Can the world be entirely reduced to material objects ?

[Bugmaster]

Materialism

Materialism is the worldview that, ultimately, everything in the world is made of material things. Things which are traditionally identified as immaterial -- such as minds, souls, abstract concepts -- either do not exist at all, or are our mis-interpretations of material things.

By "material", I mean, "objects that can be observed through evidence, directly or indirectly". Thus, rocks are material, because you can touch them. Electrons are material too; you can't touch them, but you can measure their current. Virtual particles are also material: you can detect the radiations they emit as half of them fall into black holes.

Numbers, on the other hand, are not material. You can have two apples, or two volts, but you can never measure or detect a "two". Thus, a materialist (such as myself) would argue that numbers are a human invention, and do not objectively exist.

Alternatives

Some alternatives to materialism include the very popular dualism: the notion that material things (such as rocks) exist, but spiritual or mental or Platonic things (such as souls) exist also; and the somewhat less popular idealism: the notion that only spiritual things exist (such as mathematical concepts), and material things are just illusions. QED has proposed on this thread another worldview: that both spiritual things and material things are illusiory manifestations of a third substance (which I have dubbed QEDium).

Previous Arguments

Harvey1 has argued on this thread that materialism cannot be true; unfortunately, that entire thread got a bit off-topic, and I lost track of it when punctuation replaced grammar. I have ended up arguing that the human minds specifically can be reduced to material components on this thread of mine (though that was irrelevant to the thread's main topic). And of course, Harvey1 started a new thread defending mind-body dualism specifically, though the jury is still out on that one.

For the purposes of this thread, though, I am less concerned with mind-body dualism specifically. My topic is twofold:

1). Is it logically possible that materialism is true ?
2). Assuming (1) is true, are we justified in believing that materialism is most likely true ?

[Goat]

Goat In Dualism, I would say that 'Spirit' and 'Soul' would be dualism.

This is a particular type of dualism. There can be dualism without spirits or souls.
There is duality of mind and body. Typically this type of duality does lead to a belief in souls, but not necessarily.
If I see myself as separate from other objects or people in the world I am experiencing dualism. If I see any material thing separate from another material thing, I have a dualistic point of view.
[Me<>it], [I<>they], [Archer<>arrow], [marksman<>bullet], [Tennis player<>tennis ball], [frog<>pond] are examples of dualism, particularly as taught in Zen, but in a broader sense as well.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~
In the example of QED’s Corvette, I would say the “spirit” of the vette is connection of the commonality of viewer and object. The viewer feels they have a special connection with the Corvette. They understand or observe things about it that distinguishes it from a Chevette, or other vehicles. They understand things about it that others might not. They share in the being of the Corvette.
If someone is completely disconnected from an object (experiencing duality), there will be no perception of spirit.
The closer relationship we have with a, material object, the more likely we are to have the feeling it has spirit, in QED’s sense.
If the material object is living, and we see a great deal of this non-spiritual spirit, we might make the leap to the spiritual. This leap would be driven by emotion rather than reason.

I look at the issue of mind/body in a different manner than you do. In my point of view, the mind is the result of the action of a specific part of the body (the brain). It is bound up with the brain, and does not exist seperate from the brain. It is to the brain as lungs are to breathing, or how seeing is bound up with the eyes.

I suppose it all depends on what your definitions of 'spirit' and 'soul' is. In the case of the corvette, the 'spirit'/'soul' is the emotional response that someone has when viewing that car. That is a response that is part of the action of the brain, and still is caused by the physcial.

If you talk about an 'eternal soul' and an 'eternal' spirit that is seperate from the body/mind, that would be something else entirely. A soul that surives the death of the body/brain would be , in my opinon, the dualistic concept. If you are talking about an emotional response to an object/curcumstance, that is a reaction that has a physical component at it's core.

[BeHereNow]

goat I look at the issue of mind/body in a different manner than you do. In my point of view, the mind is the result of the action of a specific part of the body (the brain). It is bound up with the brain, and does not exist seperate from the brain. It is to the brain as lungs are to breathing, or how seeing is bound up with the eyes.

You and I have no disagreement about the brain>mind relationship. I agree with your concept of brain>mind, but then we are not dualists.
Among those I would consider dualists, are those who consider the mind independent of the brain. They believe in out of body experiences, for example. The mind/consciousness separates itself from the body, as if independent.
I believe you and I would agree that such a view is dualistic, and yet involves no spirits.
If you do not consider this dualism, we do indeed disagree. Our disagreement may be the meaning of "spirits", rather than dualism.

[Curious]

I can bend my mind with a spoon.

Very good. This is not only very amusing but incredibly apposite.

[Cathar1950]

Show me a box of ice cream and a spoon and my mind is bent on getting it out. But OccamsRazor told me there are no such things as spoons so I am tossing all mine out and getting sporks.