choice, they will reject GOD at every turn. (I know this from personal experience...) They can never break that addiction on their own but only with GOD's help.
Those people who rejected HIM as their GOD and so rejected HIS promises of heaven by salvation from their sin (because they could not accept that any being could be greater than themselves or more worthy of praise than themselves so they concluded that YHWH must be a liar and a false god with no power to fulfill HIS promises or the warnings of hell) self created themselves as eternally evil.
A major tenant of free will is that if you choose it by free will, GOD will let you have it and not interfere (unless it conflicts with a previous choice) or where is the freeness of your choice? Therefore as outside of HIS promise of salvation, their choice to reject HIM as their GOD self created themselves as eternally evil.
So it is not as simple as saying how can they be eternally punished for not believing when the nature of their not believing is found in their eternal sinfulness and hatred for and aggression towards GOD and HIS church if the restrainer does not hold them back.
They are banished from created reality not for the sin of not believing but to remove a self created eternal evil from HIS creation. Non-belief identifies them only on earth (though all sinners are non-believers at first) since in sheol, all folk, sinners and non-sinners alike are all believers knowing the truth about YHWH's divinity and their fate with HIM or to be banished.
Knowing the truth of HIS divinity and power is not enough to get them to break their addiction to sin and repent. Knowing Christ's loving sacrifice is not enough to get them to break their addiction and repent. Therefore, since they reject GOD ever interfering with their lives, there can only be one answer to their relentless evil, banishment from GOD's created reality where the heavenly experience will take place.
Peace, Ted
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.