Little Lucy was told by her mother to make her bed. Lucy didn't listen to her mother and decided to go play outside instead. Lucy committed a sin
Timmy wanted to have a cookie but his mother said no. Timmy sneaked into the kitchen and grabbed one out of the cookie jar. Timmy committed a sin
Billy's friend Jimmy brought his new Megaman action figure to school. Billy's family is poor and can't afford to buy Billy any toys. Billy covets Jimmy's new toy. Billy committed a sin
Do these three deeds deserve death?
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death
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Re: Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death
Post #2I don’t think those are necessarily sins, because I have understood sin actually means that person rejects God. It is possible that those people did not reject God.Justin108 wrote: ...
Do these three deeds deserve death?
If I would be judge, I would forgive those actions and tell them that it is not right. If they would continue to do wrong things and prove that they are not righteous, then they would not get the eternal life, if we believe this:
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46
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Re: Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death
Post #3That's kind of the stickler isn't it?1213 wrote: if we believe this:
Apparently we can choose to believe whatever we so desire.
What if I choose to believe this:
Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
This doesn't require that I be righteous. All that is required here is that I don't judge others, I don't condemn others, and I forgive others.
Apparently as long as I forgive others I'll be forgiven and therefore it won't matter whether I'm righteous or not, precisely because I'll be forgiven.
Also according to this verse I cannot be condemned if I have not condemned others. So apparently it would be impossible for me to be condemned if I have not condemned others.
In fact, according to this verse, I won't even be judged at all. It clearly states that if I judge not I will not be judged. Therefore unless this verse is a lie, I won't even be judged on "judgement day". There will be no reason to judge me since, according to this verse, I will not be judged at all since I have not judged others.
So anytime we say, "If we believe this,....", it isn't very meaningful when referencing the Bible since depending on which parts of the Bible we actually believe we end up with different outcomes.
No, of course not. The Bible is clearly not rational.Justin108 wrote: Do these three deeds deserve death?
[center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
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Re: Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death
Post #4[Replying to post 1 by Justin108]
Depending on the character growth each child experiences from that action they did earn death.
Learning that disobedience is OK can make life much harder.
Stealing is another selfish move and life is not selfish.
Learning jealousy is also a move towards death. Being jealous all the time is a bad way to live.
When God said the wages of sin are death we observe that truth in all 3 examples.
Depending on the character growth each child experiences from that action they did earn death.
Learning that disobedience is OK can make life much harder.
Stealing is another selfish move and life is not selfish.
Learning jealousy is also a move towards death. Being jealous all the time is a bad way to live.
When God said the wages of sin are death we observe that truth in all 3 examples.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
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Re: Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death
Post #5imCoJustin108 wrote: Little Lucy was told by her mother to make her bed. Lucy didn't listen to her mother and decided to go play outside instead. Lucy committed a sin
Timmy wanted to have a cookie but his mother said no. Timmy sneaked into the kitchen and grabbed one out of the cookie jar. Timmy committed a sin
Billy's friend Jimmy brought his new Megaman action figure to school. Billy's family is poor and can't afford to buy Billy any toys. Billy covets Jimmy's new toy. Billy committed a sin
Do these three deeds deserve death?
No sin on earth is judged to be deemed worthy of death but only of punishment. The sin that damns someone is the sin of rejecting YHWH as Divine and rejecting HIS promises of election to heaven by means of salvation from all our sins.
The sins of the sinful elect and the damned are of equal disvalue, that is, they are both of ultimate disvalue in HIS sight. But the damned are banished to hell because by their free will they rejected HIS offer of salvation from any and all future sin while the sinful elect are redeemed, reborn and forgiven because by their free will they DID accept HIS offer of salvation.
Thus it is NOT the sin that damns a person but who the person is that is sinning the sin, that is, a sinful elect person under the promise of salvation will be saved but a sinful person who rejected HIS divinity and promise of salvation is doomed.
Peace, Ted
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
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Re: Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death
Post #6.
Kindly demonstrate that this claim is anything more than the opinion of a religious group (and their favored literature).ttruscott wrote:
Thus it is NOT the sin that damns a person but who the person is that is sinning the sin, that is, a sinful elect person under the promise of salvation will be saved but a sinful person who rejected HIS divinity and promise of salvation is doomed.
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Re: Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death
Post #7Little Lucy, Timmy, and Billy will all die.Justin108 wrote: Little Lucy was told by her mother to make her bed. Lucy didn't listen to her mother and decided to go play outside instead. Lucy committed a sin
Timmy wanted to have a cookie but his mother said no. Timmy sneaked into the kitchen and grabbed one out of the cookie jar. Timmy committed a sin
Billy's friend Jimmy brought his new Megaman action figure to school. Billy's family is poor and can't afford to buy Billy any toys. Billy covets Jimmy's new toy. Billy committed a sin
Do these three deeds deserve death?
Their deaths will very probably not be caused by the events you mentioned.
They will die because they are mortal humans.
Re: Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death
Post #8You're editing the scenario. The children don't necessarily turn into rebels and thieves. Romans 6:23 claim that these acts alone are sufficient to earn death. It doesn't depend on whether they end up as vile criminals. According to Romans, the moment these deeds are committed, these children deserve to die. If God commanded these children be stoned to death, would you be ok with that?Wootah wrote: [Replying to post 1 by Justin108]
Depending on the character growth each child experiences from that action they did earn death.
Learning that disobedience is OK can make life much harder.
Stealing is another selfish move and life is not selfish.
Learning jealousy is also a move towards death. Being jealous all the time is a bad way to live.
When God said the wages of sin are death we observe that truth in all 3 examples.
Re: Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death
Post #9Look, Ted. Your posts are worthless to me. You made up your own religion. None of this can be backed by scripture. I'm debating Christianity, not your new-age imaginingsttruscott wrote:imCoJustin108 wrote: Little Lucy was told by her mother to make her bed. Lucy didn't listen to her mother and decided to go play outside instead. Lucy committed a sin
Timmy wanted to have a cookie but his mother said no. Timmy sneaked into the kitchen and grabbed one out of the cookie jar. Timmy committed a sin
Billy's friend Jimmy brought his new Megaman action figure to school. Billy's family is poor and can't afford to buy Billy any toys. Billy covets Jimmy's new toy. Billy committed a sin
Do these three deeds deserve death?
No sin on earth is judged to be deemed worthy of death but only of punishment. The sin that damns someone is the sin of rejecting YHWH as Divine and rejecting HIS promises of election to heaven by means of salvation from all our sins.
The sins of the sinful elect and the damned are of equal disvalue, that is, they are both of ultimate disvalue in HIS sight. But the damned are banished to hell because by their free will they rejected HIS offer of salvation from any and all future sin while the sinful elect are redeemed, reborn and forgiven because by their free will they DID accept HIS offer of salvation.
Thus it is NOT the sin that damns a person but who the person is that is sinning the sin, that is, a sinful elect person under the promise of salvation will be saved but a sinful person who rejected HIS divinity and promise of salvation is doomed.
Peace, Ted
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Re: Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death
Post #10Context is important.Justin108 wrote: Little Lucy was told by her mother to make her bed. Lucy didn't listen to her mother and decided to go play outside instead. Lucy committed a sin
Timmy wanted to have a cookie but his mother said no. Timmy sneaked into the kitchen and grabbed one out of the cookie jar. Timmy committed a sin
Billy's friend Jimmy brought his new Megaman action figure to school. Billy's family is poor and can't afford to buy Billy any toys. Billy covets Jimmy's new toy. Billy committed a sin
Do these three deeds deserve death?
Rom. 6:20-23 "When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of ? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
This is not talking about social justice, but cause and effect. Each of the examples above reinforce in the child that the action is acceptable. If the child continues in the activity, without correction, the child will develop a dependency on that behavior. Also, even if corrected, the child can develop resentment to avoid accepting responsibility. These two can ultimately result in death. However, if one accepts the promise that Adonai(Yah) saves(shua) and follows the example of the one who bore that name, on can break the cycles of habit and guilt.